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US immigration breaking up families

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should illegal families be separated

Yes
123
30%
No
254
62%
Not Sure
30
7%
 
Total votes : 407

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Liriena wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Some have indeed been comparing this to how the Japanese were treated, placed in internment camps, during WWII.

More extreme comparisons have been made. The Japanese internment camps seem like a good fit, tho.


I frankly haven't seen these border detention centers (or whatever they're called). But I have heard several negative comments made about them and I wouldn't be surprised if the detainees are being treated like crap. The Trump administration isn't known for compassion or ethics.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
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Liriena
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Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:10 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
NERVUN wrote:... Are you aware of what the hell is happening? I mean, really?

Is anyone surprised our resident white supremacists support this? ICE could be slaughtering these immigrants and they wouldn't have a problem with it, there's no point engaging.

But they broke the lawwwwwwwwww!!!!
be gay do crime


I am:
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An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
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Bombadil
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Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Liriena wrote:Putting children in concentration camps, and then incoherently trying to excuse it with utter bullshit because you're doing it while also trying to blame others because you know it makes you look like a piece of shit?


So if the Democrats are at fault then this is bad and will be stopped no.. oh no.. we need zero tolerance because of the flood of immigrants.. oh no.. Trump has done a great job reducing immigrants.. oh no.. it's just carrying out God's will.. oh wait God's will is to support the Democrat position.. oh no..

It's just fucking ridiculous.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Hakons
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Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:11 pm

Liriena wrote:Putting children in concentration camps, and then incoherently trying to excuse it with utter bullshit because you're doing it while also trying to blame others because you know it makes you look like a piece of shit?


U.S. immigration facilities cannot reasonably be compared to concentration camps. Families shouldn't be separated, but we must be reasonable in our arguments.
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

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Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:12 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Liriena wrote:More extreme comparisons have been made. The Japanese internment camps seem like a good fit, tho.


I frankly haven't seen these border detention centers (or whatever they're called). But I have heard several negative comments made about them and I wouldn't be surprised if the detainees are being treated like crap. The Trump administration isn't known for compassion or ethics.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44523541

Worth watching the video. And you'd probably be able to confirm the translations as well.

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Liriena
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Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:13 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Liriena wrote:More extreme comparisons have been made. The Japanese internment camps seem like a good fit, tho.


I frankly haven't seen these border detention centers (or whatever they're called). But I have heard several negative comments made about them and I wouldn't be surprised if the detainees are being treated like crap. The Trump administration isn't known for compassion or ethics.

It was already pretty bad during the Obama years, to put it mildly.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Posts: 203834
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:16 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I frankly haven't seen these border detention centers (or whatever they're called). But I have heard several negative comments made about them and I wouldn't be surprised if the detainees are being treated like crap. The Trump administration isn't known for compassion or ethics.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44523541

Worth watching the video. And you'd probably be able to confirm the translations as well.


That's awful. And the children crying. :(
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:16 pm

Pointless cruelty. Trump dumb thing #8,567,482.

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Liriena
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Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:16 pm

Hakons wrote:
Liriena wrote:Putting children in concentration camps, and then incoherently trying to excuse it with utter bullshit because you're doing it while also trying to blame others because you know it makes you look like a piece of shit?


U.S. immigration facilities cannot reasonably be compared to concentration camps.

Children, some of them young enough to still be wearing diapers, are being held en masse in cells, in inhumane conditions, by institutions with a long history of neglect and abuse.

I'm calling them concentration camps to be generous. If we factor in that the same institutions lost track of hundreds of those children over the years, sometimes placing them in the hands of human traffickers, a new and even uglier set of words starts to look awfully fitting.

Every person in every government institution that played a part in this can fucking rot.
Last edited by Liriena on Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 203834
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:17 pm

And the fucking guards making fun of the crying kids, calling their cries an orchestra? Come the fuck on, you separated a child from their parents. Of course they will be crying. Fuck.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Liriena
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Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:18 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Liriena wrote:Putting children in concentration camps, and then incoherently trying to excuse it with utter bullshit because you're doing it while also trying to blame others because you know it makes you look like a piece of shit?


So if the Democrats are at fault then this is bad and will be stopped no.. oh no.. we need zero tolerance because of the flood of immigrants.. oh no.. Trump has done a great job reducing immigrants.. oh no.. it's just carrying out God's will.. oh wait God's will is to support the Democrat position.. oh no..

It's just fucking ridiculous.

Feckless fascist cunts, the lot of them.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Bombadil
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18711
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:18 pm

Liriena wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I frankly haven't seen these border detention centers (or whatever they're called). But I have heard several negative comments made about them and I wouldn't be surprised if the detainees are being treated like crap. The Trump administration isn't known for compassion or ethics.

It was already pretty bad during the Obama years, to put it mildly.


As far as I can tell giving Border Patrol any power without strict oversight leads to abuse, I don't know why it seems to attract complete assholes.. to be honest it seems endemic across immigration - there was a podcast about the inherent sexism and mistreatment by airport security in JFK - it just seems to attract people who's prime thought is 'I gotta protect America from furriners..' and take an utterly officious and shitty character in with them.

'Welcome to America' isn't really a thing.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Hakons
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Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:19 pm

Liriena wrote:
Hakons wrote:
U.S. immigration facilities cannot reasonably be compared to concentration camps.

