SCOTUS Sides With Baker in LGBT Wedding Cake Case

[Vassenor]

"Discrimination is OK because there are other options" is not sound logic. It's de-facto segregation.

Not so. An interesting hypothetical scenario is the County Clerk case.

Q. What if there was not a single county clerk in the whole State willing to issue the marriage certificate?
A. Goto a different state.
Q. And if the same thing happens in all 50 states??
A. Then you must ask yourselves how the SCOTUS came to make such an unpopular decision, and let them bake cakes.

I'm not following your logic.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

So how is not being able to discriminate slavery?

With obvious nuance, context, and exceptions, if you're declaring to offer a public service, you can't pick and choose from the public you serve, because then it's not a public service.

As things currently stand, liberty to exercise religion freely (note: like the anti-discrimination act, this constitutional right has no defined boundaries) does not detract another's liberty to enter into marriage. If you should say a Christian is not at liberty to refuse to bake a wedding cake, then I can say the gay customer is at full liberty to purchase one from a willing baker, or bake it himself.

If that Christian baker then disrupts the wedding by smashing the cake - whatever its source - then there should already be a law somewhere criminalising this.

If the baker wanted to continuously exercise his religion at work then maybe he should have opened up a church instead of a bakery or started the bakery as a religious institution in the first place.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

If the baker wanted to continuously exercise his religion at work then maybe he should have opened up a church instead of a bakery or started the bakery as a religious institution in the first place.

Do you wear a cross to work? Have you any collegues with religious-themed tattooes? Do you or any of your clients find these offensive? Were they so put off that they quit or went away? Can your employer fire any staff for these reasons? Do you see where you are going with this?

[The New California Republic]

If the baker wanted to continuously exercise his religion at work then maybe he should have opened up a church instead of a bakery or started the bakery as a religious institution in the first place.

Do you wear a cross to work? Have you any collegues with religious-themed tattooes? Do you or any of your clients find these offensive? Were they so put off that they quit or went away? Can your employer fire any staff for these reasons? Do you see where you are going with this?

"Employee" and "Proprietor" are two completely separate things, you are conflating the two.

[Big Jim P]

With all the secular and/or non-christian bakers available, this had to be a setup from the get-go. I have no love of christianity, but there is no way this doesn't reek of bullshit.

[Internationalist Bastard]

With all the secular and/or non-christian bakers available, this had to be a setup from the get-go. I have no love of christianity, but there is no way this doesn't reek of bullshit.

We’re the bakers well known as Christians who didn’t serve gays? Or did this couple just go oh a bakery, let’s go here

[Vassenor]

With all the secular and/or non-christian bakers available, this had to be a setup from the get-go. I have no love of christianity, but there is no way this doesn't reek of bullshit.

[citation needed]

[The New California Republic]

With all the secular and/or non-christian bakers available, this had to be a setup from the get-go. I have no love of christianity, but there is no way this doesn't reek of bullshit.

As far as I am aware, the name of the bakery in question isn't "Christian Bakery No Homo", so how would the average Joe homo know?

[Ors Might]

As things currently stand, liberty to exercise religion freely (note: like the anti-discrimination act, this constitutional right has no defined boundaries) does not detract another's liberty to enter into marriage. If you should say a Christian is not at liberty to refuse to bake a wedding cake, then I can say the gay customer is at full liberty to purchase one from a willing baker, or bake it himself.

If that Christian baker then disrupts the wedding by smashing the cake - whatever its source - then there should already be a law somewhere criminalising this.

"Discrimination is OK because there are other options" is not sound logic. It's de-facto segregation.

But “Artists have to make whatever commission I want brcaude I’m gay” is not much sounder.

[The Grims]

With all the secular and/or non-christian bakers available, this had to be a setup from the get-go. I have no love of christianity, but there is no way this doesn't reek of bullshit.

We’re the bakers well known as Christians who didn’t serve gays? Or did this couple just go oh a bakery, let’s go here

Thr couple did travel a considerable distance, no doubt passing dozens if not hundreds of bakers on route.

But maybe that was because they really love the work of this particular pastry artist.

[Internationalist Bastard]

We’re the bakers well known as Christians who didn’t serve gays? Or did this couple just go oh a bakery, let’s go here

Thr couple did travel a considerable distance, no doubt passing dozens if not hundreds of bakers on route.

But maybe that was because they really love the work of this particular pastry artist.

Yeah I’m inclined to trust Occams Razor here and assume they just believed it was the best bakery. Maybe a friend or relative had a cake there

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

"Employee" and "Proprietor" are two completely separate things, you are conflating the two.

Neither term is found in the First Amendment either, so?

