US immigration breaking up families

[Tobleste]

I am surprised that Trump has done something aimed at solving it. I don't know if it will actually change anything because his word means nothing but it's opened the possibility of an improvement.

If it works, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican politicians to change. If this issue was left to the conscience of republican voters, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

I think his policy reversal of separating illegal immigrants families will actually backfire on him within the far-right factions of his party.

Yeah it's sad to say but I think this practice is appealing to much of his base.

[The Parkus Empire]

You said we need immigrants to do work they refuse to

Post the quote where I said “We need immigrants to do work they(Americans) refuse to do.” I did not say “We need immigrants”. I said that Americans are refusing to do the job that illegal immigrants do. That’s it.

He said

U.S citizens don't want the jobs that immigrants are willing to do.

You seconded this here

Americans don’t want to do rough manual labor anymore.

Sorry if how I phrased it was taken to mean your political position on immigration. What I meant was that you were saying "we" (our industries) need (i.e. it's in high demand) a sort of labor only immigrants will provide

[Iahselene]

I hardly think immigrants are essential to the economy. Americans would not want these jobs, but if forced to do them they would be stupid not to. It's just that immigrants will do it cheaper.

[Tobleste]

I am surprised that Trump has done something aimed at solving it. I don't know if it will actually change anything because his word means nothing but it's opened the possibility of an improvement.

If it works, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican politicians to change. If this issue was left to the conscience of republican voters, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

You mean the same democrats that were willing to throw the children under the bus in the name of partisan politicking?

When did that happen?

[Greater Miami Shores]

I am surprised that Trump has done something aimed at solving it. I don't know if it will actually change anything because his word means nothing but it's opened the possibility of an improvement.

If it works, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican politicians to change. If this issue was left to the conscience of republican voters, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

I agree, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican ( and democrat) politicians to change, that did not object to Obama doing the same thing, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

[Greater Miami Shores]

I am surprised that Trump has done something aimed at solving it. I don't know if it will actually change anything because his word means nothing but it's opened the possibility of an improvement.

If it works, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican politicians to change. If this issue was left to the conscience of republican voters, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

I agree, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican ( and democrat) politicians to change, that did not object to Obama doing the same thing, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

[San Marlindo]

Then we need to completely cut off unemployment coverage. Also this explains the vagrancy problems, all along I thought I was giving to the needy, now I find they're just bums who refuse to work

Eh, the illegal immigrants that actually did the rough manual labor in rough conditions are not being replaced fast enough by American citizens. The tend to complain about the working conditions more often, quit at a hell of a higher rate than illegal aliens, tend to ask for perks like health insurance, vacation days, and sick days. And most important of all, they are asking for a hell of lot of a higher wage than illegal immigrants.

I’m all for building the way, but these are the facts. Americans don’t want to do rough manual labor anymore.

Bullshit. You may not want to do rough manual labor any more, but don't claim to speak for the rest of us.

Some of us don't have the luxury of being picky about our jobs.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Post the quote where I said “We need immigrants to do work they(Americans) refuse to do.” I did not say “We need immigrants”. I said that Americans are refusing to do the job that illegal immigrants do. That’s it.

He said

U.S citizens don't want the jobs that immigrants are willing to do.

You seconded this here

Americans don’t want to do rough manual labor anymore.

Sorry if how I phrased it was taken to mean your political position on immigration. What I meant was that you were saying "we" (our industries) need (i.e. it's in high demand) a sort of labor only immigrants will provide

Yes, because Americans don’t want to work in the hot fields, clean up cow shit and other things for shit wages and no perks. They would rather work in a air conditioned place, clean up spilled milk for less shitter wages with shitty perks but hey, it’s atleast its some type of health insurance.

Unless you want to be like Communist countries that force people to work in a particular job. If thats the case, I question you self-concept of being a Conservative.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Eh, the illegal immigrants that actually did the rough manual labor in rough conditions are not being replaced fast enough by American citizens. The tend to complain about the working conditions more often, quit at a hell of a higher rate than illegal aliens, tend to ask for perks like health insurance, vacation days, and sick days. And most important of all, they are asking for a hell of lot of a higher wage than illegal immigrants.

I’m all for building the way, but these are the facts. Americans don’t want to do rough manual labor anymore.

Bullshit. You may not want to do rough manual labor any more, but don't claim to speak for the rest of us.

Some of us don't have the luxury of being picky about our jobs.

I don’t really like my job either bro, but Americans are not flocking to these jobs. If you show me data otherwise, fine. But until then, you’re an outlier.

