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US immigration breaking up families

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should illegal families be separated

Yes
123
30%
No
254
62%
Not Sure
30
7%
 
Total votes : 407

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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:50 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Jacobin, your opinions on killing rich people and those in government has been clear in the past, therefore you obviously support it across the board.

My opinions on killing the uncooperative in a revolution and overthrowing oppressive governments haven't changed, despite your attempts to portray me as an anarchist. :)

t. Lenin
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:My opinions on killing the uncooperative in a revolution and overthrowing oppressive governments haven't changed, despite your attempts to portray me as an anarchist. :)

t. Lenin

The only part of that I object to is that I'm more of a Kerensky supporter.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Ifreann wrote:It's edgy to think that a Nazi soldier was a piece of shit?

Weird.

Actually, he wasn't. The country he was fighting for was run by one. But he wasn't.

It is perfectly accurate to refer to the soldiers of Nazi Germany as Nazi soldiers, regardless of your great-grandfathers personal beliefs. And to forestall further threadjacking, I don't especially care what those beliefs were.


The Parkus Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm sure there are problems with foster care in America, because there are problems with everything in America, but foster care isn't jail, isn't prison, and isn't a tent city in Texas in the summer.

That's correct, children charged with crimes are typically sent to different accommodations.

And the children Trump is having detained at the border aren't being charged with crimes.

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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 pm

Liriena wrote:
Ieskarios wrote:Does the U.S. really need more people already being crammed into its bloated cities?

Malthusianism is such a stale old meme.

Yes and no. On a major scale, yes, but obviously producing children you can't support, will have harmful repercussions. On a micro level, it can hold true.
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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:54 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Benuty wrote:
Apparently, context is dead so therefore I will increase this to the maximum size, and leave this for those who are the treasured alumni of the school of assumption.

"I'm not a Nazi, I'm just fighting for Nazis"

What a huge difference.

You would literally destroy the Roman republic in just a single term as consul....so I don't think you have room to judge.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:56 pm

Ifreann wrote:And the children Trump is having detained at the border aren't being charged with crimes.

That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.
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Benuty
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Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:56 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And the children Trump is having detained at the border aren't being charged with crimes.

That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.

No, it would be harsh if we just dumped them in the Darien gap, and left them to die.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
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San Lumen
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:56 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And the children Trump is having detained at the border aren't being charged with crimes.

That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.


How about not being Nazi like and not separating them therefore sparing traumatizing these innocent children and giving them nightmares and affecting their well being?
Last edited by San Lumen on Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:58 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:"I'm not a Nazi, I'm just fighting for Nazis"

What a huge difference.

Fighting for Nazi Germany.

Defending his country even though he disagreed with it.

Nazis were disgusting. What they did was abominable. What my great grandfather did was neither.


Did he ever tell you what role he took on during the war (infantryman, engineer, medic, etc.)? That'd give a better idea of figuring out things; AFAIK, the rear echelon troops of Nazi Germany were generally worse in regards to war crimes than the frontline combat troops.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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The Parkus Empire
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Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:58 pm

Benuty wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.

No, it would be harsh if we just dumped them in the Darien gap, and left them to die.

Your standards of harsh, Benuty, have become calloused and cold, like rough feet stuck with a short blanket.
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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:59 pm

San Lumen wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.


How about not being Nazi like and not separating them therefore sparing traumatizing these innocent children and giving them nightmares and affecting their well being?

Incarceration always involves separation. Maybe there should be visits arranged? If that is what you're suggesting, I agree.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:00 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And the children Trump is having detained at the border aren't being charged with crimes.

That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.

If only there was some course of action here that wasn't harsh.

Like letting families detained near the border stay together.

If only that could be possible.

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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:01 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:That's correct, because that would seem a bit harsh here. We could of course simply send them back to Mexico alone, but that would be even harsher.

If only there was some course of action here that wasn't harsh.

Like letting families detained near the border stay together.

If only that could be possible.

If you want to completely revise how our country handles incarcerations. Normally we segregate men from women, and adults from children.
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Conserative Morality
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Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:01 pm

Geneviev wrote:Fighting for Nazi Germany.

Defending his country even though he disagreed with it.

Nazis were disgusting. What they did was abominable. What my great grandfather did was neither.

Again the "Disagreement" line.

"I disagree with murdering Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals en masse... but I'll still fight for lebensraum!"

Tell me more about how invading other countries is defending your own.

No one wants to think bad of people they care about, but that doesn't change facts.
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Benuty
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Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:01 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Benuty wrote:No, it would be harsh if we just dumped them in the Darien gap, and left them to die.

