US immigration breaking up families

[Viridus]

"Cause we're proud of our Dixie
Hooray, hooray
We'll fight again this time we'll win
We've lived, we'll die in Dixie

Stay away, stay away
You don't belong in Dixie
Stay away, stay away
You don't belong in Dixie"

[Soldati Senza Confini]

There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and aggressively misrepresenting their arguments. The latter tends to result in people leaving a thread in disgust.

There is a difference between disagreeing with someone, and defending the indefensible.

Right now most of the people who disagree with the people they call "leftists" and "bleeding hearts" are doing so either because they want to bait people, or because they genuinely want to defend the indefensible or rationalize it to make themselves feel better and put some distance between themselves and the problem. So I am not surprised discussion is being shut down.

[Viridus]

"They oughta get the hell out of America
And leave the white man alone

They don't like this, they don't like that
They're never satisfied and that's a fact
They more we give, the more they take
The more we fix, the more they break
The country's in an awful mess
With a whole lotta civil unrest
I got one thing to suggest
They outta leave, and get gone"

[Ifreann]

Whose viewpoint am I malignantly misrepresenting?

Every poster who agrees with the Trump administration's policy on breaking up illegal immigrant families.

Quote me saying anything about the viewpoint of any such poster.

Okay? I'm not aware of "surface-level" meaning "invalid" or "impermissible", so I don't really care if that's what you want to call it.

It makes it an extremely weak and ignorant comparison.

If you want to keep making them, go for it. But it just gives the impression you're arguing in bad faith.

Thank you for your permission to carry on posting.

Are people afraid that I might post something they don't agree with? Seems to me that they're the ones preventing dialogue.

There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and aggressively misrepresenting their arguments. The latter tends to result in people leaving a thread in disgust.

I'm not misrepresenting anyone's arguments, so if people want to run off with their tails between their legs because they think I am then fuck them, quite frankly.

---

"They oughta get the hell out of America
And leave the white man alone

They don't like this, they don't like that
They're never satisfied and that's a fact
They more we give, the more they take
The more we fix, the more they break
The country's in an awful mess
With a whole lotta civil unrest
I got one thing to suggest
They outta leave, and get gone"

This isn't karaoke, mate.

[San Lumen]

"They oughta get the hell out of America
And leave the white man alone

They don't like this, they don't like that
They're never satisfied and that's a fact
They more we give, the more they take
The more we fix, the more they break
The country's in an awful mess
With a whole lotta civil unrest
I got one thing to suggest
They outta leave, and get gone"

Racist much?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Ideally, the government of their country of origin would protect them. But if that isn't the case for whatever reason, that is not the US' fault or problem. It is a harsh and imperfect world where a ton of people won't get help or a good outcome. The better approach is to enable as many people as possible to be self reliant- regardless of circumstance. Extending charity too often is foolish at best.

It is how rich countries become poor, they import poverty from elsewhere; spend too much on stupid stuff and fall behind from allowing their wealth and resources to transfer to other countries or get wasted on unworthy causes such as people coming in from poor countries.

You're talking about abandoning toddlers in a city hundreds of miles away from their parents and taking no responsibility for what happens to them.

We’ve downgraded from human right violations to just being a dick for the sake of it

[Petrasylvania]

You're talking about abandoning toddlers in a city hundreds of miles away from their parents and taking no responsibility for what happens to them.

We’ve downgraded from human right violations to just being a dick for the sake of it

Suggesting things like that come effortlessly when you're detached from the human experience.

[North Arkana]

Fighting for Nazi Germany.

Defending his country even though he disagreed with it.

Nazis were disgusting. What they did was abominable. What my great grandfather did was neither.

Again the "Disagreement" line.

"I disagree with murdering Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals en masse... but I'll still fight for lebensraum!"

Tell me more about how invading other countries is defending your own.

No one wants to think bad of people they care about, but that doesn't change facts.

Sorry, but I had to pick this up...

ahem. "Defending the Fatherland in the Motherland."

These "mein Opa" stories never end, do they?