[The Parkus Empire]

He said



You seconded this here



Sorry if how I phrased it was taken to mean your political position on immigration. What I meant was that you were saying "we" (our industries) need (i.e. it's in high demand) a sort of labor only immigrants will provide

Yes, because Americans don’t want to work in the hot fields, clean up cow shit and other things for shit wages and no perks. They would rather work in a air conditioned place, clean up spilled milk for less shitter wages with shitty perks but hey, it’s atleast its some type of health insurance.

Unless you want to be like Communist countries that force people to work in a particular job. If thats the case, I question you self-concept of being a Conservative.

I am saying we should stop much state assistance, since you're suggesting the able unemployed are simply refusing to work

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Yes, because Americans don’t want to work in the hot fields, clean up cow shit and other things for shit wages and no perks. They would rather work in a air conditioned place, clean up spilled milk for less shitter wages with shitty perks but hey, it’s atleast its some type of health insurance.

Unless you want to be like Communist countries that force people to work in a particular job. If thats the case, I question you self-concept of being a Conservative.

I am saying we should stop much state assistance, since you're suggesting the able unemployed are simply refusing to work

Last time I’m typing this. I’m saying that Americans are finding OTHER TYPES OF WORK BESIDES THESE PARTICULAR JOBS. Sure, there are some Americans willing and able to do these type of jobs but the data shows they are not flocking to these jobs.

[Hatterleigh]

Just like to mention that lots of the "families" crossing the border are actually child-trafficking organizations.

[American Nazism]

I really think that obviously there should be no breaking up families. This has been happening even before the Trump administration, but before, they would deport them back within a week. I think that should remain the case now. Any new illegal immigrants must be immediately deported. No questions, no comments, no concerns. That is the ONLY WAY we can stop illegal immigration and get rid of this whole issue. We put our foot down and say enough is enough. As far those in the country right now, those who have committed a serious crime, deported. Others stay, but not full citizenship, just permanent residency. You don't get to be apart of a country's political future by entering it illegally. Ensure employers do not discriminate based on their permanent residency status. If beyond this point people still continue to come to this country illegally, they will be deported and never, EVER, allowed back into the United States. We need to set our foot down somewhere. This is where I believe we should. I think this would be a good compromise, as Democrats would be able to get their view for illegals to be given permanent status, and Republicans would get their strict border control and deporting all illegal immigrants from here on out. Anyone agree with me?

p.s. When I say permanent residency, that means permanent residency, not citizenship. That means they have to pay taxes, but they can't vote, which is what I mean by being unable to decide a country's political future. Also, there should be seminars and vocational training for them. And they should be taught English, and encourage them to speak it. It is (well should be, as the federal government has not recognized any official language, which I think is a really bad idea. By the way, I do support people going out and learning a second language, whether that be Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, etc.) the language of this country.

[NeoOasis]

Just like to mention that lots of the "families" crossing the border are actually child-trafficking organizations.

Got a source on that? Cause it sounds like there are a lot of desparate parents risking life and limb to try and give their child a better life.

[Costa Fierro]

Seems the order has been given for children to not be separated from there parents. Seems public outcry helped change the ruling.

Since the start of this year, 11000 kids had been separated from there parents.

And tens of thousands more will still be split from at least one of their parents thanks to the terrible family courts system.

[Herskerstad]

This Executive Order highlights the issue here, it effectively means the children stay with their families.. in jail.. which can only last 20 days before they need to be released.

It's testament to Trump's shallow understanding that he's made a huge noise about an intractable issue, he can't solve it and it will haunt his administration. What will happen when those 20 days are up?

He's stuck with an issue he made.

Makes me wonder if they will be separated again. And how will they go about reuniting families?

Plus people took issue with a companion of the internment centers or whatever word they choose to use being like Auschwitz and while that may have been a bridge to far the policy of separating children is Nazi like. When the Jews and other people deemed undesirable where brought to the train station they were often separated and sent to different camps.

The policy came out of the ninth circuit court, literally the most liberal court in the US, over the previous policy of having the children with the parents during processing due to it's jail-like conditions and rather having them temporarily resettled with relatives.

If anyone believes that it was nazi policy to temporarily resettle the children of illegal Jews entering their nation then that person is beyond wrong and more likely going into hysterics than engaging in valid comparison. If it became US policy to simply take Latino children away and separate them at camps where they would be gassed, that would be another thing, but the left needs to make up it's mind if they want the children to be with the family during processing and the conditions that entail, or with the relatives until said processing is done. Needless to say, the process of processing is not going to be removed.