Your standards of harsh, Benuty, have become calloused and cold, like rough feet stuck with a short blanket.

Tends to happen when you have the greater good in mind.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:02 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:If you want to completely revise how our country handles incarcerations. Normally we segregate men from women, and adults from children.

You know, before a few weeks ago, it was policy to detain those caught crossing the border illegally, rather than throwing them in the Federal clink.

But I guess it's more trouble to change a policy of six weeks than sixteen years. Six weeks is a much stronger tradition, because it hurts people more. That's what it's all about, after all.
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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Benuty wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Your standards of harsh, Benuty, have become calloused and cold, like rough feet stuck with a short blanket.

Tends to happen when you have the greater good in mind.

Isn't that the truth, though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:04 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Fighting for Nazi Germany.

Defending his country even though he disagreed with it.

Nazis were disgusting. What they did was abominable. What my great grandfather did was neither.

Again the "Disagreement" line.

"I disagree with murdering Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals en masse... but I'll still fight for lebensraum!"

Tell me more about how invading other countries is defending your own.

No one wants to think bad of people they care about, but that doesn't change facts.


I was gonna say that maybe he was Volkssturm, but then again, he got injured in Russia.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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The Parkus Empire
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Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:05 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:If you want to completely revise how our country handles incarcerations. Normally we segregate men from women, and adults from children.

You know, before a few weeks ago, it was policy to detain those caught crossing the border illegally, rather than throwing them in the Federal clink.

But I guess it's more trouble to change a policy of six weeks than sixteen years. Six weeks is a much stronger tradition, because it hurts people more. That's what it's all about, after all.

Certainly, that's what deterrent is all about. There is, as it stands, not a very strong incentive not to cross illegally. California is offering sanctuary and protection from the Federal government to anyone who makes it across, and several times illegal immigrants have been granted amnesty en masse. There is, as it stands, enormous incentive to cross illegally, hence an increase in the deterrent.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:10 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If only there was some course of action here that wasn't harsh.

Like letting families detained near the border stay together.

If only that could be possible.

If you want to completely revise how our country handles incarcerations. Normally we segregate men from women, and adults from children.

Or the President could just tell CBP to let families detained near the border stay together.

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:12 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:You know, before a few weeks ago, it was policy to detain those caught crossing the border illegally, rather than throwing them in the Federal clink.

But I guess it's more trouble to change a policy of six weeks than sixteen years. Six weeks is a much stronger tradition, because it hurts people more. That's what it's all about, after all.

Certainly, that's what deterrent is all about. There is, as it stands, not a very strong incentive not to cross illegally. California is offering sanctuary and protection from the Federal government to anyone who makes it across, and several times illegal immigrants have been granted amnesty en masse. There is, as it stands, enormous incentive to cross illegally, hence an increase in the deterrent.

Don't forget that in addition to "deterrence" Trump is holding these kids hostage to try and get the Democrats to vote to fund his wall.

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San Lumen
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:12 pm

Anyone defending this barbarism needs to watch this. I could not say it better myself. If a Holocaust survivor is calling the actions of this administration Nazi like then they are.

ICE and Border Patrol should be defying orders to separate families and place children in interment camp like faculties

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/03/2 ... m-sot.kovr
Last edited by San Lumen on Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:22 pm

San Lumen wrote:Anyone defending this barbarism needs to watch this. I could not say it better myself. If a Holocaust survivor is calling the actions of this administration Nazi like then they are.

ICE and Border Patrol should be defying orders to separate families and place children in interment camp like faculties

Which they won't do, for reason including, but not limited to, the fact that a lot of them are probably loving running these concentration camps.

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:23 pm

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Anyone defending this barbarism needs to watch this. I could not say it better myself. If a Holocaust survivor is calling the actions of this administration Nazi like then they are.

ICE and Border Patrol should be defying orders to separate families and place children in interment camp like faculties

Which they won't do, for reason including, but not limited to, the fact that a lot of them are probably loving running these concentration camps.

Which is probably true considering their are recordings of them mocking and laughing at crying children having nightmares and being unable to eat and locked in cages.

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Geneviev
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Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:24 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Fighting for Nazi Germany.

Defending his country even though he disagreed with it.

Nazis were disgusting. What they did was abominable. What my great grandfather did was neither.

Again the "Disagreement" line.

"I disagree with murdering Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals en masse... but I'll still fight for lebensraum!"

Tell me more about how invading other countries is defending your own.

No one wants to think bad of people they care about, but that doesn't change facts.

Nazi Germany was run by good liars. He did the wrong thing with good intentions. He disagreed but he believed that it was better for his country and his family. Because the Nazis lied.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

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