Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

[Yawkland]

Siblings, parents, grandparents, nieces/nephews

This isn't rocket science people

If you want to get the legal system involved, it needs an exact definition. If you do intend private justice, then "I know it when I see it" suffices, I suppose.

We have legal definitions. The SEC has its own definition of who is considered a family member of a corporate insider for the purposes of regulating against stock fraud. Their definition is siblings, parents, spouses, nieces/nephews, and in-laws. Notably excluded are cousins and grandparents.

[Elwher]

How about parent/child (above the age of consent, of course)?

While not illegal, the people who do this sort of shit usually have something incredibly wrong with them. It's not normal and likely indicative of other disorders. You should not be having sex with immediate family members. If you do, any resulting pregnancy should be terminated.

Which leads us back to the question of bodily autonomy. Does an adult member of society have the right to do something with his or her body that many or most of the society thinks is wrong, as long as it does not directly affect another member? One's answer to this question affects the legal status of incest, prostitution, drug use, suicide, just to name a few; I believe it is at the heart of libertarianism. To me, if I am not free to decide what happens to my body I can have no freedom at all.

[Yawkland]

While not illegal, the people who do this sort of shit usually have something incredibly wrong with them. It's not normal and likely indicative of other disorders. You should not be having sex with immediate family members. If you do, any resulting pregnancy should be terminated.

Which leads us back to the question of bodily autonomy. Does an adult member of society have the right to do something with his or her body that many or most of the society thinks is wrong, as long as it does not directly affect another member? One's answer to this question affects the legal status of incest, prostitution, drug use, suicide, just to name a few; I believe it is at the heart of libertarianism. To me, if I am not free to decide what happens to my body I can have no freedom at all.

The problem is that these behaviors are almost entirely indicative of other problems with the individuals who partake in them. I.e., well-adjusted, upstanding people do not do these things, and would not do them even if they were legal. We tend to watch them closely because the people doing these activities are usually a danger to themselves or others.

Take pornography for example. It is legal but the industry is still fraught with trafficking, rape, drug abuse, and anti-social behavior.

[Rojava Free State]

Imo a brother and sister getting it on. Cousins aren't as genetically close and if they're second or third cousins they're barely even related, and step siblings are not related at all except by a marriage. If my parents divorced and my dad remarried a woman with a good looking daughter, and this girl was a freak, ima just say it right now that it's happening. Fuck what you've heard, it's totally a-ok

But an actual brother-sister weird sex thing is a big no from me. That's actual incest

How about parent/child (above the age of consent, of course)?

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

[Rojava Free State]

How about parent/child (above the age of consent, of course)?

While not illegal, the people who do this sort of shit usually have something incredibly wrong with them. It's not normal and likely indicative of other disorders. You should not be having sex with immediate family members. If you do, any resulting pregnancy should be terminated.

Incest is a huge cause of birth defects and disorders. This is why it's an unnatural behavior and should not be tolerated, although I don't know if I would wanna get the government involved

I prefer the method of point and go "EEEEEEEEEEEEW!"

[Yawkland]

While not illegal, the people who do this sort of shit usually have something incredibly wrong with them. It's not normal and likely indicative of other disorders. You should not be having sex with immediate family members. If you do, any resulting pregnancy should be terminated.

Incest is a huge cause of birth defects and disorders. This is why it's an unnatural behavior and should not be tolerated, although I don't know if I would wanna get the government involved

I prefer the method of point and go "EEEEEEEEEEEEW!"

This is why I am incredibly concerned of the normalization of incest done by pornography. That stuff is disgusting.

[Elwher]

Which leads us back to the question of bodily autonomy. Does an adult member of society have the right to do something with his or her body that many or most of the society thinks is wrong, as long as it does not directly affect another member? One's answer to this question affects the legal status of incest, prostitution, drug use, suicide, just to name a few; I believe it is at the heart of libertarianism. To me, if I am not free to decide what happens to my body I can have no freedom at all.

The problem is that these behaviors are almost entirely indicative of other problems with the individuals who partake in them. I.e., well-adjusted, upstanding people do not do these things, and would not do them even if they were legal. We tend to watch them closely because the people doing these activities are usually a danger to themselves or others.

Take pornography for example. It is legal but the industry is still fraught with trafficking, rape, drug abuse, and anti-social behavior.

