Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

[Torrocca]

The Capitalism that ruthlessly exploited their lands, destroyed their ability to self-govern while simultaneously throwing them into borders dictated from a whole different continent with no regard for the histories or social relations of groups, and left them with scraps?

Probably mostly the state thing, and also some degree of ethnic violence.
Let's redraw Africa and try to get it right this time. Or at least, more right.

Nice to see you going back to the Capitalistic roots and supporting European Imperialism in Africa :^)

[Proctopeo]

That will last all of 17 hours as it rapidly devolves into a massive amount of religious and ethnic violence.
Think South Sudan, but on a continent-wide scale.
It'd sort itself out into reasonable borders similar to most of Europe (bar the Balkans) that encompass a culture or a group of related cultures who are willing to cooperate, but I'm not sure millions of Africans dying in the world's biggest civil war would be worth it.

The ratings, however, would be spectacular, if you treat it like reality TV. "And today, we're meeting with Contestant #455, the leader of the Hausa Nationalist Front, not to be confused with the Nationalist Hausa Front or the Front of Nationalism for the Hausa Peoples"

You just thought of the most ruthlessly capitalist way to treat a continent-wide ethnic war. Congratulations.

We could get better ratings than the royal wedding!

Probably mostly the state thing, and also some degree of ethnic violence.
Let's redraw Africa and try to get it right this time. Or at least, more right.

Nice to see you going back to the Capitalistic roots and supporting European Imperialism in Africa :^)

Hey, if we do it roughly along ethnic and religious lines, instead of internal and external colonial borders, Africa might be able to do something.

Also, let's take back Liberia, that's our own problem.

[West Leas Oros 2]

You just thought of the most ruthlessly capitalist way to treat a continent-wide ethnic war. Congratulations.

We could get better ratings than the royal wedding!

Nice to see you going back to the Capitalistic roots and supporting European Imperialism in Africa :^)

Hey, if we do it roughly along ethnic and religious lines, instead of internal and external colonial borders, Africa might be able to do something.

Also, let's take back Liberia, that's our own problem.

Pretty random, but 99% of people on social media who always comment “MAGA” and put American flags on their profile actually use the Liberian flag instead. Ironic.

[Proctopeo]

We could get better ratings than the royal wedding!


Hey, if we do it roughly along ethnic and religious lines, instead of internal and external colonial borders, Africa might be able to do something.

Also, let's take back Liberia, that's our own problem.

Pretty random, but 99% of people on social media who always comment “MAGA” and put American flags on their profile actually use the Liberian flag instead. Ironic.

All the more reason to retake Liberia.

[The Liberated Territories]

society is a neural network

Sounds like something Taihei would say

[Northern Davincia]

Pretty random, but 99% of people on social media who always comment “MAGA” and put American flags on their profile actually use the Liberian flag instead. Ironic.

All the more reason to retake Liberia.

Now we're talking.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Pretty random, but 99% of people on social media who always comment “MAGA” and put American flags on their profile actually use the Liberian flag instead. Ironic.

All the more reason to retake Liberia.

Isn't Liberia basically just a carbon copy of America, but staffed by black (formerly just Americo-Liberians, but now natives as well) people?

[Northern Davincia]

All the more reason to retake Liberia.

Isn't Liberia basically just a carbon copy of America, but staffed by black (formerly just Americo-Liberians, but now natives as well) people?

It was until civil war brought it to ruin. Liberia was extremely successful initially.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Isn't Liberia basically just a carbon copy of America, but staffed by black (formerly just Americo-Liberians, but now natives as well) people?

It was until civil war brought it to ruin. Liberia was extremely successful initially.

Well, in its earliest haydays, I wouldn't classify it as "extremely successful"...

Many people died during the settlement, and it was effectively an apartheid (except cultural instead of racial) state for the majority of its existence.

[Northern Davincia]

It was until civil war brought it to ruin. Liberia was extremely successful initially.

Well, in its earliest haydays, I wouldn't classify it as "extremely successful"...

Many people died during the settlement, and it was effectively an apartheid (except cultural instead of racial) state for the majority of its existence.

I suppose I should have defined "initially" as "from independence up to the civil war" and "successful" as "relative to the rest of Africa."

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Well, in its earliest haydays, I wouldn't classify it as "extremely successful"...

Many people died during the settlement, and it was effectively an apartheid (except cultural instead of racial) state for the majority of its existence.

I suppose I should have defined "initially" as "from independence up to the civil war" and "successful" as "relative to the rest of Africa."

In that case, I'd say they fared relatively well for what they were.

Also a friendly historical reminder that minority rule isn't just racial, it can be cultural as well.

[Aellex]

Well, in its earliest haydays, I wouldn't classify it as "extremely successful"...

Many people died during the settlement, and it was effectively an apartheid (except cultural instead of racial) state for the majority of its existence.

I suppose I should have defined "initially" as "from independence up to the civil war" and "successful" as "relative to the rest of Africa."