Children, some of them young enough to still be wearing diapers, are being held en masse in cells, in inhumane conditions, by institutions with a long history of neglect and abuse.

I'm calling them concentration camps to be generous. If we factor in that the same institutions lost track of hundreds of those children over the years, sometimes placing them in the hands of human traffickers, a new and even uglier set of words starts to look awfully fitting.

Every person in every government institution that played a part in this can fucking rot.


All of this needs evidence. I know immigration authorities can be rough, but America is still a pretty good place to be detained, globally speaking.
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

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The Portland Territory
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Portland Territory » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:20 pm

Ok I'm sorry but this is so stupid

Families are separated when men are incarcerated for 20 years in prison. What difference does it make between this and that? One's a political scheme, the other is just basic reality
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16 year old Monarchist from Rhode Island. Interested in economics, governance, metaphysical philosophy, European + Near Eastern history, vexillology, faith, hunting, automotive, ranching, science fiction, music, and anime.

Pro: Absolute Monarchy, Lex Rex, Subsidiarity, Guild Capitalism, Property Rights, Tridentine Catholicism, Unlimited Gun Rights, Hierarchy, Traditionalism, Ethnic Nationalism, Irredentism
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Angreia
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Founded: Sep 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Angreia » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:20 pm

People who commit crimes are separated from their families everyday how is this different?
Straight white conservative male. Get over it.
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Not her body, not her choice.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post-Apocalypse Survivor
 
Posts: 203834
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:20 pm

Hakons wrote:
Liriena wrote:Children, some of them young enough to still be wearing diapers, are being held en masse in cells, in inhumane conditions, by institutions with a long history of neglect and abuse.

I'm calling them concentration camps to be generous. If we factor in that the same institutions lost track of hundreds of those children over the years, sometimes placing them in the hands of human traffickers, a new and even uglier set of words starts to look awfully fitting.

Every person in every government institution that played a part in this can fucking rot.


All of this needs evidence. I know immigration authorities can be rough, but America is still a pretty good place to be detained, globally speaking.


Fartsniffage posted evidence already. And don't take my word for it. Read the subtitles provided.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:21 pm

Hakons wrote:
Liriena wrote:Children, some of them young enough to still be wearing diapers, are being held en masse in cells, in inhumane conditions, by institutions with a long history of neglect and abuse.

I'm calling them concentration camps to be generous. If we factor in that the same institutions lost track of hundreds of those children over the years, sometimes placing them in the hands of human traffickers, a new and even uglier set of words starts to look awfully fitting.

Every person in every government institution that played a part in this can fucking rot.


All of this needs evidence. I know immigration authorities can be rough, but America is still a pretty good place to be detained, globally speaking.

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/11/imm ... e-ice-dhs/

And

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/26/poli ... index.html
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:21 pm


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El-Amin Caliphate
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Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:21 pm

Welcome to the United States of America, where we forcefully destroy families and make immigrants' lives miserable.
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Bombadil
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Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:22 pm

Angreia wrote:People who commit crimes are separated from their families everyday how is this different?


..because we tend not to take those children and drop them in cages.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:22 pm

Angreia wrote:People who commit crimes are separated from their families everyday how is this different?

A lot of those families did not commit any crime (overstaying a visa, for example, is a civil violation). A lot of them are asylum seekers.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:23 pm

The Portland Territory wrote:Ok I'm sorry but this is so stupid

Families are separated when men are incarcerated for 20 years in prison. What difference does it make between this and that? One's a political scheme, the other is just basic reality

Do you really need to taunt the children and put them in cages?

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The Portland Territory
Postmaster-General
 
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Founded: Dec 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Portland Territory » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:24 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
The Portland Territory wrote:Ok I'm sorry but this is so stupid

Families are separated when men are incarcerated for 20 years in prison. What difference does it make between this and that? One's a political scheme, the other is just basic reality

Do you really need to taunt the children and put them in cages?

No, but is this the fault of the Trump Administration?
Korwin-Mikke 2020
Տխերք հավակեկ բոզերա. Կոոնել կոոնելով Արաչ ենկ երտոոմ մինչեվ Բակու

16 year old Monarchist from Rhode Island. Interested in economics, governance, metaphysical philosophy, European + Near Eastern history, vexillology, faith, hunting, automotive, ranching, science fiction, music, and anime.

Pro: Absolute Monarchy, Lex Rex, Subsidiarity, Guild Capitalism, Property Rights, Tridentine Catholicism, Unlimited Gun Rights, Hierarchy, Traditionalism, Ethnic Nationalism, Irredentism
Mixed: Fascism, Anarcho Capitalism, Donald Trump
Against: Democracy/ Democratic Republicanism, Egalitarianism, Direct Taxation, Cultural Marxism, Redistribution of Wealth

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Fartsniffage
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Posts: 42050
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:24 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:The actual fuck


Broken link.

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San Lumen
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Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:24 pm

This policy is cruel what the Nazis did and the fact that ICE and Border patrol are going along with it is disgusting. ICE and Border Patrol have become Gestapo Like. They should be ashamed. As a Jew I do not make that comparison lightly. Anyone who votes Republican in the fall is supporting crimes against humanity and Nazi and Gestapo like tactics.

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