Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

[Mladorossiya]

They have a tendency to turn to people like Pinochet if actual Libertarianism looks like it's starting to work. (NOT ALL OF THE RIGHT-LIBERTARIANS, OBVIOUSLY, mostly AnCaps and the like)

They remind me of Zizek tbh, criticize all anarchist societies as imperfect and 'statist' but provide no alternatives or support ridiculous principles over practice.

[Torrocca]

They have a tendency to turn to people like Pinochet if actual Libertarianism looks like it's starting to work. (NOT ALL OF THE RIGHT-LIBERTARIANS, OBVIOUSLY, mostly AnCaps and the like)

They remind me of Zizek tbh, criticize all anarchist societies as imperfect and 'statist' but provide no alternatives or support ridiculous principles over practice.

Yeah. Honestly, I have no problem with the Right-Libertarians that genuinely care about freedom, albeit with support for Capitalism, because they're not all like, "lololol PINOCHET AMIRITE??1? eggz dee xD" when you mention Anarchism, and are receptive to leftist ideas to a degree.

[Mladorossiya]

Yo, is Council Communism considered left-libertarian?

[Torrocca]

Yo, is Council Communism considered left-libertarian?

Yes; it supports democratic communism and is opposed to leftist authoritarianism, like Leninism.

[Victoriala II]

kevin carson is a cool guy

[Zurkerx]

I'll post this here and see what my Libertarian (and others) champions think:

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/27/60620843 ... ent-unions

[Elwher]

I get the impression that right-Libertarians and An-Caps succumb to 'No true anarchy' most of the time, in order to discredit left-libertarian societies.

I do not speak for anyone but myself, but I am arguing from the dictionary definition of anarchy:

Definition of anarchy
1 a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority the city's descent into anarchy
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order

By that standard, if there is a government there is no anarchy (and I consider that a good thing, by the way)

I merely wish to distinguish between left-libertarianism, which I disagree with but concede that it might work, from anarchy, which I contend cannot work.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'll post this here and see what my Libertarian (and others) champions think:

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/27/60620843 ... ent-unions

Very much the right call and this was a case I'd been waiting on since January or so. Good to see SCOTUS went in the right direction on this one.

[Torrocca]

I get the impression that right-Libertarians and An-Caps succumb to 'No true anarchy' most of the time, in order to discredit left-libertarian societies.

I do not speak for anyone but myself, but I am arguing from the dictionary definition of anarchy:

Definition of anarchy
1 a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority the city's descent into anarchy
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order

By that standard, if there is a government there is no anarchy (and I consider that a good thing, by the way)

I merely wish to distinguish between left-libertarianism, which I disagree with but concede that it might work, from anarchy, which I contend cannot work.

I'd recommend some Kropotkin, Bookchin, and Proudhon before going off those assertions of Anarchy. It's a much more complex political movement than just, "muh no gubbmints!!1!"

[Elwher]

I'll post this here and see what my Libertarian (and others) champions think:

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/27/60620843 ... ent-unions

We are getting a spate of correct decisions from the Court....I wold like to believe it a trend but my natural pessimism about Washington gets in the way.

[Great Minarchistan]

Mmhmm. Sure.

I'm some 50-60 miles far from a cinema and given your projection powers I believe it's possible yes

I'd wager it's going off the UN's definition of slavery.

Any source on UAE using that definition?

Anecdotes AND actual evidence showing that shit's fucked, like imagery of living areas and the like.

For who and why?

Sure you can. You don't need statistics to identify core problems behind homelessness.

Yeah, finding some five homeless guys out of the 50k+ in the US alone will surely give you the reasons behind homelessness

I guess because other countries experience the same kinds of horrific human rights abuses, but don't experience the economic growth that Botswana does, that justifies human rights abuses in the name of economic growth in Botswana.

"O', is this a corn field? Because I see a lot of strawmen."
I did not justify human rights abuses, I mentioned that they are an exceptional case in Africa that managed to strive even due to its miserable conditions and how the world should learn with them.

Oh hey, a parallel to that UAE issue just above. Nice.

Yeah, both have in common the ability to prosper despite the extensive bad conditions in the country.

Sure, if they didn't die first. They were dying at such a horrendously quick rate that the Atlantic Slave Trade didn't stop officially until 1866 because of Brazil.

Or maybe the country was importing a lot of slaves to compensate the raging growth of agriculture in the first half of the 19th century, y'know.

Also, believe it or not, US slaves could buy their freedom too. Slavery in the USA was degrees better than in Brazil. But that economic growth, amirite?