[Shaggtopia]

Just imagine how we could reform the family court system with this much manufactured outrage. Sadly I'm being too optimistic about the general public being consistent on what is morally outrageous and what isn't.

Hey pal, I agree that the family courts are broken too. For the exact same reason I'm currently outraged at families being Seperated at the boarder (which incidentally seems to have been resolved.) what I'm saying is that we can't have a state that already mishandles its own children taking other people's kids too. Kinda why I wanted to take a step back from the immigration and partisan aspects and examine the core issue in the first place. Which broadly is "does the state have a right to separate families?" To which my answer is largely, No they do not. There are some obvious examples of parents treating their children inhumanly that I'm sure we'd both agree would warrent state intervention but to me those are the exception not the rule. Mostly I just don't want to have to deal with an entire portion of the population who's entire support structure is tax funded. Those people will be defunded because you're absolutely right about policy consistency amongst the general public. Or maybe altruism will become popular again and I'm just a pessimist.

[Shaggtopia]

I'm really disappointed if it is true that Trump is signing an executive order to put the family separations on hold. It should most definitely continue. I don't have feelings for these children. The liberal media can give me a break, if they're suffering- what about what's ours?

This border problem is being blamed on everyone else except for the people actually causing the problem- the illegal immigrants.

Yeah the Native Americans really got screwed on this whole deal, damn Immigarnts should just go back home... So should I get a free plane ticket to Ireland, Poland, Germany, or France? Also, not illigal if they stop at the border, ask to get in and start in on the process of becoming a citizen. they're just like your ancestors who took a boat across the Atlantic so you can put down the racism and realize in two or three generations there's going to be a little brown child who thinks exactly like you do today about whoever is trying to move to America then (provided we haven't blown ourselves up or died off in the next sixty years.)

The border problem has only really been a problem when we wrecked our economy so bad that the average person needs to work two or three jobs to simply provide for themselves. Blame gutted unions, blame stagnated wages, blame inflation, blame defunded education, blame the banks that where "too big to fail", because these things cause problems not people looking to build a better life for themselves and their families.

[Greater Miami Shores]

As a Cuban American who applied, met the requirements and waited many years in Cuba to emigrate legally to the USA, I supported the end of the Dry Foot, Wet Foot Policy with my posts on NS as unfair to other immigrant groups trying to do the same, but not for the reasons President Obama did it, doing it before President Trump had a chance to change the policy himself, I support the detention of the current illegal immigrant families together in the detention centers, as is going to happen now that President Trump has signed the executive order, I tweeted this to The White House and President Trump.

But under the zeo tolerance illegal immigration policy, don't accept any more illegals into custody, like the illegal Cubans denied entry, give them food and water bottles to return to Mexico, illegal immigration problem solved, I also tweeted this to The White House and President Trump.

I would even provide a friendly military escort back to Mexico for the illegal immigrants, what I mean by a friendly military escort is, I am sure our military would be nice to the illegal immigrants they are returning and protecting from the cartel mobs, smugglers or anyone who would cause them physical harm.

Despite my support of a zero tolerance illegal immigration policy, contrary to the popular belief of many on NS, I am not such a bad guy dude, I admit I defend President Trump hard Trump style, and even harder than Trump defends himself, perhaps RPing President Trump on the NS RP Forums has gone to my head, where I think I really am President Trump, lol, even Mexico deports illegal immigrants, even Mexico deports illegal immigrants.

[Mr Conservative]

Trump is playing politics with the executive order, IMO. This executive order contradicts with a direct ruling from a court, and in all likelihood this is just a very brief pause to family separation. The DOJ requested court allow the change to the Flores agreement today, but I would be shocked if the 9th circuit's ruling is actually changed. Trump was right the first time when he assessed legally his two options are separating the kids from their parents or letting the family go into the US without deporting them.

