European Politics Thread

[Chan Island]

Meanwhile in random news... a cow has been sentenced to death in Bulgaria.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/06/05/bulg ... side-of-eu

Specifically for wandering into Serbia unnoticed and then trying to go back without it's documentation. In the act, it left the European Union. EU law states that if you want to import an animal it must have it's documentation.

[Tobleste]

Don't most polls show a big margin in favour of joining?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessi ... ic_opinion

That’s the thing, Serbia and Ísland have a lot in common currently on this. The politicians want to join EU, the public doesn’t. Bjarni Benediktsson was speaking the people’s minds when he rejected the EU.

But polls show most Serbs do want to join. I checked and seemingly Iceland is the reverse but Serbia isn't Iceland. I don't know how many people in Serbia TTU knows but I doubt it's 7 million so I'm more likely to trust polls than one guy from that country.

[Tobleste]

Boy, please stop lying about Poland, ok? The article you cities has a source in Onet. Onet is a polish language portal provided by Axel Springer (which is owned by husband of Merkel) and it produces fake news against the government every week. This notice which it cities is a fake which is meant to lower our position in negotiations with the US - if we show them we are willing to pay they will want more money which could be unacceptable to our government and in long term make our position against Germany (and Russia) worse.

On the other hand I don't believe the Commission will resign of using Article 7 but our position is better than few weeks ago because of Italian election. It seems to be a big shift in European politics.
I see the change as good but the European politics is getting worse every year. I name the political processes here a term "erdoganization". The diversity of available political visions is growing but the temperature of the debate is also getting hotter, even with violence in the streets. That's mainly because the liberal left don't want accept they would loose long time held power and engage all media, millionaires against the right. And there are reactionists like nazis and fascists which also don't help. Neo-nazis walking through the center of Berlin in the Hitler's birthday are something confusing.

[The Transhuman Union]

As a Serbian myself, I can tell you that most people don't support joining the EU. Doesn't stop the politicians though.



I highly doubt it. Croatian-Serbian relations aren't as bad as they were twenty years ago.

Don't most polls show a big margin in favour of joining?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessi ... ic_opinion

You can even see the support is declining?

[Tobleste]

Don't most polls show a big margin in favour of joining?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessi ... ic_opinion

You can even see the support is declining?

Not over the last year or two but that's a seperate issue.
Which is bigger: support for joining or support for staying out?

[The Transhuman Union]

You can even see the support is declining?

Not over the last year or two but that's a seperate issue.
Which is bigger: support for joining or support for staying out?

I don't know about all people in my country, but I can confidently tell you that to the older populace in Serbia, they'll hardly support this.

[Germanic Tropical Islands]

How is Italy gonna pay that 100 billion for the programs?
In the dutch news they said that italy is behind with reformd and burcreacy. How bad is it?

[Ctulhu]

Meanwhile in random news... a cow has been sentenced to death in Bulgaria.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/06/05/bulg ... side-of-eu

Specifically for wandering into Serbia unnoticed and then trying to go back without it's documentation. In the act, it left the European Union. EU law states that if you want to import an animal it must have it's documentation.

1. This article made my day.

2. It's actually quite stupid that they had to start a petition for this. It's not like anyone was trying to illegilay smuggle the cow back into Bulgaria.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Meanwhile in random news... a cow has been sentenced to death in Bulgaria.

http://www.euronews.com/2018/06/05/bulg ... side-of-eu

Specifically for wandering into Serbia unnoticed and then trying to go back without it's documentation. In the act, it left the European Union. EU law states that if you want to import an animal it must have it's documentation.

"You came to the wrong fucking country you damn cow!"

[Baltenstein]

Boy, please stop lying about Poland, ok? The article you cities has a source in Onet. Onet is a polish language portal provided by Axel Springer (which is owned by husband of Merkel)

and it produces fake news against the government every week.

Well done, good sir. Bloody well done.

[NS Rome Italy]

And legal immigration is legal immigration, and illegal immigration is illegal immigration and should not be tolerated, apply meet the requirements and wait your turn, like I did for many years, it is that easy and it really is that easy to understand.

viewtopic.php?p=34142409#p34142409

Hmm, such a tough decision, Paper work and red tape or saving human lives?

The moment you said "leftist fake news media" is the moment I just stopped reading.

The boat people entering Italy and Europe asking for asylum are illegal immigrant migrants.

lol, i'm having lol attack, anyone please have mercy and call 911

If a cop finds a robber stealing a gold brick does he need paperwork to shoot him with a taser or does he go for it?

If you are runing away from hell, keep runing.

" The moment you said "leftist fake news media" is the moment I just stopped reading."
Lol, i'm having a lol attack, , anyone please have mercy and call 911

[Serzh Sarkeesian]

As an American of Turko-Georgian descent (two countries which to varying degrees would like to enter the EU) I cannot understand most Eurosceptics. Why do people want their civilization to be weak, divided, and in decline?

[NS Rome Italy]

The boat people entering Italy and Europe asking for asylum are illegal immigrant migrants.

lol, i'm having lol attack, anyone please have mercy and call 911

They are not, per the 1951 Refugee Convention.

