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Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is the best libertarian ideology?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Classical liberalism
32
48%
Minarchism
6
9%
Anarcho-capitalism
3
5%
Bakunin's anarchism
5
8%
Anarcho-syndicalism
11
17%
Other/Anarcho-statism
9
14%
 
Total votes : 66

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Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Founded: Jun 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:40 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
I don’t believe that private property should be abolished. I would love to see left-libertarians(or the alt-right) try to take my land away from me. :p


*Homeless Uprising intensifies*


Heh, see, I’m an American, and the stereotype of Americans loving guns most definitely applies to me. ;)
Officially retired as of 8/10/2018. Don’t bother sending TG’s since I’m not coming back.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 27795
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:42 pm

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
*Homeless Uprising intensifies*


Heh, see, I’m an American, and the stereotype of Americans loving guns most definitely applies to me. ;)


I'm also American, with enough arms to seize your properties :^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Founded: Jun 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:45 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Heh, see, I’m an American, and the stereotype of Americans loving guns most definitely applies to me. ;)


I'm also American, with enough arms to seize your properties :^)


Ohhh, I would love to see anyone try. It would make my day.
Officially retired as of 8/10/2018. Don’t bother sending TG’s since I’m not coming back.

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:47 pm

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
I'm also American, with enough arms to seize your properties :^)


Ohhh, I would love to see anyone try. It would make my day.


You'd only see the decoy property-seizers :^)))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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New Visayan Islands
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Founded: Jan 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Visayan Islands » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:53 am

Haven't noticed the Foundation for Economic Education website as suggested by the OP.

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
*Homeless Uprising intensifies*


Heh, see, I’m an American, and the stereotype of Americans loving guns most definitely applies to me. ;)

Wait, so you're Nobunaga Oda?
Let "¡Viva la Libertad!" be a cry of Eternal Defiance to the Jackboot.
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Pilarcraft
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Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pilarcraft » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:01 am

Torrocca wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Ohhh, I would love to see anyone try. It would make my day.


You'd only see the decoy property-seizers :^)))
The Right to Arms is the one thing that unites the farthest left and the farthest right. The Authoritarian equally hate it, the Libertarians equally love it... for different reasons.
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Great Minarchistan
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Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Minarchistan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:00 am

Pilarcraft wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
You'd only see the decoy property-seizers :^)))
The Right to Arms is the one thing that unites the farthest left and the farthest right. The Authoritarian equally hate it, the Libertarians equally love it... for different reasons.

Mutually assured threat is the best way to prevent MAD ;')
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Taihei Tengoku
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Founded: Dec 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:03 am

"eliminating" landlords is just code for making a single leviathan landlord to which all are enserfed
REST IN POWER
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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9478
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:04 am

Pilarcraft wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
You'd only see the decoy property-seizers :^)))
The Right to Arms is the one thing that unites the farthest left and the farthest right. The Authoritarian equally hate it, the Libertarians equally love it... for different reasons.

Those different reasons being?...
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
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Great Minarchistan
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Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Minarchistan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:05 am

Taihei Tengoku wrote:"eliminating" landlords is just code for making a single leviathan landlord to which all are enserfed

Or creating a general disorder in the society and economy but they can't notice it apparently
Awarded for Best Capitalist in 2018 NSG Awards ;')
##############################
Fmr. libertarian, irredeemable bank shill and somewhere inbetween classical liberalism and neoliberalism // Political Compass: +8.75 Economic, -2.25 Social (May 2019)

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Pilarcraft
Senator
 
Posts: 3826
Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pilarcraft » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:05 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Pilarcraft wrote:The Right to Arms is the one thing that unites the farthest left and the farthest right. The Authoritarian equally hate it, the Libertarians equally love it... for different reasons.

Mutually assured threat is the best way to prevent MAD ;')
I have an entire Genre of Science-Fiction that says otherwise :p
The Confederal Alliance of Pilarcraft ✺ That world will cease to be
Led by The Triumvirate.
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B.P.D.: Dossier on parallel home-worlds released, will be updated regularly to include more encountered in the Convergence.

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Great Minarchistan
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Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Minarchistan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:07 am

Pilarcraft wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:Mutually assured threat is the best way to prevent MAD ;')
I have an entire Genre of Science-Fiction that says otherwise :p

"1984" :^)
Awarded for Best Capitalist in 2018 NSG Awards ;')
##############################
Fmr. libertarian, irredeemable bank shill and somewhere inbetween classical liberalism and neoliberalism // Political Compass: +8.75 Economic, -2.25 Social (May 2019)

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Pilarcraft
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Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pilarcraft » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:09 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Pilarcraft wrote:I have an entire Genre of Science-Fiction that says otherwise :p

"1984" :^)
That counts too, technically.
The Confederal Alliance of Pilarcraft ✺ That world will cease to be
Led by The Triumvirate.
OOC | Military | History |Language | Overview | Parties | Q&A | Factbooks
Proud Civic Persian Nationalist
B.P.D.: Dossier on parallel home-worlds released, will be updated regularly to include more encountered in the Convergence.

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Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13695
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:10 am

Torrocca wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Heh, see, I’m an American, and the stereotype of Americans loving guns most definitely applies to me. ;)


I'm also American, with enough arms to seize your properties :^)

But I like my properties. Especially my arms.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27795
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:44 am

Taihei Tengoku wrote:"eliminating" landlords is just code for making a single leviathan landlord to which all are enserfed


false, free homes for everyone :^)

Sovaal wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
I'm also American, with enough arms to seize your properties :^)

But I like my properties. Especially my arms.


