The Ramadan Discussion | Pros n’ Cons

[Frievolk]

Fasting for medical reasons is assisted suicide tho. No doctor worth his salt will ever tell you "don't eat anything from dawn till dusk, then gorge yourself on food after that, before you go to sleep"
That can, and does, have devastating effects on your body. And you're missing the entire point of fasting. You don't fast because "it's good for your health" (if a doctor says that, they're 100% lying. there's no debate on that), you fast because god told you you should fast. That's all there is to it. Spiritual issues, not medical.

Some do, actually. And fasting is healthy, so Ramadan isn't really bad for your health. Unless you're diabetic, but then you just don't fast.

IT isn't healthy. Literally no doctor worth his salt would tell you refraining from eating or drinking for about 18 hours is healthy. If your doctor does, change your doctor. He literally wants to kill you.

[Frievolk]

Medically speaking, the solution to "you eat a lot" isn't "don't eat anything for the majority of your biological clock's awakening time and then leave everything to be digested as you sleep" (As you know, that is in fact, bad for your health). It's generally accepted to be "eat but eat the stuff that your doctor tells you, in the intervals your doctor tells you". And no doctor worth his doctorate will unironically tell you "don't eat anything or drink anything from dawn till dusk then gorge yourself on food at dusk after saying your prayers"

I've seen limiting food intake to certain times of day suggested by health professionals. "Gorge yourself after you say your prayers" was not part of the medical advice, but I have seen it suggested that one reason why people are having such trouble with obesity is because they snack all day so they're basically constantly eating.

Nutritional science is an area where we still have a lot to learn, and there are plenty of competing schools of thought even among professionals. It's difficult to study because it's difficult to keep track of what people are actually eating. Many studies rely on self-reporting, but this isn't reliable because people may forget some of the things they ate or purposely omit stuff they feel guilty about eating.

Diets are different than fasting. Fasting requires zero food and drinking for a long period. Islam is actually liberal in that, since some other religions tell you to refrain from eating or drinking for more than 24 hours. But that's still not healthy. Diets require a certain level of nutrient intake. They might decrease how much you eat, but they never bar you from eating. much less drinking. You actually need water a lot more than you need food. Telling a person to intentionally refrain from eating water for a period as long as Islam does is actually harmful (In Iran, the time between the Salah al-fajr and the Salah al Isha, the period you're supposed to fast in, is 04:02 and 20:44. That's almost more than 14 hours in and of itself.)

[Infected Mushroom]

Forcing children to observe Ramadan (aka starve them) is a form of child abuse. I don’t think anything can overcome this big Con.

[-Ocelot-]

Pro: Iftars are probably delicious. Hunger is the best sauce.
Con: Fasting is generally stupid at best and potentially dangerous.

Fasting can actually be really good for your health depending on how you do it. Intermittent fasting in particular (16hr-1day) is believed to have very positive effects on people with carb-heavy diets.

[Tairin]

Con 1. Nutrition
So, Ramadan is a one-month period. Although during the holy month, people do not get to eat for a whole month, which is potentially damaging to health. They are not able to eat for the whole month.. Note: I am not criticising Ramadan.

The underlined rather suggests that you don't know much about Ramadan,

Muslims aren't allowed to eat and drink during daylight hours for a lunar month.

They can eat and drink as much as they want to between sunset and sunrise.

Indeed, Ramadan iftars - the post-sunset nightly meals - can be so lavish that many Muslims gain weight during Ramadan.

I agree with that

[USS Monitor]

I've seen limiting food intake to certain times of day suggested by health professionals. "Gorge yourself after you say your prayers" was not part of the medical advice, but I have seen it suggested that one reason why people are having such trouble with obesity is because they snack all day so they're basically constantly eating.

Nutritional science is an area where we still have a lot to learn, and there are plenty of competing schools of thought even among professionals. It's difficult to study because it's difficult to keep track of what people are actually eating. Many studies rely on self-reporting, but this isn't reliable because people may forget some of the things they ate or purposely omit stuff they feel guilty about eating.

Diets are different than fasting. Fasting requires zero food and drinking for a long period. Islam is actually liberal in that, since some other religions tell you to refrain from eating or drinking for more than 24 hours. But that's still not healthy. Diets require a certain level of nutrient intake. They might decrease how much you eat, but they never bar you from eating. much less drinking. You actually need water a lot more than you need food. Telling a person to intentionally refrain from eating water for a period as long as Islam does is actually harmful (In Iran, the time between the Salah al-fajr and the Salah al Isha, the period you're supposed to fast in, is 04:02 and 20:44. That's almost more than 14 hours in and of itself.)