"if you mention muh economic growth and muh slavery simultaneously in an argument you are automatically saying that slavery is good"
Unsure if that's borderline flamebaiting.

It apparently doesn't, seeing as the UAE is somehow factored at #14 globally for high HDI.

The amount of people enslaved is too small to impact their HDI significantly. Assuming that 99% live with an average HDI of 860 and 1% (slaves) live with an average HDI of 50, the average is still 852.

First one. Second one. Third one.

t. photos used as sources intensify the actual gravity of it, plus US slaves were no better. Would you mind bringing pictures of American slaves working for white supremacist farmers too?
t. torture and domestic trade of slaves too existed in the US, and the amount of slaves was extensive on the South. Many states and counties had 40%+ of their population composed by slaves.

>What were absurd human rights abuses to the point of murder

C'mon, you're not even trying here.

>As if they didn't exist before the Gilded Age anyways
C'mon, you're trying to deform history?

How's about the era that came immediately after the Gilded Age, following things like Roosevelt's Anti-Trust Acts? That's a pretty good sauce for showing that shit vastly improved for workers.

Not only regulations were infinitely less extensive back then -- the Federal Register didn't exist until 1936 for instance, and when it was created it had 2500 pages or something. Now there are 80000 pages and the trend doesn't seem to improve -- as well as anti-trust acts do not... qualify as red tape.

Nope, just regular Capitalism.

Yes, because free market capitalism surely allow for extensive welfare such as the one enacted under LBJ's Great Society...

Sure.

Interesting.

Y'know, you should stop taking out the context in the posts you're replying to (AKA your previous posts which are being replied to).

No thanks, it makes the text box more confusing and hard to identify

[Northern Davincia]

I'll post this here and see what my Libertarian (and others) champions think:

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/27/60620843 ... ent-unions

The first of many good things against unions, I hope.

[Great Minarchistan]

new poll, exercise your democratic rights

[Washington Resistance Army]

Minarchistan is an authoritarian confirmed :^]

[Northern Davincia]

new poll, exercise your democratic rights

:^)

Minarchistan is an authoritarian confirmed :^]

We knew this from the beginning.

[Great Minarchistan]

Minarchistan is an authoritarian confirmed :^]

I've been growing more and more authoritarian recently, guess that's the testosterone kicking in :^)
(while pushing me farther into the right, may be the nov. 25th blessing instead)

[Washington Resistance Army]

Minarchistan is an authoritarian confirmed :^]

I've been growing more and more authoritarian recently, guess that's the testosterone kicking in :^)
(while pushing me farther into the right, may be the nov. 25th blessing instead)

Alas we've all been going that way it seems.

[Great Minarchistan]

I've been growing more and more authoritarian recently, guess that's the testosterone kicking in :^)
(while pushing me farther into the right, may be the nov. 25th blessing instead)

Alas we've all been going that way it seems.

Too bad nobody of you were born in November 25th :^)

[Torrocca]

new poll, exercise your democratic rights

You can ban the :^), but you'll never ban the (^:

[Zurkerx]

I've been growing more and more authoritarian recently, guess that's the testosterone kicking in :^)
(while pushing me farther into the right, may be the nov. 25th blessing instead)

Alas we've all been going that way it seems.

Thank god I haven't.

[Northern Davincia]

Alas we've all been going that way it seems.

Thank god I haven't.

One of us! One of us!

[The Empire of Pretantia]

They have a tendency to turn to people like Pinochet if actual Libertarianism looks like it's starting to work. (NOT ALL OF THE RIGHT-LIBERTARIANS, OBVIOUSLY, mostly AnCaps and the like)

They remind me of Zizek tbh, criticize all anarchist societies as imperfect and 'statist' but provide no alternatives or support ridiculous principles over practice.

TBF just because somebody doesn't have a better alternative doesn't mean an idea isn't shit.

[Torrocca]

They remind me of Zizek tbh, criticize all anarchist societies as imperfect and 'statist' but provide no alternatives or support ridiculous principles over practice.

TBF just because somebody doesn't have a better alternative doesn't mean an idea isn't shit.

Doesn't mean an idea is shit either, friendo :^)

[The Empire of Pretantia]

TBF just because somebody doesn't have a better alternative doesn't mean an idea isn't shit.

Doesn't mean an idea is shit either, friendo :^)

Yeah, anarchism is shit based on its own merits.

[Torrocca]

Doesn't mean an idea is shit either, friendo :^)

Yeah, anarchism is shit based on its own merits.

wrong again friendo :^)