Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

[Torrocca]

Funnily enough, though, the US has both higher murder rates and suicide rates than these "freedom hating" countries, like the UK.

Makes you think, don't it?

What was that word? Ah, trade-offs.

I'm sorry, but I'm laughing.

It's honestly hilarious how America's simultaneously safer (according to arguments by 2A'ers) yet has the trade-off of more homicides and suicides with guns around. Lel

It's almost like the real issue, which I've been alluding to, is the fact that we have such a fucking depraved society from a lack of accessible mental health care, rampant poverty, and multiple other issues that people end up turning to violent crime. Guns or not doesn't matter in that equation. But, please, keep rambling about how this dirty commie here, "wants to take [our] guns!!1!" without actually engaging in what I'm saying.

Also, a lot of that is gang-related. The kind of people I don't have a problem with shooting each other.

See? When my whole point's that people turn to gangs or murder or suicide to escape mental health issues, poverty, etc. all you can do is go and say, "yeah well most of it comes from these people doing that exact thing of using crime to escape shitty situations, so I don't give a fuck." It's literally a, "fuck you, got mine," scenario personified in text lmao.

I like how, despite me making it clear I'm not talking about gun control, you continue to rant about gun control.

Really shows how you don't actually have an argument here. :3

Alright, but when your "Fellow Leftists" take away your basic necessity to your shit-volution don't come crying to me.

So what was that complaint of yours about me making strawmen again?

[Petrolheadia]

The problem here is that you think having a gun culture is what has given result to the aforementioned scores of dead kids due to gun violence.

^

My point was never once about guns or gun culture lol, it's about the fact that America has such a depraved, backward society that a fuckton of people die violently for absolutely no reason. Leave it to people too hooked on the Drug of Freedom^TM* to miss that entire point and scream about "muh gunz n libertiez!!1!"

*Several restrictions apply

Well, that's now on r/DeathToAmeriKKKa.

What was that word? Ah, trade-offs.

I'm sorry, but I'm laughing.

It's honestly hilarious how America's simultaneously safer (according to arguments by 2A'ers) yet has the trade-off of more homicides and suicides with guns around. Lel

It's almost like the real issue, which I've been alluding to, is the fact that we have such a fucking depraved society from a lack of accessible mental health care, rampant poverty, and multiple other issues that people end up turning to violent crime. Guns or not doesn't matter in that equation. But, please, keep rambling about how this dirty commie here, "wants to take [our] guns!!1!" without actually engaging in what I'm saying.

Depraved like people being able to defend themselves from crime?

Poor like one of the highest incomes in the world?

Also, a lot of that is gang-related. The kind of people I don't have a problem with shooting each other.

See? When my whole point's that people turn to gangs or murder or suicide to escape mental health issues, poverty, etc. all you can do is go and say, "yeah well most of it comes from these people doing that exact thing of using crime to escape shitty situations, so I don't give a fuck." It's literally a, "fuck you, got mine," scenario personified in text lmao.

When you enter a gang, you should realize that you may exit it with lead inside.

[Torrocca]

^

My point was never once about guns or gun culture lol, it's about the fact that America has such a depraved, backward society that a fuckton of people die violently for absolutely no reason. Leave it to people too hooked on the Drug of Freedom^TM* to miss that entire point and scream about "muh gunz n libertiez!!1!"

*Several restrictions apply

Well, that's now on r/DeathToAmeriKKKa.

Kek

I'm sorry, but I'm laughing.

It's honestly hilarious how America's simultaneously safer (according to arguments by 2A'ers) yet has the trade-off of more homicides and suicides with guns around. Lel

It's almost like the real issue, which I've been alluding to, is the fact that we have such a fucking depraved society from a lack of accessible mental health care, rampant poverty, and multiple other issues that people end up turning to violent crime. Guns or not doesn't matter in that equation. But, please, keep rambling about how this dirty commie here, "wants to take [our] guns!!1!" without actually engaging in what I'm saying.

Depraved like people being able to defend themselves from crime?

>TFW you have the ability to defend yourself from crime so hard that your country has a higher homicide rate than your English friends across the pond
>TFW the person arguing this point completely missed the point yet again to make some shitty gun rights argument instead

Poor like one of the highest incomes in the world?

TIL'd living on the streets without a home, living in a trailer park, living in a shitty motel, living in a ghetto = having the highest incomes in the world

See? When my whole point's that people turn to gangs or murder or suicide to escape mental health issues, poverty, etc. all you can do is go and say, "yeah well most of it comes from these people doing that exact thing of using crime to escape shitty situations, so I don't give a fuck." It's literally a, "fuck you, got mine," scenario personified in text lmao.

When you enter a gang, you should realize that you may exit it with lead inside.