*Seizes ur arms anyway*

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:"eliminating" landlords is just code for making a single leviathan landlord to which all are enserfed

Or creating a general disorder in the society and economy but they can't notice it apparently


>implying giving everyone a free home to live in is social disorder
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Aeedaavia
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Posts: 11
Founded: Jun 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aeedaavia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:59 am

And who will build those free homes?

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Torrocca
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Posts: 27795
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:19 am

Aeedaavia wrote:And who will build those free homes?


Who needs to build free homes when the unoccupied homes in America alone outnumber the homeless three to one? :^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Aeedaavia
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Posts: 11
Founded: Jun 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aeedaavia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:26 am

Torrocca wrote:
Aeedaavia wrote:And who will build those free homes?


Who needs to build free homes when the unoccupied homes in America alone outnumber the homeless three to one? :^)

But those unoccupies homes are mostly in places where no one wants them, like in Detroit or the Rust Belt, aren't they? Meanwhile there are giant housing shortages at the West Coast, with no one really tackling the homelessness problems, as local governments are unwilling to build new houses and restrictive zoning laws and other ordinances prevent private investors from building new housing themselves.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 27795
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:28 am

Aeedaavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Who needs to build free homes when the unoccupied homes in America alone outnumber the homeless three to one? :^)

But those unoccupies homes are mostly in places where no one wants them, like in Detroit or the Rust Belt, aren't they? Meanwhile there are giant housing shortages at the West Coast, with no one really tackling the homelessness problems, as local governments are unwilling to build new houses and restrictive zoning laws and other ordinances prevent private investors from building new housing themselves.


A fuckton of the unoccupied structures across America is privately-owned property that's going unused. They'd be better used as homes, even the less-than-satisfactory ones.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Aeedaavia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Jun 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aeedaavia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:48 am

Torrocca wrote:
Aeedaavia wrote:But those unoccupies homes are mostly in places where no one wants them, like in Detroit or the Rust Belt, aren't they? Meanwhile there are giant housing shortages at the West Coast, with no one really tackling the homelessness problems, as local governments are unwilling to build new houses and restrictive zoning laws and other ordinances prevent private investors from building new housing themselves.


A fuckton of the unoccupied structures across America is privately-owned property that's going unused. They'd be better used as homes, even the less-than-satisfactory ones.

You don't understand. I said these don't exist where housing is needed, where the homeless live. They exist mostly in places people have moved away from.

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27795
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:52 am

Aeedaavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
A fuckton of the unoccupied structures across America is privately-owned property that's going unused. They'd be better used as homes, even the less-than-satisfactory ones.

You don't understand. I said these don't exist where housing is needed, where the homeless live. They exist mostly in places people have moved away from.


Then enact government programs to assist the homeless in relocating (if they so wish) to these new, free homes.

And besides that, there's plenty of structures that could be converted into housing units that aren't being used in places where homelessness is more rampant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Aeedaavia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Jun 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Aeedaavia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:59 am

Torrocca wrote:
Aeedaavia wrote:You don't understand. I said these don't exist where housing is needed, where the homeless live. They exist mostly in places people have moved away from.


Then enact government programs to assist the homeless in relocating (if they so wish) to these new, free homes.

And besides that, there's plenty of structures that could be converted into housing units that aren't being used in places where homelessness is more rampant.

As I said, these empty homes are mostly in regions people moved away from, and for good reasons, as they have huge unemployment problems, lack infrastructure and/or important services nearby and often therefore aren't very desirable. You will not find many people willing to move to them.

In the Bay Area, where homelessness and housing shortage is among the worst, which structures could be converted? Why not just loosen the laws regarding zoning etc. so more housing could be built by the private sector? Your ideas would seem to increase the size of the government rather than reduce it, and for no good reason.

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Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37334
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:01 am

Torrocca wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
I don’t believe that private property should be abolished. I would love to see left-libertarians(or the alt-right) try to take my land away from me. :p


*Homeless Uprising intensifies*

Can't rise up if you have been deported from existence.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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Pilarcraft
Senator
 
Posts: 3826
Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pilarcraft » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:02 am

Aeedaavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Who needs to build free homes when the unoccupied homes in America alone outnumber the homeless three to one? :^)

But those unoccupies homes are mostly in places where no one wants them, like in Detroit or the Rust Belt, aren't they? Meanwhile there are giant housing shortages at the West Coast, with no one really tackling the homelessness problems, as local governments are unwilling to build new houses and restrictive zoning laws and other ordinances prevent private investors from building new housing themselves.

Ok. Say, imagine the US Legislates a law that gives every unoccupied home (that has been one for, say, 5 years) to the homeless. It just assigns them to a home and says "Here. You own this house now.", and gives them a stipend to buy a bus ticket there.
Are you saying those homeless people will be like 'nah. It's in Detroit. Fuck Detroit, I'd rather be homeless' and remain where they are???
The Confederal Alliance of Pilarcraft ✺ That world will cease to be
Led by The Triumvirate.
OOC | Military | History |Language | Overview | Parties | Q&A | Factbooks
Proud Civic Persian Nationalist
B.P.D.: Dossier on parallel home-worlds released, will be updated regularly to include more encountered in the Convergence.

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Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37334
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:03 am

Torrocca wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Heh, see, I’m an American, and the stereotype of Americans loving guns most definitely applies to me. ;)


I'm also American, with enough arms to seize your properties :^)

Hardly, and you have no power to seize anything here so go, and fly away.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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