Relative to Belgian, Italian or to a lesser extent British one, sure but then there is a reason why none of them are there anymore while us good bois still have our puppets allies in the region to this day. :^)

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I suppose I should have defined "initially" as "from independence up to the civil war" and "successful" as "relative to the rest of Africa."

Relative to Belgian, Italian or to a lesser extent British one, sure but then there is a reason why none of them are there anymore while us good bois still have our puppets allies in the region to this day. :^)

Portuguese colonies were also of relative worth, but the Carnation Revolution put an end to that.

[Aellex]

Their lack of a functioning state?

The Capitalism that ruthlessly exploited their lands, destroyed their ability to self-govern while simultaneously throwing them into borders dictated from a whole different continent with no regard for the histories or social relations of groups, and left them with scraps?

Oh please, the same happened in the Americas and Asia yet those two continents are flourishing.
Africa was left with a boon of infrastructure, hospitals, a fully developed bureaucracy and administration, working and modernized armies not to mention governing and political bodies tailor made for them.

That they squandered all those gifts we left for them is their fault and their fault alone and so is the situation they are in right now.

[Phoenicaea]

..That they squandered all those gifts we left for them is their fault and their fault alone and so is the situation they are in right now.

@Aellex, a topic may be the 'overcrowding' thing. if you see at it, provinces with low or relatively low population are no matter.

this happens even when these countries are poorest or suffer of traffics, and things, nevertheless it is liveable. instead they are good and get educated.

francafrica, see strongholds of mali and ivory coast, has agreements and colonials can get and bring order there.

while overcrowded, as nigeria, get in the limbo. all say they don t belong to them, so france and england say 'not us'; and since it doesn t belong, all people hurry for grabbing.

so you have got the overcrowded, unliveable ex-colonial 'pillows' where megalopolis grow larger, all fights (fra,uk,ita,ned) for resources (the delta, mines) and none takes immigrants.

france founds its remnants and influent country, nowadays, on francafrica resources, still it is most fragile of influent states, still i don t think it is different; italy makes 'fair' bloody deals.

speeches about faults, and inferior peoples, are no different than talks about cultures you do while you eat at dinner, not serious. it is bad mewolf, to shout and hide the vices.

so you have got no-man's lands (supposed, obviously this is not true) where you put import wastes, productive complexes. uneducated people whose fleeing away gets diluted.

[Northern Davincia]

The Capitalism that ruthlessly exploited their lands, destroyed their ability to self-govern while simultaneously throwing them into borders dictated from a whole different continent with no regard for the histories or social relations of groups, and left them with scraps?

Oh please, the same happened in the Americas and Asia yet those two continents are flourishing.
Africa was left with a boon of infrastructure, hospitals, a fully developed bureaucracy and administration, working and modernized armies not to mention governing and political bodies tailor made for them.

That they squandered all those gifts we left for them is their fault and their fault alone and so is the situation they are in right now.

Education in the Americas was far better than what was available in Africa. Good infrastructure means nothing if you don't have administrators and skilled workers to use it.

[Torrocca]

The Capitalism that ruthlessly exploited their lands, destroyed their ability to self-govern while simultaneously throwing them into borders dictated from a whole different continent with no regard for the histories or social relations of groups, and left them with scraps?

Oh please, the same happened in the Americas and Asia yet those two continents are flourishing.
Africa was left with a boon of infrastructure, hospitals, a fully developed bureaucracy and administration, working and modernized armies not to mention governing and political bodies tailor made for them.

That they squandered all those gifts we left for them is their fault and their fault alone and so is the situation they are in right now.

Good infrastructure doesn't mean shit when there's no resources left to give that infrastructure a purpose. Hospitals don't mean shit if the people you've colonized haven't been afforded an education to utilize them effectively. A fully-developed bureaucracy and administration definitely doesn't mean shit when it was developed specifically to support the whims and wishes of the home country and to uphold Apartheid-type social orders. Working, modernized armies don't mean shit if they're only there to support said administrations. Governing and political bodies don't mean shit if they're, again, made to support the whims and wishes of the home country.

All-in-all, your colonialist dream did nothing good for the colonized.

In regards to the Americas, these continents have rather fledgling native populations in comparison to Africa, which by and large wasn't systematically genocided or ethnically cleansed by colonial efforts, although examples of exactly that do exist. The flourishing of the Americas came about at the expense of the lives of millions of non-Europeans.

In Asia, the continent was by and large overall much more developed than Africa (specifically Sub-Saharan Africa) by the time Europeans began to invade en-masse because, believe it or not, a huge fucking desert known as the Sahara is a real kick in the dick when it comes to being included in the land-based exchange of ideas and inventions through the trade networks of the various Silk Roads. It's almost like that's a huge fucking hinderance to becoming a developed landmass when you're pretty much practically isolated from two whole continents connected to your own by land.

[The Liberated Territories]

I found my old filteries thingy:\

https://i.imgur.com/p3scFPy.jpg (too big, just copy-paste)

This my friends, is what a radical looks like.

If you want to take the test, go here.

apparently, it changed massively since I last took it. It's a fun sim.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I found my old filteries thingy:\

https://i.imgur.com/p3scFPy.jpg (too big, just copy-paste)

This my friends, is what a radical looks like.

