Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

[Darussalam]

Revolutionary Catalonia, m8e.

As an example of what, exactly? 20th Century Spain was agrarian and poor (synonymous, really).

[Torrocca]

Revolutionary Catalonia, m8e.

As an example of what, exactly? 20th Century Spain was agrarian and poor (synonymous, really).

A solution to a problem (namely, the problem of Capitalist bullshittery). Goes to show the left has a better means of solving socioeconomic issues than the right does :^)

[Washington Resistance Army]

As an example of what, exactly? 20th Century Spain was agrarian and poor (synonymous, really).

A solution to a problem (namely, the problem of Capitalist bullshittery). Goes to show the left has a better means of solving socioeconomic issues than the right does :^)

Shame the one example of the left finally doing something right fell apart and died once someone else came along to take their stuff, it's almost like anarcho anything is doomed to fail :^]

[Torrocca]

A solution to a problem (namely, the problem of Capitalist bullshittery). Goes to show the left has a better means of solving socioeconomic issues than the right does :^)

Shame the one example of the left finally doing something right fell apart and died once someone else came along to take their stuff, it's almost like anarcho anything is doomed to fail :^]

Militant reactionaries, Stalinists, and leftist infighting has a tendency to ruin good shit :^)

[Proctopeo]

Shame the one example of the left finally doing something right fell apart and died once someone else came along to take their stuff, it's almost like anarcho anything is doomed to fail :^]

Militant reactionaries, Stalinists, and leftist infighting has a tendency to ruin good shit :^)

This is what I find funny about the left and the right - the left likes to fight itself over slight ideological differences, while rightists with totally different views can at least be in the same room without pulling out the garrote.

[Torrocca]

Militant reactionaries, Stalinists, and leftist infighting has a tendency to ruin good shit :^)

This is what I find funny about the left and the right - the left likes to fight itself over slight ideological differences, while rightists with totally different views can at least be in the same room without pulling out the garrote.

A strongman in charge is a strongman in charge, regardless of title, so of course rightists'll band together. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Proctopeo]

This is what I find funny about the left and the right - the left likes to fight itself over slight ideological differences, while rightists with totally different views can at least be in the same room without pulling out the garrote.

A strongman in charge is a strongman in charge, regardless of title, so of course rightists'll band together. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't really understand what you're saying here...
Did you get the authoritarian/libertarian and left/right axes mixed up again?

[Torrocca]

A strongman in charge is a strongman in charge, regardless of title, so of course rightists'll band together. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't really understand what you're saying here...
Did you get the authoritarian/libertarian and left/right axes mixed up again?

Even CEOs are strongmen in charge, in a way. :^)

[Proctopeo]

I don't really understand what you're saying here...
Did you get the authoritarian/libertarian and left/right axes mixed up again?

Even CEOs are strongmen in charge, in a way. :^)

If we're stretching to "in a sense", everything but that very tiny corner at the extremes of libertarianism and leftism is free of strongmen. Never go into the deep corners.

[Torrocca]

Even CEOs are strongmen in charge, in a way. :^)

If we're stretching to "in a sense", everything but that very tiny corner at the extremes of libertarianism and leftism is free of strongmen. Never go into the deep corners.

THIS TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES, BABY, CHOO-CHOO

[Proctopeo]

If we're stretching to "in a sense", everything but that very tiny corner at the extremes of libertarianism and leftism is free of strongmen. Never go into the deep corners.

THIS TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES, BABY, CHOO-CHOO

buys the Train Breaks DLC for 0.002 BTC

[Torrocca]

THIS TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES, BABY, CHOO-CHOO

buys the Train Breaks DLC for 0.002 BTC

All you had to do was catch the damn train, CJ!

[Mattopilos II]

FRED (Federal Reserve Economic Data) from St. Louis Fed. Pretty top tier data source, I recommend it.

Note taken.

The jitteriness comes from the fact that the American economy wasn't that smooth until ~1960s. I've ran a growth volatility model for the US economy from 1792 to 2016 and volatility was extremely high in the early and mid 1900s.

Guess it makes sense given the points in time the volatility jumped straight up - war and recession does that to your economy (I assume).

It does. Today I've compared unemployment figures with net capital investment (public+private investment minus consumption of capital, such as depreciation). Slightly different data, but the r^2 and correlation are extremely strong except for recessionary periods where both weaken but the positive effect of investment on employment figures still stands.

Hmm, true.

tbf I'd like to cutdown on red tape, corptax, general govt spending, pay off the debt and then balance the budgets to turn US a more business-friendly environment. On regards to the distribution of savings across the income levels, the poorest usually save less not only due to their worse income, but a huge part of it can be also blamed on Social Security -- that steals 14.2% of people's paycheck to feed a low-return Ponzi scheme.

What about social welfare do you think leads to it being, in your own words, a "Ponzi scheme"? How would its removal lead to better results for the poor i.e. what consequences would result from abolishing social security...