IMO the point of the executive order isn't to end family separation, the brief pause we will see in family separation is just a side effect. IMO the point is that the media is going to have a harder time explaining how Trump is doing this for shits and giggles because he's basically Hitler when the court rules that if he isn't going to let the parents off the hook for violating the law then he has to keep the kids somewhere else. In other words, when the court says he has to separate the families. Looks to me like he's set up a big contrast between what we've seen discussed on MSNBC and CNN over the last 48 hours and the likely court ruling he's cruising right towards. A #FakeNewsTrap if you will, because Trump is at his strongest when he can point back at something the media said and show how it was misleading and/or unfair.

[Christmas Pudding]

Trump is playing politics with the executive order, IMO. This executive order contradicts with a direct ruling from a court, and in all likelihood this is just a very brief pause to family separation. The DOJ requested court allow the change to the Flores agreement today, but I would be shocked if the 9th circuit's ruling is actually changed. Trump was right the first time when he assessed legally his two options are separating the kids from their parents or letting the family go into the US without deporting them.

IMO the point of the executive order isn't to end family separation, the brief pause we will see in family separation is just a side effect. IMO the point is that the media is going to have a harder time explaining how Trump is doing this for shits and giggles because he's basically Hitler when the court rules that if he isn't going to let the parents off the hook for violating the law then he has to keep the kids somewhere else. In other words, when the court says he has to separate the families. Looks to me like he's set up a big contrast between what we've seen discussed on MSNBC and CNN over the last 48 hours and the likely court ruling he's cruising right towards. A #FakeNewsTrap if you will, because Trump is at his strongest when he can point back at something the media said and show how it was misleading and/or unfair.

This does make sense. Trump's new policy is not a return to prosecutorial discretion. He seemed to emphasize that the zero-tolerance policy is still in effect. The only thing he's changed is the policy on family separation.

Congress could preempt Trump and pass changes to immigration law. I don't think that they can though, because when they try, it always turns into a debate about comprehensive immigration reform.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Trump is playing politics with the executive order, IMO. This executive order contradicts with a direct ruling from a court, and in all likelihood this is just a very brief pause to family separation. The DOJ requested court allow the change to the Flores agreement today, but I would be shocked if the 9th circuit's ruling is actually changed. Trump was right the first time when he assessed legally his two options are separating the kids from their parents or letting the family go into the US without deporting them.

IMO the point of the executive order isn't to end family separation, the brief pause we will see in family separation is just a side effect. IMO the point is that the media is going to have a harder time explaining how Trump is doing this for shits and giggles because he's basically Hitler when the court rules that if he isn't going to let the parents off the hook for violating the law then he has to keep the kids somewhere else. In other words, when the court says he has to separate the families. Looks to me like he's set up a big contrast between what we've seen discussed on MSNBC and CNN over the last 48 hours and the likely court ruling he's cruising right towards. A #FakeNewsTrap if you will, because Trump is at his strongest when he can point back at something the media said and show how it was misleading and/or unfair.

This does make sense. Trump's new policy is not a return to prosecutorial discretion. He seemed to emphasize that the zero-tolerance policy is still in effect. The only thing he's changed is the policy on family separation.

Congress could preempt Trump and pass changes to immigration law. I don't think that they can though, because when they try, it always turns into a debate about comprehensive immigration reform.

Interesting, Ill have to follow this closely.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Trump is playing politics with the executive order, IMO. This executive order contradicts with a direct ruling from a court, and in all likelihood this is just a very brief pause to family separation. The DOJ requested court allow the change to the Flores agreement today, but I would be shocked if the 9th circuit's ruling is actually changed. Trump was right the first time when he assessed legally his two options are separating the kids from their parents or letting the family go into the US without deporting them.

IMO the point of the executive order isn't to end family separation, the brief pause we will see in family separation is just a side effect. IMO the point is that the media is going to have a harder time explaining how Trump is doing this for shits and giggles because he's basically Hitler when the court rules that if he isn't going to let the parents off the hook for violating the law then he has to keep the kids somewhere else. In other words, when the court says he has to separate the families. Looks to me like he's set up a big contrast between what we've seen discussed on MSNBC and CNN over the last 48 hours and the likely court ruling he's cruising right towards. A #FakeNewsTrap if you will, because Trump is at his strongest when he can point back at something the media said and show how it was misleading and/or unfair.