Holy shit not only is this something that completely ignores any and all psychological, environmental, or other conditions for why someone would actually join a gang, it's so moralistically vile in the depraved lack of care for another human life that I'd be laughing if it weren't so sad.

[Petrolheadia]

Depraved like people being able to defend themselves from crime?

>TFW you have the ability to defend yourself from crime so hard that your country has a higher homicide rate than your English friends across the pond
>TFW the person arguing this point completely missed the point yet again to make some shitty gun rights argument instead

Once again, lots of gang violence, not as much crime.

Also, I'm talking about at the very least 116k defensive gun uses a year.

Poor like one of the highest incomes in the world?

TIL'd living on the streets without a home, living in a trailer park, living in a shitty motel, living in a ghetto = having the highest incomes in the world

Better than starving in a straw hut.

When you enter a gang, you should realize that you may exit it with lead inside.

Holy shit not only is this something that completely ignores any and all psychological, environmental, or other conditions for why someone would actually join a gang, it's so moralistically vile in the depraved lack of care for another human life that I'd be laughing if it weren't so sad.

It's sad that people do it, but it is something that happens and influences the homicide rate on their own choice.

[Torrocca]

>TFW you have the ability to defend yourself from crime so hard that your country has a higher homicide rate than your English friends across the pond
>TFW the person arguing this point completely missed the point yet again to make some shitty gun rights argument instead

Once again, lots of gang and domestic violence, not as much crime.

And once again, you completely miss the fucking point.

TIL'd living on the streets without a home, living in a trailer park, living in a shitty motel, living in a ghetto = having the highest incomes in the world

Better than starving in a straw hut.

TIL'd starving in a metal or concrete box with a door > starving in a straw hut

Holy shit not only is this something that completely ignores any and all psychological, environmental, or other conditions for why someone would actually join a gang, it's so moralistically vile in the depraved lack of care for another human life that I'd be laughing if it weren't so sad.

It's sad that people do it, but it is something that happens and influences the homicide rate on their own choice.

And all you can apparently say in regards to it - or other issues that lead to violent acts happening like homicides and suicides - is literally nothing or even an outright, "yeah well they're in gangs so fuck them."

[Petrolheadia]

Once again, lots of gang and domestic violence, not as much crime.

And once again, you completely miss the fucking point.

Point of ignoring defensive uses?

Better than starving in a straw hut.

TIL'd starving in a metal or concrete box with a door > starving in a straw hut

And this is just the minimum, when you ignore food stamps.

It's sad that people do it, but it is something that happens and influences the homicide rate on their own choice.

And all you can apparently say in regards to it - or other issues that lead to violent acts happening like homicides and suicides - is literally nothing or even an outright, "yeah well they're in gangs so fuck them."

So what should I do?

[Free Arabian Nation]

TIL'd starving in a metal or concrete box with a door > starving in a straw hut

Is 3 not bigger than 0?

[Torrocca]

And once again, you completely miss the fucking point.

Point of ignoring defensive uses?

No, the whole fucking point that my argument was literally never once about guns themselves.

TIL'd starving in a metal or concrete box with a door > starving in a straw hut

And this is just the minimum, when you ignore food stamps.

And it wouldn't be an issue at all if Capitalism was done away with.

And all you can apparently say in regards to it - or other issues that lead to violent acts happening like homicides and suicides - is literally nothing or even an outright, "yeah well they're in gangs so fuck them."

So what should I do?

Do literally fucking anything in your power to help people in need instead of wanking about the glories of Capitalism and America over the internet? Even managing to get one person away from shit like that is an improvement.

[Free Arabian Nation]

Do literally fucking anything in your power to help people in need instead of wanking about the glories of Capitalism Communism and America Various Shitholes over the internet? Even managing to get one person away from shit like that is an improvement.

[Petrolheadia]

And this is just the minimum, when you ignore food stamps.

And it wouldn't be an issue at all if Capitalism was done away with.

Well, poverty is relative, so if everyone is poor, no one is... I get it now!

So what should I do?

Do literally fucking anything in your power to help people in need instead of wanking about the glories of Capitalism and America over the internet? Even managing to get one person away from shit like that is an improvement.

That's what I would do in a gang involvement situation.

[Torrocca]

Do literally fucking anything in your power to help people in need instead of wanking about the glories of Capitalism Communism and America Various Shitholes over the internet? Even managing to get one person away from shit like that is an improvement.

Shockingly enough, contrary to your constant bales of straw, I actually do things that help people which remain wholly in line with my Anarchist beliefs. I don't talk about them over the internet because I have no reason to start a self-gratuitous circlejerk over how much I do to help others.

[Torrocca]

And it wouldn't be an issue at all if Capitalism was done away with.

Well, poverty is relative, so if everyone is poor, no one is... I get it now!

Eyy, there's that pro-Capitalist strawman that completely misses any actual intellectual point about Anarchism/Communism/Socialism.

