US immigration breaking up families

[Bombadil]

56% of illegals are in states.. but.. a town in Alaska was riven apart by the issue of immigration because a town council proposal to welcome people of all nationalities was tabled.. I can source both but give me an edit

I don't mean to sound negative about Alaska or americans in general but here in Europe when we needed people in a frozen wasteland we had to banish them there and keep then under guard to get them to stay. Just saying.


/ Don't take this reply too seriously. It's in jest.
The original one you quoted was serious though. Dead serious.

Well.. Loki was irritating..

[The Grims]

Assimilation is not really needed. Participation however is.

You'd think that but its not how things work out. Obviously, the people coming don't need to completely 100% assimilate, renounce their relatives back home and change their race on demand. And there is some wiggle room.

But if they don't accept the local language, basic customs, work ethics and primary cultural norms this inevitably leads to the whole society suffering as at best the newcomers will have a hard time functioning within it to find and keep jobs and apartments and generally contribute meaningfully and at worst they end up creating ethnic ghettos that over time lead to deep rooted social problems, inequality and separation which inevitably end up breeding resentment and extremism.

Really ? I have very few problems with the cook in my favourite Chinese restaurant who only speaks Chinese, only watches Chinese tv etc. - but does work hard, pays his taxes (as far as I know) and provides me with nice food.

[The Federation of Kendor]

There are two categories of illegal immigrants.

1. Those who are willing to face, as individuals, whatever consequences may come.

2. Those who selfishly bring an innocent child into that situation.

The former are honourable, but to hell with the latter. I don't know whether they're having kids because they want to or because they hope ICE goes easier on 'em, but either way, it's their own damn fault.

So you believe the latter is not someone who wants better future for themselves and their kids, but evil child abusers

[Purpelia]

Really ? I have very few problems with the cook in my favourite Chinese restaurant who only speaks Chinese, only watches Chinese tv etc. - but does work hard, pays his taxes (as far as I know) and provides me with nice food.

You do not have a problem. But whilst the fallout of this issue will inevitably reverberate back upon you it is not intrinsically yours but his.

And unlike you who live a pampered life of familiarity and easy access your cook friend most certainly experience much difficulty upon arriving. Just imagine how long it must have taken a foreigner with no knowledge of your tongue to locate and grasp a hold of employment. He may well be the most versatile and skilled creator of cuisine capable of crafting all of the worlds flavors. He may be a hard worker, a dedicated man, the sort of employee any restaurant would gladly accept. But he can nary apply a job for lack of comprehension of the adverts posted for them. Thus for all his skills and talents his employability is reduced to the tiny circle of places of work run by Chinese for Chinese. And as one can imagine, outside of China these will inevitably be few and far between.

And the same sorrowful pattern will repeat it self for housing, insurance, health care or any other form of endeavor one might desire to engage in through the course of ones life. Each of these activities, nominally mundane becomes through lack of assimilation a hurdle difficult to overcome and needlessly taxing on the precious time and resources your acquaintance has.

As can be expected with every step up in adversity increases both the number of those that fail and the propensity of them to do so in ways that will result in critical inability to lead a happy and productive life. And when such failure occurs it leads, inevitably and morbidly so to to a state of utter distress and discomfort. For what is more upsetting than to find your self in a state of unemployment and homelessness in spite of clear presence of both open work waiting for you and your own skill and willingness to engage in it? And this utterly horrid situation can only be made worse by the reasonable expectation on your part to have through lack of desire or capability not prepared a dedicated plan for exit should your excursion to greener pastures end in disaster.

It is thus and through these means that many a would be migrant finds them self trapped in their new home. Incapable of progressing, even less capable of returning to their homeland and utterly unable to contribute in any meaningful way to the nation they arrived in. And it is from this state of profound alienation that inevitably spawn those places and organizations of humans squalor and degeneracy that breed such horrid institutions as ghettos, trafficking, organized crime and ideological and cultural hate which so often plague societies as a whole.

