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Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

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What is the best libertarian ideology?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Classical liberalism
32
48%
Minarchism
6
9%
Anarcho-capitalism
3
5%
Bakunin's anarchism
5
8%
Anarcho-syndicalism
11
17%
Other/Anarcho-statism
9
14%
 
Total votes : 66

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Phoenicaea
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Founded: May 24, 2017
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Postby Phoenicaea » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:52 pm

most ruling philosophy leans toward more ‘Kyenes’ in words, probably not what Kyenes wished it to be (if he was teaching nowadays).

economic policies mostly follow such Keynes arrangement, even if a different meaning than original. as each doctrine has to be applied for its age.

such stay as high policies of ‘democratic’ academics (i can easely see american academy who leads is mostly self-made people of labour origin).

to contrast that, such policies get applied by people from grand estate and trust families, which then gave birth to an inept ‘chaste’.

their role is mainly to apply said policies, intended to disrupt their accumulated wealth, in a viced way so they get harmless.

practical ruling also manages to overthrow the intention and to make economic leverage a way to oppress common man, for their own inheritance.

this viced mix of more and more redistributive academy and more and more reactionary application is the cause for crisis upon christianity.

the american president shows this drift, redistributive yale and princetown idea got applied throught a shameful puppet so harmless for his wider circle.

in my regards, even ‘socialist professors’ idea not good, it scraps savings.
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:19 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Objectivism at least in the economic sphere is an establishment ideology. The Republican party promotes that book constantly and they try to live by it. In their doctrine of Fusionism they mix Rand type economics with strong social conservatism.


Eh no not really, the establishment philosophy is solidly keynesian. Its just the conservatives prefer war spending and the liberals welfare spending.

Our economic policies are solidly neoliberal. Not outsourcing our jobs to places like China or other third world countries is often frowned upon, and we deregulate and subsidize many fortune 500 companies. Our economy is run to protect economic elites and Republican politicians who do so get praised and continuously quote Ayn Rand as their inspiration. Democratic politicians also implement similar policies, though to a lesser extent, and cover up that fact when they try to campaign. Regardless, Rand tier economics has influenced the establishment greatly, so it is hardly outside the mainstream.

While Ayn Rand may not have called for subsidies, people influenced by her don't seem to mind as long as the rich are served, which is what her philosophy is supposed to do in the first place.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:10 am

Elwher wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Objectivism is essentially capitalist dialectics. It is at its core, very Russian.


Objectivism is fascist Libertarianism. "We will force you to be free!"

What?
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Fusionism isn't even real, nobody besides teenager polisci neophytes use that term.

Hey no need to hit so close to home
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Elwher
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Capitalizt

Postby Elwher » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:17 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Elwher wrote:
Objectivism is fascist Libertarianism. "We will force you to be free!"

What?


Depending on the Objectivist, charity, religion, and other forms of non-business transactions are either forbidden or actively discouraged. Any communal ownership, even on a voluntary basis, meets the same fate.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:23 am

Elwher wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:What?


Depending on the Objectivist, charity, religion, and other forms of non-business transactions are either forbidden or actively discouraged. Any communal ownership, even on a voluntary basis, meets the same fate.

Religion is most critiqued under Objectivist thinking but it is a stretch to say the other things are forbidden.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Darussalam
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Founded: May 15, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Darussalam » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:00 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Eh no not really, the establishment philosophy is solidly keynesian. Its just the conservatives prefer war spending and the liberals welfare spending.

Our economic policies are solidly neoliberal. Not outsourcing our jobs to places like China or other third world countries is often frowned upon, and we deregulate and subsidize many fortune 500 companies. Our economy is run to protect economic elites and Republican politicians who do so get praised and continuously quote Ayn Rand as their inspiration. Democratic politicians also implement similar policies, though to a lesser extent, and cover up that fact when they try to campaign. Regardless, Rand tier economics has influenced the establishment greatly, so it is hardly outside the mainstream.

While Ayn Rand may not have called for subsidies, people influenced by her don't seem to mind as long as the rich are served, which is what her philosophy is supposed to do in the first place.

A more complete version of the story is that the past decades had seen considerable expansion in international trade and finance, accompanied with regulatory and bureaucratic growth that accommodates state rationalization and capture of this expansion. These two things are then generalized as "neoliberalism", a nebulous term that is largely defined more by those in opposition of it.