This does make sense. Trump's new policy is not a return to prosecutorial discretion. He seemed to emphasize that the zero-tolerance policy is still in effect. The only thing he's changed is the policy on family separation.

Congress could preempt Trump and pass changes to immigration law. I don't think that they can though, because when they try, it always turns into a debate about comprehensive immigration reform.

Interesting, Ill have to follow this closely.

[Mr Conservative]

Trump is playing politics with the executive order, IMO. This executive order contradicts with a direct ruling from a court, and in all likelihood this is just a very brief pause to family separation. The DOJ requested court allow the change to the Flores agreement today, but I would be shocked if the 9th circuit's ruling is actually changed. Trump was right the first time when he assessed legally his two options are separating the kids from their parents or letting the family go into the US without deporting them.

IMO the point of the executive order isn't to end family separation, the brief pause we will see in family separation is just a side effect. IMO the point is that the media is going to have a harder time explaining how Trump is doing this for shits and giggles because he's basically Hitler when the court rules that if he isn't going to let the parents off the hook for violating the law then he has to keep the kids somewhere else. In other words, when the court says he has to separate the families. Looks to me like he's set up a big contrast between what we've seen discussed on MSNBC and CNN over the last 48 hours and the likely court ruling he's cruising right towards. A #FakeNewsTrap if you will, because Trump is at his strongest when he can point back at something the media said and show how it was misleading and/or unfair.

This does make sense. Trump's new policy is not a return to prosecutorial discretion. He seemed to emphasize that the zero-tolerance policy is still in effect. The only thing he's changed is the policy on family separation.

Congress could preempt Trump and pass changes to immigration law. I don't think that they can though, because when they try, it always turns into a debate about comprehensive immigration reform.

Correct, and if he's still prosecuting the people who cross the border illegally the courts are likely to rule the same way they did in 2014 and upheld in 2016, that the children cannot be kept with their parents if they are charged. Trump does not have the authority to end family separation if he chooses to charge then deport. He only has the same authority Obama did, which is to release the whole family into the US, or to separate the children from the family and detain them in separate facilities. The court was very clear that's what he's supposed to do, I doubt very much their ruling will change significantly. Which means the Executive Order will be out and the court will say pull those kids from their family, or release the whole family.

[The USA of America]

This does make sense. Trump's new policy is not a return to prosecutorial discretion. He seemed to emphasize that the zero-tolerance policy is still in effect. The only thing he's changed is the policy on family separation.

Congress could preempt Trump and pass changes to immigration law. I don't think that they can though, because when they try, it always turns into a debate about comprehensive immigration reform.

Correct, and if he's still prosecuting the people who cross the border illegally the courts are likely to rule the same way they did in 2014 and upheld in 2016, that the children cannot be kept with their parents if they are charged. Trump does not have the authority to end family separation if he chooses to charge then deport. He only has the same authority Obama did, which is to release the whole family into the US, or to separate the children from the family and detain them in separate facilities. The court was very clear that's what he's supposed to do, I doubt very much their ruling will change significantly. Which means the Executive Order will be out and the court will say pull those kids from their family, or release the whole family.

Interesting back and forth posts, ill have to follow these developments closely.

[Rio Cana]

"Cause we're proud of our Dixie
Hooray, hooray
We'll fight again this time we'll win
We've lived, we'll die in Dixie

Stay away, stay away
You don't belong in Dixie
Stay away, stay away
You don't belong in Dixie"

Is not todays Dixie mostly full of northerners/midwesterners and foreign immigrants.

[The USA of America]

"Cause we're proud of our Dixie
Hooray, hooray
We'll fight again this time we'll win
We've lived, we'll die in Dixie

Stay away, stay away
You don't belong in Dixie
Stay away, stay away
You don't belong in Dixie"

Is not todays Dixie mostly full of northerners/midwesterners and foreign immigrants.