The heck with the 1951 Refugee Convention, this is 2018, every nation has a right and duty to determine who and how many legal immigrant migrants enter their nation per year, to determine how many legal immigrant migrants their nation's economy can absorb per year, and the requirements to do so, and do so, even Mexico deports illegal immigrant migrants , even Mexico deports illegal immigrant migrants, apply meet the requirements and wait your turn, like I did, for many years, legal immigration is legal immigration with all thier rights respected, illegal immigration is illegal immigration and should not be tolerated.

Who agrees with this statement? Who disagrees with this statement?

[Chan Island]

As an American of Turko-Georgian descent (two countries which to varying degrees would like to enter the EU) I cannot understand most Eurosceptics. Why do people want their civilization to be weak, divided, and in decline?

Because they think they are either this guy: https://pics.me.me/freedom-quickmeme-com-17563734.png

This guy: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JjtU6qR4wZs/maxresdefault.jpg

Or this guy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... lossus.png


I completely agree with your assessment. It sometimes looks like this is a game of Hearts of Iron 4 and somebody clicked the 'boost fascism' button.

[Greater Miami Shores]

As an American of Turko-Georgian descent (two countries which to varying degrees would like to enter the EU) I cannot understand most Eurosceptics. Why do people want their civilization to be weak, divided, and in decline?

Because they think they are either this guy: https://pics.me.me/freedom-quickmeme-com-17563734.png

This guy: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JjtU6qR4wZs/maxresdefault.jpg

Or this guy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... lossus.png


I completely agree with your assessment. It sometimes looks like this is a game of Hearts of Iron 4 and somebody clicked the 'boost fascism' button.

This is a perfect exsample of leftist thinking, that the right is always bad and the left is always good, that is just what this is, but it is their right to think this.

[Ctulhu]

Because they think they are either this guy: https://pics.me.me/freedom-quickmeme-com-17563734.png

This guy: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JjtU6qR4wZs/maxresdefault.jpg

Or this guy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... lossus.png


I completely agree with your assessment. It sometimes looks like this is a game of Hearts of Iron 4 and somebody clicked the 'boost fascism' button.

This is a perfect exsample of leftist thinking, that the right is always bad and the left is always good, that is just what this is, but it is their right to think this.

If a leftist hasn't cried about something the right did for one day, that day wasn't a good for them.

*It's a joke, don't get offended*

[Greater Miami Shores]

This is a perfect exsample of leftist thinking, that the right is always bad and the left is always good, that is just what this is, but it is their right to think this.

If a leftist hasn't cried about something the right did for one day, that day wasn't a good for them.

*It's a joke, don't get offended*

lol, i'm having a lol attack, anyone please have mercy and call 911

[Greater Miami Shores]

Just because the right does not believe in open borders and believes every nation has a right and duty to decide who and how many legal immigrant migrants per year can immigrate and its economy can absorb, and the requirements to do so, apply meet the requirements and wait your turn, and legal immigration is legal immigration and illegal immigration is illegal immigration and should not be tolerated, does not make us bad, racists, Nazis or Fascists.

[Chan Island]

Because they think they are either this guy: https://pics.me.me/freedom-quickmeme-com-17563734.png

This guy: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JjtU6qR4wZs/maxresdefault.jpg

Or this guy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... lossus.png


I completely agree with your assessment. It sometimes looks like this is a game of Hearts of Iron 4 and somebody clicked the 'boost fascism' button.

This is a perfect exsample of leftist thinking, that the right is always bad and the left is always good, that is just what this is, but it is their right to think this.

The right actually isn't always bad. They have some good ideas sprinkled around here and there.

It's just that Euroskeptism isn't one of them.

Just because the right does not believe in open borders and believes every nation has a right and duty to decide who and how many legal immigrant migrants per year can immigrate and its economy can absorb, and the requirements to do so, apply meet the requirements and wait your turn, and legal immigration is legal immigration and illegal immigration is illegal immigration and should not be tolerated, does not make us bad, racists, Nazis or Fascists.

It's remarkable though how often the people that claim to only care about those things flip to launch racist tirades. Sufficiently large numbers to make the rest be reasonably be concluded as the same to be honest.

This is a perfect exsample of leftist thinking, that the right is always bad and the left is always good, that is just what this is, but it is their right to think this.

If a leftist hasn't cried about something the right did for one day, that day wasn't a good for them.

*It's a joke, don't get offended*

*getting offended intensifies*

[Chestaan]

As an American of Turko-Georgian descent (two countries which to varying degrees would like to enter the EU) I cannot understand most Eurosceptics. Why do people want their civilization to be weak, divided, and in decline?

EU/ECB enforced austerity is a big part of it. Not only was the austerity a disaster for EU citizens, but there's no evidence that it actually achieved it's goal of making nations more solvent.

Even the IMF called for Greece to be given debt relief:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33945263

[Ctulhu]

Greater Miami Shores

I cringe everything I read "immigrant migrant" in one of your posts.
The word "immigrant" itself already states that the person is a migrant.

But I do agree with your POV.