Do literally fucking anything in your power to help people in need instead of wanking about the glories of Capitalism and America over the internet? Even managing to get one person away from shit like that is an improvement.

That's what I would do in a gang involvement situation.

You act like that's literally the only sort of situation people need help to escape from.

[Petrolheadia]

Shockingly enough, contrary to your constant bales of straw, I actually do things that help people which remain wholly in line with my Anarchist beliefs. I don't talk about them over the internet because I have no reason to start a self-gratuitous circlejerk over how much I do to help others.

Humility bragging rights, huh?

[Torrocca]

Shockingly enough, contrary to your constant bales of straw, I actually do things that help people which remain wholly in line with my Anarchist beliefs. I don't talk about them over the internet because I have no reason to start a self-gratuitous circlejerk over how much I do to help others.

Humility bragging rights, huh?

Nah.

[Petrolheadia]

Well, poverty is relative, so if everyone is poor, no one is... I get it now!

Eyy, there's that pro-Capitalist strawman that completely misses any actual intellectual point about Anarchism/Communism/Socialism.

As if your argument was well-constructed.

That's what I would do in a gang involvement situation.

You act like that's literally the only sort of situation people need help to escape from.

No, but I would likely help if somebody I know needed it.

[Torrocca]

Eyy, there's that pro-Capitalist strawman that completely misses any actual intellectual point about Anarchism/Communism/Socialism.

As if your argument was well-constructed.

It was; not that that's relevant to the fact you've made it more than abundantly clear you have no idea whatsoever you're talking about whenever you make an """argument""" against leftist ideologies.

You act like that's literally the only sort of situation people need help to escape from.

No, but I would likely help if somebody I know needed it.

So when are you gonna give a home to the homeless?

[Petrolheadia]

As if your argument was well-constructed.

It was; not that that's relevant to the fact you've made it more than abundantly clear you have no idea whatsoever you're talking about whenever you make an """argument""" against leftist ideologies.

Did you really think you are the only one shittalking?

No, but I would likely help if somebody I know needed it.

So when are you gonna give a home to the homeless?

When it won't cost anything to build a home, which is... uhh, never?

Also, I could give someone a place to stay if they couldn't make rent, and there are shelters.

[Torrocca]

It was; not that that's relevant to the fact you've made it more than abundantly clear you have no idea whatsoever you're talking about whenever you make an """argument""" against leftist ideologies.

Did you really think you are the only one shittalking?

Nah.

At least my shittalking is actually grounded in reality instead of Red Scare propaganda, though. :3

Also, >TFW you're so upset by the idea that America isn't the most perfect place in the world that you take someone's argument out of context (namely, in the context of a piss-poor state of mental health care, impoverishment, etc. heavily contributing to factors of homicide and suicide in America) to try and make a meme post on Reddit

So when are you gonna give a home to the homeless?

When it won't cost anything to build a home, which is... uhh, never?

It doesn't cost anything to build a home under Anarchism, because money is a worthless concept under Anarchism. :3

Also, I could give someone a place to stay if they couldn't make rent, and there are shelters.

So then do that. Get out there and help. Quit the fucking circlejerk about how good Capitalism is because you fucking know it's not when people are forced into such shitty situations like homelessness.

[Free Arabian Nation]

It doesn't cost anything to build a home under Anarchism, because money is a worthless concept under Anarchism. :3

Because, as we all know, "True Anarchism" will magically and spontaneously happen within our lifetimes. And it will also be a perfect system where everyone is happy and healthy because we'll magically have enough shit for everyone to be happy.

Hmm, now what does that sound like (besides bullshit)?

[Torrocca]

It doesn't cost anything to build a home under Anarchism, because money is a worthless concept under Anarchism. :3

Because, as we all know, Anarchism will magically and spontaneously happen within our lifetimes. And it will also be a perfect system where everyone is happy and healthy because we'll magically have enough shit for everyone to be happy.

Hmm, now what does that sound like (besides bullshit)?

Sounds like a fuckton of straw, tbh.

[Petrolheadia]

Did you really think you are the only one shittalking?

Nah.

At least my shittalking is actually grounded in reality instead of Red Scare propaganda, though. :3

Also, >TFW you're so upset by the idea that America isn't the most perfect place in the world that you take someone's argument out of context (namely, in the context of a piss-poor state of mental health care, impoverishment, etc. heavily contributing to factors of homicide and suicide in America) to try and make a meme post on Reddit

Make some arguments one by one, and I'll try and shoot them down.

When it won't cost anything to build a home, which is... uhh, never?

It doesn't cost anything to build a home under Anarchism, because money is a worthless concept under Anarchism. :3

Cost isn't just monetary - material cost, lost time, lost opportunities...

Also, I could give someone a place to stay if they couldn't make rent, and there are shelters.

