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Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is the best libertarian ideology?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Classical liberalism
32
48%
Minarchism
6
9%
Anarcho-capitalism
3
5%
Bakunin's anarchism
5
8%
Anarcho-syndicalism
11
17%
Other/Anarcho-statism
9
14%
 
Total votes : 66

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53352
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:46 am

Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Idk shit about the LWM but the first two certainly do.


Entirely wrong, Rojava and the Zapatistas movement are amazing :^)


Entirely wrong friendo, both should be crushed with overwhelming military force :^]
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3368
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Frievolk » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:49 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:That depends on which party you want to believe really. Plenty of groups say "Yeah it happened" and plenty say "No", such is the nature of Syria nowadays.

So wouldn't it make more sense to at least say "allegations of ethnic cleansing", or "calls for ethnic cleansing" (both of which are, admittedly, true, due to the nature of what's happening in Syria right now) than to say "attempts at ethnic cleansing" (which is, as far as I'm aware, not)?

Torrocca wrote:I think the only thing that actually happened was that some Kurdish nationalists called for the removing of Arabs from Kurdish land, but literally nothing beyond that.
The problem with that is that Rojava isn't a united faction. The Democratic Federation of Northern Syria is made of different groups, and only the YPG/J are actually Libsocs. The rest are anarchists, Kurdish Nationalists, Anti-Assads, former ISIS who're now pissed and want revenge, and anything inbetween. And, well, the actual Economy of the DFNS isn't as socialist as Occalan himself called for, if what I read was true.
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Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:49 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Entirely wrong, Rojava and the Zapatistas movement are amazing :^)


Entirely wrong friendo, both should be crushed with overwhelming military force :^]


False again friendo, the eternal red spectre shall shield these beautiful, free lands forever from statist harm :^)))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3368
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Frievolk » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:50 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Entirely wrong, Rojava and the Zapatistas movement are amazing :^)


Entirely wrong friendo, both should be crushed with overwhelming military force :^]

TFW you're so libertarian you support military action by a fascist regime (which, Assad's Syria definitely is) against a group of anti-Authoritarian protesters.
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Part-time Anarchist
Anti-Monotheist
Iranian Nationalist
Templates
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53352
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:52 am

Frievolk wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:That depends on which party you want to believe really. Plenty of groups say "Yeah it happened" and plenty say "No", such is the nature of Syria nowadays.

So wouldn't it make more sense to at least say "allegations of ethnic cleansing", or "calls for ethnic cleansing" (both of which are, admittedly, true, due to the nature of what's happening in Syria right now) than to say "attempts at ethnic cleansing" (which is, as far as I'm aware, not)?


Eh, probably. Though I imagine it would get tiring to constantly have to put "allegations" in front of everything when it comes to Syria because of the constant conflicting reports.

Frievolk wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Entirely wrong friendo, both should be crushed with overwhelming military force :^]

TFW you're so libertarian you support military action by a fascist regime (which, Assad's Syria definitely is) against a group of anti-Authoritarian protesters.


tbqh we should give Assad hundreds of tactical nukes, it can be the first step towards global Ultranational Posadism
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:59 am

Frievolk wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:That depends on which party you want to believe really. Plenty of groups say "Yeah it happened" and plenty say "No", such is the nature of Syria nowadays.

So wouldn't it make more sense to at least say "allegations of ethnic cleansing", or "calls for ethnic cleansing" (both of which are, admittedly, true, due to the nature of what's happening in Syria right now) than to say "attempts at ethnic cleansing" (which is, as far as I'm aware, not)?

Torrocca wrote:I think the only thing that actually happened was that some Kurdish nationalists called for the removing of Arabs from Kurdish land, but literally nothing beyond that.
The problem with that is that Rojava isn't a united faction. The Democratic Federation of Northern Syria is made of different groups, and only the YPG/J are actually Libsocs. The rest are anarchists, Kurdish Nationalists, Anti-Assads, former ISIS who're now pissed and want revenge, and anything inbetween. And, well, the actual Economy of the DFNS isn't as socialist as Occalan himself called for, if what I read was true.


AFAIK no former ISIS members have joined Rojava, but rather the Turkish-backed FSA (which is now working in cooperation with Turkey to crush Rojava, sadly).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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The Liberated Territories
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Posts: 11858
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Liberated Territories » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:18 am

Torrocca wrote:Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.


And all of them were failures
"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
—Robert Heinlein

a libertarian, which means i want poor babies to die or smth

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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3368
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Frievolk » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:21 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.


And all of them were failures

But they existed. People believed in their ideals enough to try and establish it in reality. They didn't do well, but historically speaking, they still rose and tried it, with some difference, later.
which is more than what you can really say about Right-Libs.
OOC
Libertarian Constitutionalist
Part-time Anarchist
Anti-Monotheist
Iranian Nationalist
Templates
♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik
♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne
♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt
Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.

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Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12369
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:29 am

Frievolk wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
And all of them were failures

But they existed. People believed in their ideals enough to try and establish it in reality. They didn't do well, but historically speaking, they still rose and tried it, with some difference, later.
which is more than what you can really say about Right-Libs.

Right-libertarians apply their ideals to existing communities, for the most part; and, of course, there's less in the way of right-wing anarchism.
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

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Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 10958
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:30 am

We should do a new poll once this one ends. I'm thinking we should do something on immigration.
A Golden Civic: The New Pragmatic Libertarian
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Retired Admin in NSGS and NS Parliament

Accountant, Author, History Buff, Political Junkie
“Has ambition so eclipsed principle?” ~ Mitt Romney
"Try not to become a person of success, but rather try to become a person of value." ~ Albert Einstein
"Trust, but verify." ~ Ronald Reagan

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:32 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.