At any case, I don't think there's any ideological capture involved - most people in charge of the current so-called neoliberal world order are the same people in charge of bureaucratic, centrally-planned modernist order before. The GOP is a clown stooge party and has never been actually in charge. The economic climate is center-right because the past order is unsustainable and the only way you'd maintain a bureaucratic redistributionist welfare state ruled by academic-cultural clique sustainably is through neoliberalism, through externalizing production, through enough amount of dynamism that produces capital growth to be harvested. There's a reason why Scandinavian countries are also among the top in economic freedoms, and Sweden's politics basically revolves around the clique of the zaibatsu Wallenbergs.
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Taihei Tengoku
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Postby Taihei Tengoku » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:19 pm

Neoliberals exist to make unprincipled exceptions to the total insanity leftism/progressivism requires of society, and then to get btfo by the insane religious radical leftists once things are fixed. Thatcher is one of the most hated PMs in British history, but without her that ungrateful island would have been literally unable to keep its lights on 24 hours a day.
Last edited by Taihei Tengoku on Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Phoenicaea
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Postby Phoenicaea » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:18 am

_Darussalam, _American Republic, good exposees. what i can’t see of what you say is why you stir all in the pot toghether.

what do you mean when you say welfare state precisely, and why you usually attribute a flaw to all definitions of it indifferently.

i may see when you refer to most people office comfortable conditions, then the need for ‘draining resources’ somewhere.

still why do you attribute this drain to public offices alone, you can life off the land outside also through enterprises, if social order consents it.

in regard of using cheap foreign labour, which people tells ‘outsourcing’, this upkeeps a wealthy living, more than a wealthy living through welfare.

in regard of ‘elite’, i suppose you mean professors, physicians, lawyers, engineers, ‘nobility’ doesn’t come from bureaucracy, there always was.

even case of scandinavia, that is some of most ‘welfare’ nations, which seems to prove the two spheres, economic and labour liberties, can live aside.

what i don’t understand is, for most works, people consumes more than they produce, private or public, so why you despise merely the public.
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:20 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN248026

Ayn Rand Institute accepts government loan.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:57 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN248026

Ayn Rand Institute accepts government loan.

I humbly ask you to redact this for the sake of my sanity.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:16 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN248026

Ayn Rand Institute accepts government loan.

I see they’re following the actual Ayn Rand.
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Elwher
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Postby Elwher » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:30 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN248026

Ayn Rand Institute accepts government loan.


Cash trumps ideology.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:15 pm

Elwher wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN248026

Ayn Rand Institute accepts government loan.


Cash trumps ideology.

Objectivism does not follow its own principles but seeks to only protect the power of the rich. It is an establishment ideology through and through.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

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The Liberated Territories
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Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:01 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Elwher wrote:
Cash trumps ideology.

Objectivism does not follow its own principles but seeks to only protect the power of the rich. It is an establishment ideology through and through.


get the hell out of here you liberal
Left Wing Market Anarchism

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:24 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Objectivism does not follow its own principles but seeks to only protect the power of the rich. It is an establishment ideology through and through.


get the hell out of here you liberal

Not a liberal lol.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:22 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Elwher wrote:
Cash trumps ideology.

Objectivism does not follow its own principles but seeks to only protect the power of the rich. It is an establishment ideology through and through.

If that were true, rich people would be Objectivists, and there would be Objectivists in seats of power.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:11 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Objectivism does not follow its own principles but seeks to only protect the power of the rich. It is an establishment ideology through and through.

If that were true, rich people would be Objectivists, and there would be Objectivists in seats of power.

Plenty of rich people such as Mark Cuban embrace objectivism. Plenty of mainstream politicians do too, but mix it with social conservatism.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:18 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:If that were true, rich people would be Objectivists, and there would be Objectivists in seats of power.

Plenty of rich people such as Mark Cuban embrace objectivism. Plenty of mainstream politicians do too, but mix it with social conservatism.

Some rich people do, certainly. I find it to be rather sparse in the world of wealthy politics. Politicians accept the premises already aligning with economic conservatism.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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The Liberated Territories
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Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:58 pm

Objectivism is bad public image, so most high end executives and business types aren't Objectivists. Rather, they'd want to appeal to the hip liberal communist-chic crowd.
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:56 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Objectivism is bad public image, so most high end executives and business types aren't Objectivists. Rather, they'd want to appeal to the hip liberal communist-chic crowd.

liberal communist-chic crowd....There must be a law called "the left can be infinitely divided."
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:01 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Objectivism is bad public image, so most high end executives and business types aren't Objectivists. Rather, they'd want to appeal to the hip liberal communist-chic crowd.

liberal communist-chic crowd....There must be a law called "the left can be infinitely divided."

Also known as "the left always eats its self".

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Farnhamia
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:03 pm

Adamede wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:liberal communist-chic crowd....There must be a law called "the left can be infinitely divided."

Also known as "the left always eats its self".

Or "A liberal won't take his own part in an argument."
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:07 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Adamede wrote:Also known as "the left always eats its self".

Or "A liberal won't take his own part in an argument."

Not nearly as catchy or mentally evocative.
Last edited by Adamede on Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:18 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Objectivism is bad public image, so most high end executives and business types aren't Objectivists. Rather, they'd want to appeal to the hip liberal communist-chic crowd.

Liberal.
Communist.

Methinks you do not know what these words mean.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

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Taihei Tengoku
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Founded: Dec 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:57 am

Left is the same

All left infighting is the lefter faction calling out the pragmatists for not clapping long enough for Stalin
REST IN POWER
Franberry - HMS Barham - North Point - Questers - Tyrandis - Rosbaningrad - Sharfghotten
UNJUSTLY DELETED
OUR DAY WILL COME

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