Believe it or not, I do know what the conversation was about, so you can get off your high horse and cut out the condescending vocabulary lesson. Most diets are overrated from a health standpoint, but unless you're talking about one that is based on intermittent fasting, they're not relevant to this thread.

If you actually read the link Nana posted, you'd see where it acknowledges that there are risks to fasting for Ramadan as well as the potential benefits -- and yet they still find benefits. It's a lot more balanced and well-informed than you just pulling stuff out of your ass and screeching about what a terrible doctor someone must be if they disagree with you. Nobody is arguing that we should all start celebrating Ramadan for the health benefits even if we're not Muslim, just that fasting can have an upside.

Some do, actually. And fasting is healthy, so Ramadan isn't really bad for your health. Unless you're diabetic, but then you just don't fast.

IT isn't healthy. Literally no doctor worth his salt would tell you refraining from eating or drinking for about 18 hours is healthy. If your doctor does, change your doctor. He literally wants to kill you.

If Dr. Strange wants to kill me, I am sure he has a good reason. I am not going to change doctors because you can't trust just anybody to look after a sapient ironclad.

[Frievolk]

The underlined rather suggests that you don't know much about Ramadan,

Muslims aren't allowed to eat and drink during daylight hours for a lunar month.

They can eat and drink as much as they want to between sunset and sunrise.

Indeed, Ramadan iftars - the post-sunset nightly meals - can be so lavish that many Muslims gain weight during Ramadan.

I agree with that

I too can attest to that. Iftar in Iran can be twice as lavish as an average lunch or dinner (like, not only would it include full lunch meals, it'd include breakfast meals such as bread and cheese, as well as different sweets)

[The Alma Mater]

I agree with that

I too can attest to that. Iftar in Iran can be twice as lavish as an average lunch or dinner (like, not only would it include full lunch meals, it'd include breakfast meals such as bread and cheese, as well as different sweets)

Is the point not to save money and donate that to the poor ?

[The Archregimancy]

If they didnt eat for the whole month they would all starve to death. Its only during daylight hours, before and after that they go fucking ham on the food.

Pretty sure there's no ham involved.

I'm pretty sure there is.

There's no pork ham, but beef and turkey ham are a thing in the Islamic world.

[The Archregimancy]

Car crashes spike during Ramadan in Muslim communities.

Even more specifically, they spike the hour before and after sunset.

Trust me, you don't want to be on the road in Dubai just before or after sunset during Ramadan.

Sensible people arguably don't drive at all in the UAE if they can avoid it; but just before or after sunset, as people are dashing about to reach an iftar after hours of fasting, is a notoriously dangerous period to be on the road.

[Garden at 6th Mile Road]

Car crashes spike during Ramadan in Muslim communities.

Even more specifically, they spike the hour before and after sunset.

Trust me, you don't want to be on the road in Dubai just before or after sunset during Ramadan.

Sensible people arguably don't drive at all in the UAE if they can avoid it; but just before or after sunset, as people are dashing about to reach an iftar after hours of fasting, is a notoriously dangerous period to be on the road.

Other than car crashes, I assume that you would want to be near a restaurant before sunset? It can get mightly crowded, as was the case with all the Halal food places in Singapore here.

[The Archregimancy]

Even more specifically, they spike the hour before and after sunset.

Trust me, you don't want to be on the road in Dubai just before or after sunset during Ramadan.

Sensible people arguably don't drive at all in the UAE if they can avoid it; but just before or after sunset, as people are dashing about to reach an iftar after hours of fasting, is a notoriously dangerous period to be on the road.

Other than car crashes, I assume that you would want to be near a restaurant before sunset? It can get mightly crowded, as was the case with all the Halal food places in Singapore here.

I wasn't really thinking about restaurants. I can't speak for Singapore, but in the UAE most Muslims are dashing to a family home or iftar tent rather than a restaurant.

[Uxupox]

Pro: I can't think of any universe in which there would be a pro to Fasting. In Islamic Countries you can't execute people in Ramadan so I guess the only pro is that some people get to live longer? I guess?

Intermittent fasting can have health benefits. There are improvements to cholesterol levels and insulin sensitivity.

It's not something that I would do because my job is physically demanding, and doing it when I am hungry is just not going to work for me, but apparently some people get good results.

My job is also very physically demanding (which granted stop me doing 48 hour fasts) but it does not impede me from doing IF.

[Uxupox]

Pro: Iftars are probably delicious. Hunger is the best sauce.
Con: Fasting is generally stupid at best and potentially dangerous.

Fasting can actually be really good for your health depending on how you do it. Intermittent fasting in particular (16hr-1day) is believed to have very positive effects on people with carb-heavy diets.

Honestly it also works wonders on keto and heavy protein diets.