And it is only here that things come back to you and your problems. For as these people live and feed and writhe they drain the resources of your nation which you by all right should be privet to all the while returning little and demanding more. And among those that fail with sufficient spectacularity will breed through time groups whose influence erodes the very fabric of what you stand for and the security and culture which advanced your society to the wealth they tried to join.

Thus through no fault of their own will their lack of desire or ability to assimilate lead with unyielding crushing inevitability to the destruction of that which they most sought to claim as their own. And no matter how numerous, those few stories of success that you or I could quote ad nausium do nothing to diminish this grim and unavoidable fact. For they are above all a product of luck which as we all know defies patterns without abolishing them.

[Bombadil]

Really ? I have very few problems with the cook in my favourite Chinese restaurant who only speaks Chinese, only watches Chinese tv etc. - but does work hard, pays his taxes (as far as I know) and provides me with nice food.

You do not have a problem. But whilst the fallout of this issue will inevitably reverberate back upon you it is not intrinsically yours but his.

And unlike you who live a pampered life of familiarity and easy access your cook friend most certainly experience much difficulty upon arriving. Just imagine how long it must have taken a foreigner with no knowledge of your tongue to locate and grasp a hold of employment. He may well be the most versatile and skilled creator of cuisine capable of crafting all of the worlds flavors. He may be a hard worker, a dedicated man, the sort of employee any restaurant would gladly accept. But he can nary apply a job for lack of comprehension of the adverts posted for them. Thus for all his skills and talents his employability is reduced to the tiny circle of places of work run by Chinese for Chinese. And as one can imagine, outside of China these will inevitably be few and far between.

And the same sorrowful pattern will repeat it self for housing, insurance, health care or any other form of endeavor one might desire to engage in through the course of ones life. Each of these activities, nominally mundane becomes through lack of assimilation a hurdle difficult to overcome and needlessly taxing on the precious time and resources your acquaintance has.

As can be expected with every step up in adversity increases both the number of those that fail and the propensity of them to do so in ways that will result in critical inability to lead a happy and productive life. And when such failure occurs it leads, inevitably and morbidly so to to a state of utter distress and discomfort. For what is more upsetting than to find your self in a state of unemployment and homelessness in spite of clear presence of both open work waiting for you and your own skill and willingness to engage in it? And this utterly horrid situation can only be made worse by the reasonable expectation on your part to have through lack of desire or capability not prepared a dedicated plan for exit should your excursion to greener pastures end in disaster.

It is thus and through these means that many a would be migrant finds them self trapped in their new home. Incapable of progressing, even less capable of returning to their homeland and utterly unable to contribute in any meaningful way to the nation they arrived in. And it is from this state of profound alienation that inevitably spawn those places and organizations of humans squalor and degeneracy that breed such horrid institutions as ghettos, trafficking, organized crime and ideological and cultural hate which so often plague societies as a whole.

And it is only here that things come back to you and your problems. For as these people live and feed and writhe they drain the resources of your nation which you by all right should be privet to all the while returning little and demanding more. And among those that fail with sufficient spectacularity will breed through time groups whose influence erodes the very fabric of what you stand for and the security and culture which advanced your society to the wealth they tried to join.

Thus through no fault of their own will their lack of desire or ability to assimilate lead with unyielding crushing inevitability to the destruction of that which they most sought to claim as their own. And no matter how numerous, those few stories of success that you or I could quote ad nausium do nothing to diminish this grim and unavoidable fact. For they are above all a product of luck which as we all know defies patterns without abolishing them.

Fine prose but would you be willing to bet the average improvement of second or third generation immigrants over the children of long arrived citizens - or would you look at the percentage of millionaires whose parents arrived less that 100 years ago over those more than 100 years ago?

One cannot look through a single prism and note most people sit below 50% without looking at the opposite.

