Libertarian Discussion Thread II - Don't Thread on Me

[Petrolheadia]

It's better when it is.

Not really, no.

For some things, it's better to work together as a team instead of a loose US-Soviet WW2 alliance.

Nobody said that teams can't compete against each other.

[Torrocca]

Not everything in the world needs to be a competition my guy.

It's better when it is.

Sounds like you'd be fine with someone shooting you and stealing your home, then, because that's competition and, as we all know, it's better when life's a competition.

>No competition
>Only competition makes things better

Lol, these fucking memes

For one, plenty of Socialist lines of thought would still have competition between worker-owned businesses, because, surprise-fucking-surprise, Socialism, at its core, is about the workers owning the means of production, which can fit under a multitude of different economic models.

Secondly, human civilization wouldn't exist if competition was the only thing that drove people toward improvement. We're a communal species, for fuck's sake, and that by nature necessitates cooperation, which is inarguably the more major driver behind the advancement of our civilizations than competition ever has been.

We do form communities, but those communities can compete against each other - businesses, for example.

Businesses ain't communities, famalam.

Also, there are employee-owned businesses in capitalism. You know, partnerships, companies...

Worker-owned businesses is understandably not Capitalism. That's the whole fucking reason Socialism exists as a concept.

[Petrolheadia]

It's better when it is.

Sounds like you'd be fine with someone shooting you and stealing your home, then, because that's competition and, as we all know, it's better when life's a competition.

We have outcompeted those by funding police forces.

We do form communities, but those communities can compete against each other - businesses, for example.

Businesses ain't communities, famalam.

Why not?

Also, there are employee-owned businesses in capitalism. You know, partnerships, companies...

Worker-owned businesses is understandably not Capitalism. That's the whole fucking reason Socialism exists as a concept.

People pooling their capital to compete in the market are not capitalist?

[Torrocca]

Sounds like you'd be fine with someone shooting you and stealing your home, then, because that's competition and, as we all know, it's better when life's a competition.

We have outcompeted those by funding police forces.

Except murderers and thieves both still exist en masse, and some of them even use the police to steal your home. :3

Businesses ain't communities, famalam.

Why not?

... Because they're not?

Worker-owned businesses is understandably not Capitalism. That's the whole fucking reason Socialism exists as a concept.

People pooling their capital to compete in the market are not capitalist?

You can have money and markets under Socialism, because - get this - Socialism isn't one line of thought.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Sounds like you'd be fine with someone shooting you and stealing your home, then, because that's competition and, as we all know, it's better when life's a competition.

We have outcompeted those by funding police forces.

What if I have better and more arms than the police?

[Petrolheadia]

We have outcompeted those by funding police forces.

What if I have better and more arms than the police?

Military police.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What if I have better and more arms than the police?

Military police.

What if I have equivalent arms to them?

[Free Arabian Nation]

Military police.

What if I have equivalent arms to them?

Stop, before you accidentally convert someone to Gun-Grabber-ism

[Torrocca]

Military police.

What if I have equivalent arms to them?

What if you have a private mercenary army? *Taps head in McAnCap*

[Free Arabian Nation]

What if I have equivalent arms to them?

What if you have a private mercenary army? *Taps head in McAnCap*

Goddamnit

[Proctopeo]

The Leftist distinctions between personal property (eg. homes, vehicles, money, and other personal belongings gained in a fair manner (AKA not through exploiting others for personal gain such as is done under Capitalism)) and private property (eg. businesses and land owned by the few at the expense of the many for personal gain).

I think Merriam-Webster is a less biased source of definitions.

the leftist "definitions" are such memes, I'm amazed anyone uses them seriously anymore tbqh

[Valrifell]

I think Merriam-Webster is a less biased source of definitions.

the leftist "definitions" are such memes, I'm amazed anyone uses them seriously anymore tbqh

The right: *entire ideologies with memes as hooks and branding*
Also the right: LmAO tHe LeFT iS SuCH A MeME *dab* *cringe* *dab*

[Darussalam]

Why?