[Chan Island]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aust ... e=facebook

Austria has introduced a new set of stringent laws against political islam in the country, and it seems like several dozen imams will be expelled.

From the sounds of it, these particular individuals are imams funded by the Turkish government.... to which I say then good riddance. Nothing but a fifth column to further the interests of an autocrat with a sultan-complex. Now to go after the Saudi funded ones too, who directly contribute to large numbers of young people going around liking jihad.

[Trumptonium1]

As an American of Turko-Georgian descent (two countries which to varying degrees would like to enter the EU) I cannot understand most Eurosceptics. Why do people want their civilization to be weak, divided, and in decline?

EU/ECB enforced austerity is a big part of it. Not only was the austerity a disaster for EU citizens, but there's no evidence that it actually achieved it's goal of making nations more solvent.

Even the IMF called for Greece to be given debt relief:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33945263

This is incorrect. Greece is very much more solvent than before - they have a budget surplus, a falling debt-to-GDP ratio, a very low 10-year bond of 4.71% (relative to previous 10 years - implying investor confidence in Greece remaining solvent long-term) and they are on the way to a current account surplus (pretty amazing for a Mediterranean/tourist country)

Other good news for Greece -
House prices are going up
House building is expanding
Taxes are down
Bank lending rates have been depressed by the ECB - now sub 5%. Great for businesses
Household debt continues to fall (not necessarily positive depending on the distribution income deciles)
Manufacturing is being created as a sector in Greece, and it is booming
Business confidence returning to pre-2008 trends
Growth is at 2.4%, the highest since 2007
Unemployment down to 20.1%, lowest since 2012. All sings for a sub-20% unemployment by the end of the summer.

All the signs are pretty positive for Greece, especially once they become a net exporter, allowing them to pay that debt off faster. Few questions around the continuing fall in private loans, stubborn consumer confidence and stagnant youth unemployment, though.

You can question whether austerity was the most optimal route for Greece, but you cannot question that it has been a success in obtaining its objective. On the other hand, France, which has refused to undergo austerity under Hollande and participated in Germany's demolishing of Greece, is nowhere near better off today than in 2008. Their debt is still growing and is circling 100%, their unemployment is still large and their government spending to GDP has not moved an inch since 2010 - at 57%. Private debt is growing in France (contrary to Germany, Netherlands, UK) and is now about 250% of GDP. Japan which has a 'debt crisis' is only 220%.

[Major-Tom]

Anyone hear of any opinion polling regarding the upcoming Swiss monetary referendum?

[Chestaan]

EU/ECB enforced austerity is a big part of it. Not only was the austerity a disaster for EU citizens, but there's no evidence that it actually achieved it's goal of making nations more solvent.

Even the IMF called for Greece to be given debt relief:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33945263

This is incorrect. Greece is very much more solvent than before - they have a budget surplus, a falling debt-to-GDP ratio, a very low 10-year bond of 4.71% (relative to previous 10 years - implying investor confidence in Greece remaining solvent long-term) and they are on the way to a current account surplus (pretty amazing for a Mediterranean/tourist country)

Other good news for Greece -
House prices are going up
House building is expanding
Taxes are down
Bank lending rates have been depressed by the ECB - now sub 5%. Great for businesses
Household debt continues to fall (not necessarily positive depending on the distribution income deciles)
Manufacturing is being created as a sector in Greece, and it is booming
Business confidence returning to pre-2008 trends
Growth is at 2.4%, the highest since 2007
Unemployment down to 20.1%, lowest since 2012. All sings for a sub-20% unemployment by the end of the summer.

All the signs are pretty positive for Greece, especially once they become a net exporter, allowing them to pay that debt off faster. Few questions around the continuing fall in private loans, stubborn consumer confidence and stagnant youth unemployment, though.

You can question whether austerity was the most optimal route for Greece, but you cannot question that it has been a success in obtaining its objective. On the other hand, France, which has refused to undergo austerity under Hollande and participated in Germany's demolishing of Greece, is nowhere near better off today than in 2008. Their debt is still growing and is circling 100%, their unemployment is still large and their government spending to GDP has not moved an inch since 2010 - at 57%. Private debt is growing in France (contrary to Germany, Netherlands, UK) and is now about 250% of GDP. Japan which has a 'debt crisis' is only 220%.

Greek debt/gdp ratio hasn't fallen, at least not as of 2017 Q3 where it stood at 177.4%. The whole point of austerity is to make this ratio fall and it has not done so. This is why I say it hasn't achieved its goal.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/ ... 42106473a4

I'm not sure why an unemployment rate being as low as it was in 2012 is necessarily something to celebrate, especially seeing as how the rest of the world has been growing quite quickly. Comparatively it's unemployment rates hasn't fallen by much, which says a lot seeing as it has been so massive.

As for low bond yields I think it needs to be acknowledged that quite a lot of that is due to the fact that investors don't believe the EU will let Greece default, rather than Greece being particularly trustworthy borrowers.

Japan is a quite interesting case, and I can't remember exactly why it can sustain such massive debt levels but I think it's to do with the fact that so much of it is held domestically.