Lol, nice song, poem or whatever, but I agree with RIo Cana.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Whose viewpoint am I malignantly misrepresenting?

Every poster who agrees with the Trump administration's policy on breaking up illegal immigrant families.

If the shoe fits, I see no problem with maligning people for agreeing with something despicable.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Every poster who agrees with the Trump administration's policy on breaking up illegal immigrant families.

If the shoe fits, I see no problem with maligning people for agreeing with something despicable.

I agree with you, just as democrats and republicans agreed when President Obama did the same thing.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If the shoe fits, I see no problem with maligning people for agreeing with something despicable.

I agree with you, just as democrats and republicans agreed when President Obama did the same thing.

If the Obama administration did the same, then yes, shame on them.

[Geneviev]

I agree with you, just as democrats and republicans agreed when President Obama did the same thing.

If the Obama administration did the same, then yes, shame on them.

Shame on anyone who separates children from their families.

The Obama administration didn't do it as much, though.

Still, shame on anyone who separates children from their families.

[Mushet]

As a Cuban American who applied, met the requirements and waited many years in Cuba to emigrate legally to the USA, I supported the end of the Dry Foot, Wet Foot Policy with my posts on NS as unfair to other immigrant groups trying to do the same, but not for the reasons President Obama did it, doing it before President Trump had a chance to change the policy himself, I support the detention of the current illegal immigrant families together in the detention centers, as is going to happen now that President Trump has signed the executive order, I tweeted this to The White House and President Trump.

But under the zeo tolerance illegal immigration policy, don't accept any more illegals into custody, like the illegal Cubans denied entry, give them food and water bottles to return to Mexico, illegal immigration problem solved, I also tweeted this to The White House and President Trump.

I would even provide a friendly military escort back to Mexico for the illegal immigrants, what I mean by a friendly military escort is, I am sure our military would be nice to the illegal immigrants they are returning and protecting from the cartel mobs, smugglers or anyone who would cause them physical harm.

Despite my support of a zero tolerance illegal immigration policy, contrary to the popular belief of many on NS, I am not such a bad guy dude, I admit I defend President Trump hard Trump style, and even harder than Trump defends himself, perhaps RPing President Trump on the NS RP Forums has gone to my head, where I think I really am President Trump, lol, even Mexico deports illegal immigrants, even Mexico deports illegal immigrants.

I find it puzzling when I see people on NS posting how they tweeted to a public figure as if the figure in question gave a fuck or even noticed, or if it was some big accomplishment.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As a Cuban American who applied, met the requirements and waited many years in Cuba to emigrate legally to the USA, I supported the end of the Dry Foot, Wet Foot Policy with my posts on NS as unfair to other immigrant groups trying to do the same, but not for the reasons President Obama did it, doing it before President Trump had a chance to change the policy himself, I support the detention of the current illegal immigrant families together in the detention centers, as is going to happen now that President Trump has signed the executive order, I tweeted this to The White House and President Trump.

But under the zeo tolerance illegal immigration policy, don't accept any more illegals into custody, like the illegal Cubans denied entry, give them food and water bottles to return to Mexico, illegal immigration problem solved, I also tweeted this to The White House and President Trump.

I would even provide a friendly military escort back to Mexico for the illegal immigrants, what I mean by a friendly military escort is, I am sure our military would be nice to the illegal immigrants they are returning and protecting from the cartel mobs, smugglers or anyone who would cause them physical harm.

Despite my support of a zero tolerance illegal immigration policy, contrary to the popular belief of many on NS, I am not such a bad guy dude, I admit I defend President Trump hard Trump style, and even harder than Trump defends himself, perhaps RPing President Trump on the NS RP Forums has gone to my head, where I think I really am President Trump, lol, even Mexico deports illegal immigrants, even Mexico deports illegal immigrants.

I find it puzzling when I see people on NS posting how they tweeted to a public figure as if the figure in question gave a fuck or even noticed, or if it was some big accomplishment.

Most public figures do not care about their followers's tweets.