[Shaggtopia]

Let's put aside the RL context for a moment an look at the actual question. Should Families Be Seperated? I can't speak for anyone else when I say No. I love my family, my parents are why I even exist and I am damn lucky to know a little about where I come from. So to me it's unconscionable to deprive another person of that against their will or when they are too young to have any concrete idea what is happening to them. On a broader scale think about how ten years down the road there is a very real chance we as a people will have to answer questions like "Do the parents have a right to see their children?" Or "do the children have a right to see their parents?"... It's too much like a mass kidnapping for me to be at all comfortable with the situation.

[Shaggtopia]

I am surprised that Trump has done something aimed at solving it. I don't know if it will actually change anything because his word means nothing but it's opened the possibility of an improvement.

If it works, it shows that if democrats and independents voice their disapproval enough, they can force republican politicians to change. If this issue was left to the conscience of republican voters, those children would be in cages until they had their own kids.

You mean the same democrats that were willing to throw the children under the bus in the name of partisan politicking?

Yes, but everybody with a bias is guilty of partisan politicking. That's the majority of conversation from where I sit. republicans say fuck the democrats and democrats say fuck the republicans then everybody else gets fucked because the elephants and jackasses filibustered again so no solutions where made regarding cleaning up another horrific mess. How's the taps in Flint Michigan?

[Conserative Morality]

Modern political discourse RIP

[Costa Fierro]

(Image)

Modern political discourse RIP

All those "TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER" posts were the final nail in the coffin.

[Costa Fierro]

Let's put aside the RL context for a moment an look at the actual question. Should Families Be Seperated? I can't speak for anyone else when I say No. I love my family, my parents are why I even exist and I am damn lucky to know a little about where I come from. So to me it's unconscionable to deprive another person of that against their will or when they are too young to have any concrete idea what is happening to them. On a broader scale think about how ten years down the road there is a very real chance we as a people will have to answer questions like "Do the parents have a right to see their children?" Or "do the children have a right to see their parents?"... It's too much like a mass kidnapping for me to be at all comfortable with the situation.

Just imagine how we could reform the family court system with this much manufactured outrage. Sadly I'm being too optimistic about the general public being consistent on what is morally outrageous and what isn't.

[Conserative Morality]

All those "TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER" posts were the final nail in the coffin.

Yes, I am sure that is what made you lot start literally defending concentration camps but balking at being called out on it. Surely this is not merely the normalization of views you were scared to voice before, especially since you're supporting a state of affairs but pussing out and trying to make it sound more socially acceptable even now, because the kind of people who support this are cowards.

[Purgatio]

Families are separated whenever criminals are prosecuted under the full force of the law. It is the result of the fact that children under the age of criminal responsibility, for obvious reasons, cannot be prosecuted for criminal activity. When parents who commit crimes are prosecuted and imprisoned, they are separated from their children. Its inevitable. I've never heard anyone suggest we stop prosecuting every single criminal who happens to have children, just because it will result in family separation.

For the people who say illegal border crossings are so 'trivial' an offence that they do not warrant prosecution (but only 'catch and release' policies), that point of view is going to lead to a ridiculous slippery slope. Arguing that this or that crime is too 'trivial' to warrant imprisonment is an impossible argument to win, people are always going to disagree about whether flouting idiosyncratic health and safety regulations, or specific financial regulatory laws, or driving without auto insurance, or failing to get your kids vaccinated, or travelling on an expired passport, or failing to renew a business licence, or driving on an expired driving licence, does or does not warrant prosecution and detention. At the end of the day, we prosecute criminals because it vindicates the rule of law, simple as that. Don't expect people to cry over it.

Immigration isn’t the same as normal jurice prudence. It has its own courts, it’s own precedent, and it’s own mandates. The two are not the same, and the justification argument that’s been forth this way is a sophist one, as it’s not an apt comparison.

Regardless of whether a different court/tribunal system deals with illegal immigration, the fact remains that "improper entry of alien" is still a criminal offence under federal law (Title 8 of the United States Code), so the comparison remains apt. If you commit a crime, you should be prosecuted, regardless of whether or not you have children. The DOJ can exercise prosecutorial discretion and not prosecute you (which is what former DOJs did through 'catch and release') but if this administration believes it is necessary for deterrence and vindicating the rule of law to prosecute these criminals, then that's exactly what should happen.

[Costa Fierro]

Yes, I am sure that is what made you lot start literally defending concentration camps but balking at being called out on it.

My lot? Where have I made such statements that support such policies?

[Conserative Morality]

Yes, I am sure that is what made you lot start literally defending concentration camps but balking at being called out on it.

My lot? Where have I made such statements that support such policies?

"It's manufactured outrage to be angry about kids being held in concentration camps" - CF

"B-b-but I'm not in support of these policies!" - Also CF