I honestly.. as a dog on the internet.. haven't checked the answers.. just asking another dog on the internet if they'd place money on their.. oh my.. I see a thread about Samantha the Bee appearing..

[Austrasien]

Anything to keep those subhuman juveniles in cages, I see.

This is so sad can we abolish the rule of law?

[Purpelia]

Fine prose

Thanks, I tried.

but would you be willing to bet the average improvement of second or third generation immigrants over the children of long arrived citizens - or would you look at the percentage of millionaires whose parents arrived less that 100 years ago over those more than 100 years ago?

I would absolutely be willing to bet on the fact, for it is fact and not conjecture, that the rate of assimilation among migrants and their offspring has a direct and severe influence on their success in life.

A 3rd generation migrant that has assimilated even partially is in a far superior position when it comes to finding employment, housing, education (a crucial factor in modern society) and generally prospering than one who still does not speak the language and refuses to accept the local work ethnic, cultural norms and other practices. It's simple fact.

You are more likely to hire someone that behaves in ways you feel familiar with. You are more likely to feel comfortable thrusting them with responsibilities, expecting them to pay rent regularly, giving them good deals on purchases etc. And when they are employed understanding of the language and work ethic can be crucial to ensure they perform up to the standards expected of a generic employee. And that's not to mention education which is self explanatory. You can't go to school if you don't understand what the teacher is saying.

This is why you get the often praised well integrated migrant communities who have accepted the crucial parts of local culture and blended it in with what of their own is not contrary to their new home from which most of your success stories come from. They understand that they need to adopt local language and customs if they expect to thrive.

And a contrast to these are the various ethnic ghettos where people of a kind only ever mingle among them self, can't find employment or housing in the outside and crucially can't get the education and support needed to get out of the trap they have fallen into.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

I like how misrepresented it is. They make it sound as if trump ordered kids to be torn from their mothers arms for no reason. That simply isn't the case.

No no.. of course not, the reason is to deter other immigrants. The reason to put the parents in custody and separate the children into camps for an indefinite period is to serve much as a beheaded criminal was mounted on the walls of the city.

Ah those were the days.. perhaps when Mexico finally pays for that wall we can relive such times.

Quite so. They were intentionally using children as a shield and now that shield has been taken away.

Ideally people will get out and vote during the midterms and elect congressmen who understand that tax paying immigrants are worth more than prisoners.

[Salandriagado]

Assimilation is not really needed. Participation however is.

You'd think that but its not how things work out. Obviously, the people coming don't need to completely 100% assimilate, renounce their relatives back home and change their race on demand. And there is some wiggle room.

But if they don't accept the local language, basic customs, work ethics and primary cultural norms this inevitably leads to the whole society suffering as at best the newcomers will have a hard time functioning within it to find and keep jobs and apartments and generally contribute meaningfully and at worst they end up creating ethnic ghettos that over time lead to deep rooted social problems, inequality and separation which inevitably end up breeding resentment and extremism.

*Looks at Leicester*

Huh, turns out assimilation isn't required.

[Salandriagado]

There are two categories of illegal immigrants.

1. Those who are willing to face, as individuals, whatever consequences may come.

2. Those who selfishly bring an innocent child into that situation.

The former are honourable, but to hell with the latter. I don't know whether they're having kids because they want to or because they hope ICE goes easier on 'em, but either way, it's their own damn fault.

The alternative may well be "leave innocent child to die" or "stay with innocent child and both of you die". The whole point of immigration, legal or otherwise, is to find somewhere that's a better place for you/your children.

[Liriena]

Coolio. What was the point of that observation?

I just find your position absurd is all.

That sounds more like your biases talking than anything else. I'm a libsoc, not a tankie.

[Liriena]

All the people in here pretending like this is something Trump started lmao.

No, this goes back to the Clinton Admistration. And interestingly enough, the Obama Admin held more than double the number of children in these facilities. This only now became an issue because Trump is president.