With the (possible) exception of trafficking, those problems are endemic to the movie industry in general Weinstein and Polanski come to mind at once, any search will bring hp many more examples. Should movie making be made illegal? (And no, Disney's live action remakes of cartoons are not a reason for illegality, just nausea).

[Salus Maior]

To me, if I am not free to decide what happens to my body I can have no freedom at all.

This is such an eye roll. All you would be doing is focusing one specific thing you can't do and then, in the presence of all your given rights, pout like a kid and say you have no rights.

It's incredibly silly.

[Rojava Free State]

Incest is a huge cause of birth defects and disorders. This is why it's an unnatural behavior and should not be tolerated, although I don't know if I would wanna get the government involved

I prefer the method of point and go "EEEEEEEEEEEEW!"

This is why I am incredibly concerned of the normalization of incest done by pornography. That stuff is disgusting.

I don't worry too much about incest porn, considering anyone with a brain knows porn isn't very realistic. Porn would have you thinking you can basically rape a woman, and it's ok cause she would like it as long as your genitalia is of an inhuman length (that 99% of men don't have). It's based on maximizing people's fantasies to ridiculous lengths. I think the atomization of our society has contributed to this since its harder to have contact with the other gender when everyone is constantly moving and the only place you can meet people is electricity nightclub (where the speakers blow your eardrums, and it's $30 to enter, $6 to hang your coat and $15 for parking).

[Salus Maior]

This is why I am incredibly concerned of the normalization of incest done by pornography. That stuff is disgusting.

I don't worry too much about incest porn, considering anyone with a brain knows porn isn't very realistic.

The problem here being that teenagers and kids have access to porn, and it can be their first real exposure to sexuality.

[Rojava Free State]

I don't worry too much about incest porn, considering anyone with a brain knows porn isn't very realistic.

The problem here being that teenagers and kids have access to porn, and it can be their first real exposure to sexuality.

I mean it was my first exposure to sexuality and I still know it's unrealistic. Everything about porn is an exaggerated imitation of real life. The scenarios, the noises people make, the...bodily proportions, the annoying music

[Salus Maior]

The problem here being that teenagers and kids have access to porn, and it can be their first real exposure to sexuality.

I mean it was my first exposure to sexuality and I still know it's unrealistic. Everything about porn is an exaggerated imitation of real life. The scenarios, the noises people make, the...bodily proportions, the annoying music

Good for you. You turned out alright, but I think the existence of incels as a high profile group points out that not everyone does turn out that way.

[New Paine]

To me, if I am not free to decide what happens to my body I can have no freedom at all.

This is such an eye roll. All you would be doing is focusing one specific thing you can't do and then, in the presence of all your given rights, pout like a kid and say you have no rights.

It's incredibly silly.

The same thing can be said about taking away religious freedom.

[Salus Maior]

This is such an eye roll. All you would be doing is focusing one specific thing you can't do and then, in the presence of all your given rights, pout like a kid and say you have no rights.

It's incredibly silly.

The same thing can be said about taking away religious freedom.

People have literally faced torture and death for the sake of practicing their religion in the face of state persecution.

I think wanting to fuck a relative is not quite on the same level.

[Northern Davincia]

Incestuous couples ought to be flogged, to be fair.

And exactly how close a relationship defines incestuous?

Second cousins would be the boundary. Cross that line, and the flogging commences.

[Rojava Free State]

And exactly how close a relationship defines incestuous?

Second cousins would be the boundary. Cross that line, and the flogging commences.

So if you do it with your second cousin it's ok, or is that where you get the whip?

Cause I ain't gonna lie man, my second cousin is pretty hot. She's got red hair, green eyes and she's 5'7 so that's a plus in my book. To save face for those of you who think it's weird though, I'm not planning on doing anything with her nor is she my first pick in the big old book of hit it and quit it. I barely even see her

[Byzconia]

Yet you still love corporations just as much as they do. Funny how that works.

And you still love state control of production just as much as Stalinists do. Funny how that works.

Except I don't. I support a market economy. Nice try, though. 0/10 for effort.

[Byzconia]

Except that's not what I was arguing, though I can admittedly understand the confusion. My issue with the right-wing hijacking of the term is less "we had it first" and more "the term doesn't actually apply to them." Right-libertarians don't oppose oppression and injustice, just government-based oppression and injustice. Not good enough.

Libertarianism as an ideology is only concerned with the political sphere, not so much with the private sphere. In fact it's probably best not to mix the two...