If you want to take the test, go here.

apparently, it changed massively since I last took it. It's a fun sim.

I loved that test. Here's the results I just got for it.

I've gotten moderate af recently.

[Aellex]

Oh please, the same happened in the Americas and Asia yet those two continents are flourishing.
Africa was left with a boon of infrastructure, hospitals, a fully developed bureaucracy and administration, working and modernized armies not to mention governing and political bodies tailor made for them.

That they squandered all those gifts we left for them is their fault and their fault alone and so is the situation they are in right now.

Good infrastructure doesn't mean shit when there's no resources left to give that infrastructure a purpose. Hospitals don't mean shit if the people you've colonized haven't been afforded an education to utilize them effectively. A fully-developed bureaucracy and administration definitely doesn't mean shit when it was developed specifically to support the whims and wishes of the home country and to uphold Apartheid-type social orders. Working, modernized armies don't mean shit if they're only there to support said administrations. Governing and political bodies don't mean shit if they're, again, made to support the whims and wishes of the home country.

>No ressource left
You can't possibly be serious fam.

Hospitals, government and bureaucracy don't mean shit if you slaughter or force to flee the people who were educated and trained in the schools and universities the colonial powers created when there were none before, indeed.
Why those people were trained or who by is irrelevant to their capability to run the country which was very much of a fact.
We're getting back at my point that they squandered the capital that was granted to them.

All-in-all, your colonialist dream did nothing good for the colonized.

That's a brazen and utterly false lie. The amount of good Occidental colonisation did to Africa and Asia to a lesser extent is equivalent to the one Roman one did to European, that's to say humongous.

In regards to the Americas, these continents have rather fledgling native populations in comparison to Africa, which by and large wasn't systematically genocided or ethnically cleansed by colonial efforts, although examples of exactly that do exist. The flourishing of the Americas came about at the expense of the lives of millions of non-Europeans.

TIL I learn getting a cold and inadvertently passing it to people who're living in another country is genocide.

In Asia, the continent was by and large overall much more developed than Africa (specifically Sub-Saharan Africa) by the time Europeans began to invade en-masse because, believe it or not, a huge fucking desert known as the Sahara is a real kick in the dick when it comes to being included in the land-based exchange of ideas and inventions through the trade networks of the various Silk Roads. It's almost like that's a huge fucking hinderance to becoming a developed landmass when you're pretty much practically isolated from two whole continents connected to your own by land.

And yet a fucking ocean separated the Americas from Eurasia and that didn't stop them from developing even before the Conquistadors arrived.
Again, it's just bad excuses. There were trade routes inland along the Nile and plenty of caravans passing through the Sahara who had yet to expand as much as it has now. There were plenty of naval ones too, linking the coasts together. Africa was anything but isolated, it just remained undeveloped through its own fault.

[Razarija]

In Asia, the continent was by and large overall much more developed than Africa (specifically Sub-Saharan Africa) by the time Europeans began to invade en-masse because, believe it or not, a huge fucking desert known as the Sahara is a real kick in the dick when it comes to being included in the land-based exchange of ideas and inventions through the trade networks of the various Silk Roads. It's almost like that's a huge fucking hinderance to becoming a developed landmass when you're pretty much practically isolated from two whole continents connected to your own by land.

West Africa (which often seems to be ignored in such debates) was quite well influenced by ideas passing through the trans-Saharan trade route and a stretch of low population density land from Central Asia to the Himalayas didn't quite stop either China or India from prosperity or interacting with each other. There is an element of geographic determinism but simple barriers aren't quite everything, land ones being particularly not completely impervious.

[Frievolk]

I found my old filteries thingy:\

https://i.imgur.com/p3scFPy.jpg (too big, just copy-paste)

This my friends, is what a radical looks like.

If you want to take the test, go here.

apparently, it changed massively since I last took it. It's a fun sim.

I loved that test. Here's the results I just got for it.

I've gotten moderate af recently.

Mine is... almost not at all like what I previously thought.
https://i.imgur.com/I4UZomp.png

[Great Minarchistan]

Reminder that the price of emergency services has grown much slower than the rest of healthcare services

Who could have thought that aggressive profiteers piling up on the back of the gravely diseased were actually a drag on healthcare inflation

[Northern Davincia]

Thomas Sowell did nothing wrong.

[Petrolheadia]

To be fair, we've already known Torrocca has the "didn't replace oil in my Prius 'cause it has no engine" grasp on automotive issues when she suggested an anarchist commune can engineer high-end sports cars.

I guess Capitalists exist on an entirely different mortal plane of reality entirely if you think Anarchists can't have the ability to manufacture luxury items, because apparently doing things like getting blueprints from the companies you seize and democratize,

If you think that's all that goes into modern car manufacturing, you're full of shit.

With the modern level of sophistication, automotive design is a multi-billion-dollar international affair, with many components not built in-house. Hell, only 2 carmakers (Tata Group and Hyundai/Kia) have control over their steel deliveries!