[Garden at 6th Mile Road]

I wasn't really thinking about restaurants. I can't speak for Singapore, but in the UAE most Muslims are dashing to a family home or iftar tent rather than a restaurant.

Ooh, I see. It's a mixture of both here - a lot of families eat out, while some went to a family home.

With that said, one con about fasting during your conscription days: You will get tired easily.

The non-Muslims will get their food as usual, but the Muslims will have their breakfast early, then went back to the bunk to sleep off for an hour or so. We have to look out for them, because in the event that they got too exhausted from the exercises, we have to put them aside to let them rest. Fortunately... no major cases of heat exhaustion or tiredness from my platoon in those days.

[Uxupox]

Some do, actually. And fasting is healthy, so Ramadan isn't really bad for your health. Unless you're diabetic, but then you just don't fast.

IT isn't healthy. Literally no doctor worth his salt would tell you refraining from eating or drinking for about 18 hours is healthy. If your doctor does, change your doctor. He literally wants to kill you.

I trust webmd and ncbi over your non proven assumptions.

[Frievolk]

I too can attest to that. Iftar in Iran can be twice as lavish as an average lunch or dinner (like, not only would it include full lunch meals, it'd include breakfast meals such as bread and cheese, as well as different sweets)

Is the point not to save money and donate that to the poor ?

Not really. That came out a lot later after they started feeling the need to justify personal torture and 'but why?' became a popular response. The Sawm is supposedly a religious rite and has a purely spiritual reasoning (becoming closer to god and stuff like that)

[Ifreann]

Pretty sure there's no ham involved.

I'm pretty sure there is.

There's no pork ham, but beef and turkey ham are a thing in the Islamic world.

Truly meat science is more advanced than I could possibly have imagined.

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IT isn't healthy. Literally no doctor worth his salt would tell you refraining from eating or drinking for about 18 hours is healthy. If your doctor does, change your doctor. He literally wants to kill you.

I trust webmd and ncbi over your non proven assumptions.

WebMD, the thing that tells people that every symptom points to cancer?

[Uxupox]

I'm pretty sure there is.

There's no pork ham, but beef and turkey ham are a thing in the Islamic world.

Truly meat science is more advanced than I could possibly have imagined.

---

I trust webmd and ncbi over your non proven assumptions.

WebMD, the thing that tells people that every symptom points to cancer?

Who to trust an NSG lad or a proven credible health source backed with factual information and studies?

[Garden at 6th Mile Road]

I trust webmd and ncbi over your non proven assumptions.

WebMD, the thing that tells people that every symptom points to cancer?

WebMD - I'm not saying that it's cancer, but... it's cancer.

On a serious note, rather than trusting WebMD and NCBI (which I admit are reliable for the most parts), you should definitely check with your own local doctors. I mean, the websites' medical advise is only for general purposes, not for precise diagnosis.

Getting back to topic, I fasted (sp?) before, though it was more for Buddhism causes. It's not so bad if you are relaxing and chilling out for the most of the fasting period. Still, I think it would cause an upset stomach from time to time, especially if you didn't manage to eat enough before the fast.

[Frievolk]

Truly meat science is more advanced than I could possibly have imagined.

---

WebMD, the thing that tells people that every symptom points to cancer?

Who to trust an NSG lad or a proven credible health source backed with factual information and studies?

>WebMD
>Factual Information and Studies
seriously?

[Uxupox]

Who to trust an NSG lad or a proven credible health source backed with factual information and studies?

>WebMD
>Factual Information and Studies
seriously?

Supported by URAC and other assorted outstanding health organizations. ))

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Some do, actually. And fasting is healthy, so Ramadan isn't really bad for your health. Unless you're diabetic, but then you just don't fast.

IT isn't healthy. Literally no doctor worth his salt would tell you refraining from eating or drinking for about 18 hours is healthy. If your doctor does, change your doctor. He literally wants to kill you.

The length of time in which Muslims cannot eat during Ramadan depends on their latitude, which determines the length of day and night. (I've always wondered what Muslims at whichever pole is in permanent daylight during Ramadan, in this year's case the North Pole, would do)

[Starblaydia]

I'm pretty sure there is.

There's no pork ham, but beef and turkey ham are a thing in the Islamic world.

Truly meat science is more advanced than I could possibly have imagined.

Unfortunately neither are particularly tasty, imho, and only serve to prove the flavour supremacy of pork-based products.

[Frievolk]

Truly meat science is more advanced than I could possibly have imagined.

Unfortunately neither are particularly tasty, imho, and only serve to prove the flavour supremacy of pork-based products.

They solely exist because Muslims torture themselves by refusing to eat pig meat. Cow Bacon also exists for that very reason.