And why is it "best"? Because businesses might have to actually treat their workers with dignity? Picking and choosing which oppression qualifies as "bad" means you don't actually think oppression is bad to begin with.

[Rojava Free State]

Libertarianism as an ideology is only concerned with the political sphere, not so much with the private sphere. In fact it's probably best not to mix the two...

And why is it "best"? Because businesses might have to actually treat their workers with dignity? Picking and choosing which oppression qualifies as "bad" means you don't actually think oppression is bad to begin with.

I too am against all forms of oppression, including the government but also including religion and big business as well, along with social norms that are ridiculous and trivial. I think everyone deserves to be able to live (unless they unironically base their kitchen recipes off buzzfeed, then no) and everyone has a right to be what they wanna be.

[Byzconia]

I mean it was my first exposure to sexuality and I still know it's unrealistic. Everything about porn is an exaggerated imitation of real life. The scenarios, the noises people make, the...bodily proportions, the annoying music

Good for you. You turned out alright, but I think the existence of incels as a high profile group points out that not everyone does turn out that way.

And plenty of other people are exposed to porn young and don't turn out incels. It's almost as if different people are...different.

If this is something you're actually worried about, you should be supporting comprehensive sex education, so that porn isn't their first exposure to ideas of sex.

[Byzconia]

And why is it "best"? Because businesses might have to actually treat their workers with dignity? Picking and choosing which oppression qualifies as "bad" means you don't actually think oppression is bad to begin with.

I too am against all forms of oppression, including the government but also including religion and big business as well, along with social norms that are ridiculous and trivial. I think everyone deserves to be able to live (unless they unironically base their kitchen recipes off buzzfeed, then no) and everyone has a right to be what they wanna be.

I agree with all of this, hence why the question wasn't directed at you.

[Rojava Free State]

I mean it was my first exposure to sexuality and I still know it's unrealistic. Everything about porn is an exaggerated imitation of real life. The scenarios, the noises people make, the...bodily proportions, the annoying music

Good for you. You turned out alright, but I think the existence of incels as a high profile group points out that not everyone does turn out that way.

Bro there is a lot more wrong with incels then porn. It's a mix of them just not being cool guys, being attracted to the manosphere and living in a more atomized society

There's been incels forever man. I mean shit Sir Isaac Newton died a virgin. I'm blessed to not be one, and I must be good looking because up until recently my social skills with women were shit, and I still would only give myself a B or B+ with them now. Cassanova I am not, and my zombie laugh sure as fuck gets me no romance

[The Liberated Territories]

Libertarianism as an ideology is only concerned with the political sphere, not so much with the private sphere. In fact it's probably best not to mix the two...

And why is it "best"? Because businesses might have to actually treat their workers with dignity? Picking and choosing which oppression qualifies as "bad" means you don't actually think oppression is bad to begin with.

Mixing the public and private sphere lead to greater corporate involvement in government, generally. Not a good thing.

[Yawkland]

The problem is that these behaviors are almost entirely indicative of other problems with the individuals who partake in them. I.e., well-adjusted, upstanding people do not do these things, and would not do them even if they were legal. We tend to watch them closely because the people doing these activities are usually a danger to themselves or others.

Take pornography for example. It is legal but the industry is still fraught with trafficking, rape, drug abuse, and anti-social behavior.

With the (possible) exception of trafficking, those problems are endemic to the movie industry in general Weinstein and Polanski come to mind at once, any search will bring hp many more examples. Should movie making be made illegal? (And no, Disney's live action remakes of cartoons are not a reason for illegality, just nausea).

The porn industry is filled with Weinstein's and Polanskis, only they are many times worse.

[Yawkland]

The problem is that these behaviors are almost entirely indicative of other problems with the individuals who partake in them. I.e., well-adjusted, upstanding people do not do these things, and would not do them even if they were legal. We tend to watch them closely because the people doing these activities are usually a danger to themselves or others.

Take pornography for example. It is legal but the industry is still fraught with trafficking, rape, drug abuse, and anti-social behavior.

With the (possible) exception of trafficking, those problems are endemic to the movie industry in general Weinstein and Polanski come to mind at once, any search will bring hp many more examples. Should movie making be made illegal? (And no, Disney's live action remakes of cartoons are not a reason for illegality, just nausea).

The porn industry is Weinstein on steroids. It at least deserves to be investigated.