So then do that. Get out there and help. Quit the fucking circlejerk about how good Capitalism is because you fucking know it's not when people are forced into such shitty situations like homelessness.

As I once said, homelessness is the statistical low. Capitalism brings prosperity to far more.

And I'm talking about friends helping friends, not being an one-man homeless shelter.

[Free Arabian Nation]

Because, as we all know, Anarchism will magically and spontaneously happen within our lifetimes. And it will also be a perfect system where everyone is happy and healthy because we'll magically have enough shit for everyone to be happy.

Hmm, now what does that sound like (besides bullshit)?

Sounds like a fuckton of straw, tbh.

Except that's literally what Anarchism is

I've read your shitty red book

[Torrocca]

Sounds like a fuckton of straw, tbh.

Except that's literally what Anarchism is

Fucking lol, no it's not.

I've read your shitty red book

Sure.

Nah.

At least my shittalking is actually grounded in reality instead of Red Scare propaganda, though. :3

Also, >TFW you're so upset by the idea that America isn't the most perfect place in the world that you take someone's argument out of context (namely, in the context of a piss-poor state of mental health care, impoverishment, etc. heavily contributing to factors of homicide and suicide in America) to try and make a meme post on Reddit

Make some arguments one by one, and I'll try and shoot them down.

I've made plenty. You've pretty much just dismissed them with a lack of care to the obvious (impoverishment, lack of accessible healthcare, etc.) to a blatant disregard to those turned to violence and other criminal behavior because of such issues mentioned already.

It doesn't cost anything to build a home under Anarchism, because money is a worthless concept under Anarchism. :3

Cost isn't just monetary - material cost, lost time, lost opportunities...

A community organized under the belief of Mutual Aid literally has no issues with that. See: the Zapatista communities. Or, if that's too cliche/too backwards for your tastes (as it apparently is for some people here), there's plenty of other Anarchist examples of the principle of Mutual Aid in action.

So then do that. Get out there and help. Quit the fucking circlejerk about how good Capitalism is because you fucking know it's not when people are forced into such shitty situations like homelessness.

As I once said, homelessness is the statistical low. Capitalism brings prosperity to far more.

And I'm talking about friends helping friends, not being an one-man homeless shelter.

Capitalism fucks over plenty of people. Don't forget, half the world's in poverty (and before someone brings up one of those "extreme poverty" charts, that's extreme poverty, not regular poverty).

[Petrolheadia]

Make some arguments one by one, and I'll try and shoot them down.

I've made plenty. You've pretty much just dismissed them with a lack of care to the obvious (impoverishment, lack of accessible healthcare, etc.) to a blatant disregard to those turned to violence and other criminal behavior because of such issues mentioned already.

As I said, there are some things that need to be traded off for capitalist advancement.

Cost isn't just monetary - material cost, lost time, lost opportunities...

A community organized under the belief of Mutual Aid literally has no issues with that. See: the Zapatista communities. Or, if that's too cliche/too backwards for your tastes (as it apparently is for some people here), there's plenty of other Anarchist examples of the principle of Mutual Aid in action.

There is an issue, even if you don't mention it. No price estimate does not make a lunch free.

As I once said, homelessness is the statistical low. Capitalism brings prosperity to far more.

And I'm talking about friends helping friends, not being an one-man homeless shelter.

Capitalism fucks over plenty of people. Don't forget, half the world's in poverty (and before someone brings up one of those "extreme poverty" charts, that's extreme poverty, not regular poverty).

So bring a chart on "regular poverty" throughout history.

[Torrocca]

I've made plenty. You've pretty much just dismissed them with a lack of care to the obvious (impoverishment, lack of accessible healthcare, etc.) to a blatant disregard to those turned to violence and other criminal behavior because of such issues mentioned already.

As I said, there are some things that need to be traded off for capitalist advancement.

>TFW trading-off human suffering for the advancement of the rich is a good thing

C'mon, now.

A community organized under the belief of Mutual Aid literally has no issues with that. See: the Zapatista communities. Or, if that's too cliche/too backwards for your tastes (as it apparently is for some people here), there's plenty of other Anarchist examples of the principle of Mutual Aid in action.

There is an issue, even if you don't mention it. No price estimate does not make a lunch free.

Again, Petro. Mutual Aid. I'd seriously recommend you read Kropotkin's Mutual Aid on exactly this. Like, seriously, even if you take nothing else I say seriously or literally anything, just give it an honest read-through. It'll probably be better for you than me in regards to understanding Anarchism since I'm such a meme tbh.

Capitalism fucks over plenty of people. Don't forget, half the world's in poverty (and before someone brings up one of those "extreme poverty" charts, that's extreme poverty, not regular poverty).

So bring a chart on "regular poverty" throughout history.

Baddabing baddaboom, a condensed grouping of all the information.