And while it is terrible that families are being separated, if people don't want that to happen then I'd reccomend not immigrating here illegally.

So you support concentration camps for children. Got it.

[Liriena]

Anything to keep those subhuman juveniles in cages, I see.

This is so sad can we abolish the rule of law?

Hot take: patently unjust laws that lead to situations where a bunch of fascist cunts put children in concentration camps can be reformed.

[Liriena]

Every good-willing conservative needs to support this irrespective of how they feel about the issue, because the liberals oppose it and want to bring down Trump with it.

Lmao @ supporting concentration camps to own the libs

You are your own parody.

[Liriena]

Lmao now this is some pure ideology.

We owe these people nothing, they can be miserable in their third world hellholes well away from here. Legitimately all I see is "OHNO, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" as a counter argument, and it's getting stupid. Yes, let us think of the children in a demographic context and how there are millions of the little bastards from those drug & crime infested hellholes. I do not want those foreigners or their spawn in my country, period.

Totally normal rant from a person whose opinions are definitely all in good faith and deserve to be taken seriously.

[Liriena]

There are two categories of illegal immigrants.

1. Those who are willing to face, as individuals, whatever consequences may come.

2. Those who selfishly bring an innocent child into that situation.

The former are honourable, but to hell with the latter. I don't know whether they're having kids because they want to or because they hope ICE goes easier on 'em, but either way, it's their own damn fault.

The alternative may well be "leave innocent child to die" or "stay with innocent child and both of you die". The whole point of immigration, legal or otherwise, is to find somewhere that's a better place for you/your children.

Typical lib, undermining their cynical smearing of immigrants with humanizing context.

[Ifreann]

... do you not shed tears for dogs?

What sort of monster doesn't shed tears for dogs?!!! D:

That depends, are they good dogs?



Trick question. They're all good dogs.

---

See, the key word here is compare. "You are a Nazi" and "you're acting a bit Nazi-ish" are rather different phrases.

Who cares about nuance? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nuance is degenerate.

[-Ocelot-]

The US government is pushing the limits with what they can get away with since they can't outright kill them or force them to work for free. Since it's supporters are in agreement with these practices ("it was their choice to cross the border, their fault" etc) they may continue pushing the limits in the future. To get a glimpse into what may happen in the future, see the 8 stages of genocide, by Genocide Watch, and more specifically stage 6:

http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenoc ... ocide.html

6. PREPARATION: Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity. Death lists are drawn up. Members of victim groups are forced to wear identifying symbols. Their property is expropriated. They are often segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. At this stage, a Genocide Emergency must be declared. If the political will of the great powers, regional alliances, or the U.N. Security Council can be mobilized, armed international intervention should be prepared, or heavy assistance provided to the victim group to prepare for its self-defense. Otherwise, at least humanitarian assistance should be organized by the U.N. and private relief groups for the inevitable tide of refugees to come.

[Elwher]

There are two categories of illegal immigrants.

1. Those who are willing to face, as individuals, whatever consequences may come.

2. Those who selfishly bring an innocent child into that situation.

The former are honourable, but to hell with the latter. I don't know whether they're having kids because they want to or because they hope ICE goes easier on 'em, but either way, it's their own damn fault.

The alternative may well be "leave innocent child to die" or "stay with innocent child and both of you die". The whole point of immigration, legal or otherwise, is to find somewhere that's a better place for you/your children.

You leave out the third alternative. Go through the process of appearing at a point of entry to the US and applying for asylum status there, rather than sneaking across the border in the dead of night, hoping you and your children can disappear into the masses of illegal immigrants already here.

[Tekania]

You'd think that but its not how things work out. Obviously, the people coming don't need to completely 100% assimilate, renounce their relatives back home and change their race on demand. And there is some wiggle room.