Because, get this, it's possible to make things beneficial for both sides.

This is called market transactions.

[Proctopeo]

the leftist "definitions" are such memes, I'm amazed anyone uses them seriously anymore tbqh

The right: *entire ideologies with memes as hooks and branding*
Also the right: LmAO tHe LeFT iS SuCH A MeME *dab* *cringe* *dab*

nice strawman
but do you have anything to actually say?

[Darussalam]

Not quite. I am agreeing that the proper function of a government is to protect personal property from theft. And since all property is owned by one or more persons, all property is personal property. I do not view her statement as a criticism but as a lesson in the proper function of a government.

Business property is not personal property.

Yes it is, because corporate personhood exists, and all that corporate personhood entails is that individuals voluntarily agree to enter a contract that will constrain their choices in the future. If you think governments shouldn't protect those sort of contracts might as well you say we shouldn't have civilization.

Standard leftist criticism of capitalism as "it's the government that defends private property" doesn't make sense anyway. Does this mean means of production should be able to be freely robbed away from one worker commune to another?

[Mushet]

Military police.

What if I have equivalent arms to them?

[Idzequitch]

Hawaii may be looking at raising the legal smoking age to 100.

Muh freedomz!

[Free Arabian Nation]

Hawaii may be looking at raising the legal smoking age to 100.

Muh freedomz!

... It's just one guy (IIRC). America/Hawaii isn't a dictatorship Despite what crazy Tumblr left-wingers want to tell you/I've heard crazier

[Elwher]

Business property is not personal property.

Yes it is, because corporate personhood exists, and all that corporate personhood entails is that individuals voluntarily agree to enter a contract that will constrain their choices in the future. If you think governments shouldn't protect those sort of contracts might as well you say we shouldn't have civilization.

Standard leftist criticism of capitalism as "it's the government that defends private property" doesn't make sense anyway. Does this mean means of production should be able to be freely robbed away from one worker commune to another?

I agree completely, of course, but even without the concept of corporate personhood the property of a corporation is personal property, since it is owned in common by the shareholders who are persons. Personal property can be owned by one person or by persons in concert, as in a house owned by two (or more) spouses. Shareholder ownership is not a different thing, just a difference in scale.

[Alcantaras]

Geolibertarian here.

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

Geolibertarian here.

Congratulations, Georgism is pretty based.

Do you support Land Value Tax as a singular tax or additive/minor replacement to the current tax system?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Because you're not rich?

"Lol ur a jealous poor xD"

But do ya see how (wrongly) accusing people of hating the poor when you proudly hate the rich makes you seem like you're projecting?

I don't hate the rich. I hate their greed and wealth accumulation that's come at the expense of the whole of society.

Right. You don't hate the rich, you only, want them to go fuck themselves and want to throw them under a bus.

[Torrocca]

"Lol ur a jealous poor xD"



I don't hate the rich. I hate their greed and wealth accumulation that's come at the expense of the whole of society.

Right. You don't hate the rich, you only, want them to go fuck themselves and want to throw them under a bus.

I want them to rescind the injustices they've wrought on society.

[The Liberated Territories]

Not quite. I am agreeing that the proper function of a government is to protect personal property from theft. And since all property is owned by one or more persons, all property is personal property. I do not view her statement as a criticism but as a lesson in the proper function of a government.

Business property is not personal property.

Bad argument. One can easily turn a house into a homemade workshop. Instead of these useless distinctions, why not argue against the fact that most corporations are not seen as property of a person but a legal person in itself?

[The Liberated Territories]

Business property is not personal property.

Yes it is, because corporate personhood exists, and all that corporate personhood entails is that individuals voluntarily agree to enter a contract that will constrain their choices in the future. If you think governments shouldn't protect those sort of contracts might as well you say we shouldn't have civilization.

Standard leftist criticism of capitalism as "it's the government that defends private property" doesn't make sense anyway. Does this mean means of production should be able to be freely robbed away from one worker commune to another?

Corporate personhood is nonsense. Corporations aren't people, and shouldn't be treated as such. Even Ayn Rand believed this.