According to my calc, S.S. has a real rate of return pricing around 1.5% p.a., while a 401k offers a real rate of return (in the long term) of 4% p.a. Using these numbers you reach to the conclusion that an American worker earning 30-45k yearly is losing more than 700 thousand dollars due to the disparity of the rate of return offered by both methods. While on it, there are several proposals to reform Social Security, but I personally endorse either Reisman's proposal or my own proposal. Feel free to check both

Scratch that, you want a reform of it, oops.
So I am guessing from a quick glance over both, the idea would be to start moving the money in social security slowly into a private retirement fund or similar, leaving some to the SSTF, with money slowly moving over a long period of time into private hands (the people with the pension) and away from government control (SS); this would result in the abolishment of SSTF and lead to purely private pension funds. Not a huge fan of increasing retirement age, however. It looks better than what we have, but that isn't saying much. The question of whether private institutions would not screw over pensioners is its own question, so checks and balances on that would have to exist without government intervention.

I took the total wage compensation in the US (something around 8.5 trillion currently) and divided by the total amount of employees. Since this is the average nominal salary, I corrected it with the CPI (or was it GDP deflator? Can't recall rn) and here ya go, average real salary.

Hmm, seems reasonable.

I mean, real wages tend to follow the overall state of the economy, though not a very tight relationship since it can be affected by external elements. It's interesting to note though that a huge part of the wage increases is being eaten by an increase on benefits that are partially burdened on the employer. Such benefits are not included in the raw wage data.

What does 'benefits' refer to here? A quick search would make me think things like health cover and the likes, yes? I would hope that stuff is covered lol - health insurance is damn expensive and I would fear people wouldn't be able to support themselves even with the job if it was placed on the employee.
I guess it would be hard to add given it is non-wage-related compensation, and the amount an individual uses of the benefits would shift that, I assume.
Again, would be interesting to see increases in wage based on class, or something similar (I am sure there are ways to get data of the same effect without saying "class" since that would be arbitrary).

Not sure if I got what you meant, rephrase it pls?

Hmm, might have melded the sentence awkwardly together there. Maybe this will be clearer: Do you tend to see a larger increase in wages for jobs deemed high risk over time compared to those deemed low risk? I was asking in relation to the theory in your previous post near the end.

[Mattopilos II]

Militant reactionaries, Stalinists, and leftist infighting has a tendency to ruin good shit :^)

This is what I find funny about the left and the right - the left likes to fight itself over slight ideological differences, while rightists with totally different views can at least be in the same room without pulling out the garrote.

For Spain, the issue was a certain Mustachio got a bit too hangry for control over the revolutionary effort and essentially screwed over the other leftist camps in the war.
Bolsheviks, not even once.

[Torrocca]

Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.

[Frievolk]

Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.

Technically, there are a few right-libertarian states around too. I mean, Asgardia and Liberland could be considered Lib-right communities.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.

And yet pretty much all those left-libertarian examples blow :^]

also wtf is with all the ethnic groups being listed lol

[Frievolk]

Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.

And yet pretty much all those left-libertarian examples blow :^]

also wtf is with all the ethnic groups being listed lol

>Rojava
>Blows

What are you comparing it to, Switzerland???

[Torrocca]

Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.

Technically, there are a few right-libertarian states around too. I mean, Asgardia and Liberland could be considered Lib-right communities.

Asgardia's literally nothing but an idea and Liberland's incredibly tiny and insignificant, with its only driving force being the citizenship it grants to people across the international community.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And yet pretty much all those left-libertarian examples blow :^]

also wtf is with all the ethnic groups being listed lol

>Rojava
>Blows

What are you comparing it to, Switzerland???

Rojava does blow (which isn't saying much for the region tbqh) and has such fun things like ethnic cleansing present in it. Thanks but no thanks.

[Torrocca]

Y'know, I just realized but, there's not a single Right-"""Libertarian""" community in existence today. Meanwhile, for us Left-Libertarians, the story is vastly different.

And yet pretty much all those left-libertarian examples blow :^]

also wtf is with all the ethnic groups being listed lol

>Rojava
>Zapatistas
>LWM
>"blows"

wra ur better than this pls

[Frievolk]

>Rojava
>Blows

What are you comparing it to, Switzerland???

Rojava does blow (which isn't saying much for the region tbqh) and has such fun things like ethnic cleansing present in it. Thanks but no thanks.

weren't the ethnic cleansing allegations proven to be total falsehoods? I am pretty sure they were, about the same time they started popping up.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And yet pretty much all those left-libertarian examples blow :^]

also wtf is with all the ethnic groups being listed lol

>Rojava
>Zapatistas
>LWM
>"blows"

wra ur better than this pls

Idk shit about the LWM but the first two certainly do.

Rojava does blow (which isn't saying much for the region tbqh) and has such fun things like ethnic cleansing present in it. Thanks but no thanks.

weren't the ethnic cleansing allegations proven to be total falsehoods? I am pretty sure they were, about the same time they started popping up.

That depends on which party you want to believe really. Plenty of groups say "Yeah it happened" and plenty say "No", such is the nature of Syria nowadays.

[Torrocca]

Rojava does blow (which isn't saying much for the region tbqh) and has such fun things like ethnic cleansing present in it. Thanks but no thanks.

weren't the ethnic cleansing allegations proven to be total falsehoods? I am pretty sure they were, about the same time they started popping up.

I think the only thing that actually happened was that some Kurdish nationalists called for the removing of Arabs from Kurdish land, but literally nothing beyond that.

[Torrocca]

>Rojava
>Zapatistas
>LWM
>"blows"

wra ur better than this pls

Idk shit about the LWM but the first two certainly do.

Entirely wrong, Rojava and the Zapatistas movement are amazing :^)