And all of them were failures


Someone missed the current, active communities that aren't failing at the moment :^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53352
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:35 am

Torrocca wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
And all of them were failures


Someone missed the current, active communities that aren't failing at the moment :^)


>mfw the first picture seen on the article is some garbage looking building in Detroit

When that's the posterchild for your side I think it's time to call it quits friendo lol
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:36 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Someone missed the current, active communities that aren't failing at the moment :^)


>mfw the first picture seen on the article is some garbage looking building in Detroit

When that's the posterchild for your side I think it's time to call it quits friendo lol


At least that poster-child has more character to it than one of the thousands of bland, glass-faced skyscrapers that've come to represent Capitalism recently.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53352
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:38 am

Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
>mfw the first picture seen on the article is some garbage looking building in Detroit

When that's the posterchild for your side I think it's time to call it quits friendo lol


At least that poster-child has more character to it than one of the thousands of bland, glass-faced skyscrapers that've come to represent Capitalism recently.


On that we're agreed. We need to fully embrace monumental architecture and build some truly awe inspiring cities imo.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:38 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
At least that poster-child has more character to it than one of the thousands of bland, glass-faced skyscrapers that've come to represent Capitalism recently.


On that we're agreed. We need to fully embrace monumental architecture and build some truly awe inspiring cities imo.


Good luck convincing the megacorps friendo. The free artists of the anarchist movements will be better swayed to those ideas :^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53352
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:40 am

Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
On that we're agreed. We need to fully embrace monumental architecture and build some truly awe inspiring cities imo.


Good luck convincing the megacorps friendo. The free artists of the anarchist movements will be better swayed to those ideas :^)


The megacorps will just have their wealth seized by force and used to rebuild the capital building but 10 times larger, it'll be glorious comrade :^]
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Firaxin
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1324
Founded: Sep 28, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Firaxin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:51 am

Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
>mfw the first picture seen on the article is some garbage looking building in Detroit

When that's the posterchild for your side I think it's time to call it quits friendo lol


At least that poster-child has more character to it than one of the thousands of bland, glass-faced skyscrapers that've come to represent Capitalism recently.

Hey I like glass buildings, add more black concrete and neon and you've got the best building. Let's not put it together with capitalism.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:53 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Good luck convincing the megacorps friendo. The free artists of the anarchist movements will be better swayed to those ideas :^)


The megacorps will just have their wealth seized by force and used to rebuild the capital building but 10 times larger, it'll be glorious comrade :^]


Now we're thinking with Anarchism!

Firaxin wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
At least that poster-child has more character to it than one of the thousands of bland, glass-faced skyscrapers that've come to represent Capitalism recently.

Hey I like glass buildings, add more black concrete and neon and you've got the best building. Let's not put it together with capitalism.


Well, they're very good for window-smashing AntiFa shenanigans :^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12369
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Proctopeo » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:55 am

Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The megacorps will just have their wealth seized by force and used to rebuild the capital building but 10 times larger, it'll be glorious comrade :^]


Now we're thinking with Anarchism!

Firaxin wrote:Hey I like glass buildings, add more black concrete and neon and you've got the best building. Let's not put it together with capitalism.


Well, they're very good for window-smashing AntiFa shenanigans :^)

NICE TRY, KRABS, BUT WE REPLACED ALL THE GLASS WITH RUBBER!
Arachno-anarchism || NO GODS NO MASTERS || Free NSG Odreria

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:56 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Now we're thinking with Anarchism!



Well, they're very good for window-smashing AntiFa shenanigans :^)

NICE TRY, KRABS, BUT WE REPLACED ALL THE GLASS WITH RUBBER!


Nice try, Penguin, but I always come prepared with Bat-Rubber Repellent in my Bat Utility Belt!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Elwher
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7351
Founded: May 24, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Elwher » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:38 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Good luck convincing the megacorps friendo. The free artists of the anarchist movements will be better swayed to those ideas :^)


The megacorps will just have their wealth seized by force and used to rebuild the capital building but 10 times larger, it'll be glorious comrade :^]


And that is the typical answer on the left...wait till someone else gets something then steal it.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53352
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:41 am

Elwher wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The megacorps will just have their wealth seized by force and used to rebuild the capital building but 10 times larger, it'll be glorious comrade :^]


And that is the typical answer on the left...wait till someone else gets something then steal it.


I'm no leftist comrade, I've just come to realize that megacorporation's and such things are as bad for the nation as communists and other such fifth columnists.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27688
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:51 am

Elwher wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The megacorps will just have their wealth seized by force and used to rebuild the capital building but 10 times larger, it'll be glorious comrade :^]


And that is the typical answer on the left...wait till someone else gets something then steal it.


The best instance of that, AKA Revolutionary Catalonia, saw widespread, rapid improvements to socioeconomic conditions for everyone across the board.

A little bit of a revolution's not a bad idea when it's poised to make things better.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Elwher
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7351
Founded: May 24, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Elwher » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:08 am

Torrocca wrote:
Elwher wrote:
And that is the typical answer on the left...wait till someone else gets something then steal it.


The best instance of that, AKA Revolutionary Catalonia, saw widespread, rapid improvements to socioeconomic conditions for everyone across the board.

A little bit of a revolution's not a bad idea when it's poised to make things better.


Except for those whose property was seized in the name of the proletariat, that is.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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Doosh
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Jun 11, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Doosh » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:34 pm

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:But it's also, at the same time, justifying the slavery by proxy by pulling stuff out of my ass. You shouldn't be happy about a high HDI built off the back of slavery and human rights abuses.

ftfy, your projection here is so incredible that I think you may very well display Infinity War on my TV screen


I'm alarmed by Torrocca's foursquare advocacy of child molestation. By proxy, of course.

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