But if they don't accept the local language, basic customs, work ethics and primary cultural norms this inevitably leads to the whole society suffering as at best the newcomers will have a hard time functioning within it to find and keep jobs and apartments and generally contribute meaningfully and at worst they end up creating ethnic ghettos that over time lead to deep rooted social problems, inequality and separation which inevitably end up breeding resentment and extremism.

Really ? I have very few problems with the cook in my favourite Chinese restaurant who only speaks Chinese, only watches Chinese tv etc. - but does work hard, pays his taxes (as far as I know) and provides me with nice food.

Yeah, I've seen the worth ethic of most of my fellow Americans.... the last thing I want an immigrant to do is accept the local work ethic... the local work ethic is absolute shit. They are generally bringing them a much better work ethic.... one that our country needs.

[Tekania]

All the people in here pretending like this is something Trump started lmao.

No, this goes back to the Clinton Admistration. And interestingly enough, the Obama Admin held more than double the number of children in these facilities. This only now became an issue because Trump is president.

And while it is terrible that families are being separated, if people don't want that to happen then I'd reccomend not immigrating here illegally.

I don't generally support it... but then I'm very libertarian in my immigration view. Open borders, easy visas, only deporting those convicted of crimes.

But you do highlight a problem with this country. It has become severely polarized. People are suddenly at issue with things Trump does that Obama and even Clinton has been doing before.... and then others are patting Trump on the back for doing things they criticized Obama for. People are less concerned about whether an action is good or bad because upon the content of the action, and are only treating it as good or bad based upon the person doing it at the time.

I'm not saying that having an issue with an action being done is bad.... but when it only becomes an issue based upon your opinion of who is doing it .... THAT is what is bad. An action should be good or bad on its own merits, not based upon WHO is doing it.

[Benuty]

We owe these people nothing, they can be miserable in their third world hellholes well away from here. Legitimately all I see is "OHNO, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" as a counter argument, and it's getting stupid. Yes, let us think of the children in a demographic context and how there are millions of the little bastards from those drug & crime infested hellholes. I do not want those foreigners or their spawn in my country, period.

Well, that's about the most fucked up thing I'll be reading tonight.

Jesus Christ.

Oh please, it's plain, and simple nativism even if it is blunt it's hardly fucked up. It would be fucked up if they suggested firebombing, and then quarantining the remains of the third world. Some people legitimately want to wall off the first, second, and third worlds from one another as they believe it the only true way to maintain stability.

[-Ocelot-]

Lmao now this is some pure ideology.

We owe these people nothing, they can be miserable in their third world hellholes well away from here. Legitimately all I see is "OHNO, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" as a counter argument, and it's getting stupid. Yes, let us think of the children in a demographic context and how there are millions of the little bastards from those drug & crime infested hellholes. I do not want those foreigners or their spawn in my country, period.

This is the kind of people dictatorships build their authority on.

[Benuty]

We owe these people nothing, they can be miserable in their third world hellholes well away from here. Legitimately all I see is "OHNO, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" as a counter argument, and it's getting stupid. Yes, let us think of the children in a demographic context and how there are millions of the little bastards from those drug & crime infested hellholes. I do not want those foreigners or their spawn in my country, period.

This is the kind of people dictatorships build their authority on.

Eh...that is a bit of a simplification since dictatorships tend to rely on multiple kinds of people, and not just the exceptionally anti-immigrant. Being angry in a shit situation, and/or genuinely believing authoritarian regimes are the only true path to safety, and ultimately prosperity works just as fine.

[Zurkerx]

Republicans really want to lose in 2018...

The alternative may well be "leave innocent child to die" or "stay with innocent child and both of you die". The whole point of immigration, legal or otherwise, is to find somewhere that's a better place for you/your children.

You leave out the third alternative. Go through the process of appearing at a point of entry to the US and applying for asylum status there, rather than sneaking across the border in the dead of night, hoping you and your children can disappear into the masses of illegal immigrants already here.

^This. I should point out though that this Administration has made it more difficult to seek asylum, given their rhetoric on immigrants and immigration.