By the way, I just realised the fact that the lower courts in Colorado all ruled in favour priorly, despite the unconstitutionality of this law means the State is trying to impose boundaries on free exercise of religion which is tantamount to amending the Bill of Rights by judicial diktat! (the sneak amendment of an amendment, actually. See: Amend.18 Liquor Prohibition / repealed by Amend.21)

US Constitution article 5:
" The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, ... "

[Pilarcraft]

"Discrimination is OK because there are other options" is not sound logic. It's de-facto segregation.

But “Artists have to make whatever commission I want brcaude I’m gay” is not much sounder.

Art has a definition. Baking a cake doesn't fit that. Doesn't matter if the SC decided it did, baking cake isn't commissioning an art. It's employing not even employing a service. It's purchasing an item.

[Ors Might]

But “Artists have to make whatever commission I want brcaude I’m gay” is not much sounder.

Art has a definition. Baking a cake doesn't fit that. Doesn't matter if the SC decided it did, baking cake isn't commissioning an art. It's employing not even employing a service. It's purchasing an item.

Designing and baking a unique cake isn’t art? The couple wasn’t buying a premade cake.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

despite the unconstitutionality of this law means the State is trying to impose boundaries on free exercise of religion which is tantamount

There are already boundaries to the free exercise of religion.

Things you can’t do with your free exercise of religion:

- Ritual sacrifice another human being (animals too in some place).
- Kill, rape, maim, injure, torture, etc.
- Steal
- Damage or destroy property.
- Enslave people.
Etc, etc.

Claiming religious freedom will not prevent you from facing legal retribution for doing any of these things.

[Galloism]

Art has a definition.

I'm interested in this. What IS the definition of art?

[The New California Republic]

"Employee" and "Proprietor" are two completely separate things, you are conflating the two.

Neither term is found in the First Amendment either, so?

You jumped from talking about proprietors to employees in a heartbeat, it just muddied the waters unnecessarily. You were treating them as if they were interchangeable, they aren't. It'd be like me talking about sausages one minute, then suddenly I start talking about baguettes, while treating them as if they are exactly the same thing...

[Pilarcraft]

Art has a definition. Baking a cake doesn't fit that. Doesn't matter if the SC decided it did, baking cake isn't commissioning an art. It's employing not even employing a service. It's purchasing an item.

Designing and baking a unique cake isn’t art? The couple wasn’t buying a premade cake.

No it's not? Art has a definition. Only seven specific things are classified as art, and baking a cake, no matter how beautiful or majestic, isn't one of them.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Art has a definition.

I'm interested in this. What IS the definition of art?

What is the art of definition?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Art has a definition. Baking a cake doesn't fit that. Doesn't matter if the SC decided it did, baking cake isn't commissioning an art. It's employing not even employing a service. It's purchasing an item.

Designing and baking a unique cake isn’t art? The couple wasn’t buying a premade cake.

It's a craft.

[Pilarcraft]

Art has a definition.

I'm interested in this. What IS the definition of art?

Specifically speaking, Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.
You don't bake a cake so I can look at it and say "damn, that's beautiful"
You bake a cake so I can eat it. The beauty part isn't why the cake exists, it's merely a side effect. The more beautiful it is, the more I'll pay for it, probably, but it is not intended to be appreciated for its beauty. It's intended to be eaten. So, if you had to classify it as something, it'd be craft, not art.

[Ors Might]

Designing and baking a unique cake isn’t art? The couple wasn’t buying a premade cake.

No it's not? Art has a definition. Only seven specific things are classified as art, and baking a cake, no matter how beautiful or majestic, isn't one of them.

That sounds pretty damn subjective. The only actual difference between cake designing, along with food presentation in general, and other forms of art is that one eats the former. That’s it. That is the only difference. And its not even all that big a difference. Plenty pieces of art weren’t meant to lastfor a particularly long period of time.

[Galloism]

I'm interested in this. What IS the definition of art?

Specifically speaking, Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.
You don't bake a cake so I can look at it and say "damn, that's beautiful"
You bake a cake so I can eat it. The beauty part isn't why the cake exists, it's merely a side effect. The more beautiful it is, the more I'll pay for it, probably, but it is not intended to be appreciated for its beauty. It's intended to be eaten. So, if you had to classify it as something, it'd be craft, not art.

I don't think that's true. I would argue a well crafted cake would be primarily appreciated for its beauty, and secondarily appreciated for its tastiness. Otherwise, a well crafted 8 layer cake would cost about the same as a really big flat cake of equal proportions. This is not true.

Can you seriously argue this was not primarily designed to be appreciated for its beauty?

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

There are already boundaries to the free exercise of religion.

Things you can’t do with your free exercise of religion:

- Ritual sacrifice another human being (animals too in some place).
- Kill, rape, maim, injure, torture, etc.
- Steal
- Damage or destroy property.
- Enslave people.
Etc, etc.

Claiming religious freedom will not prevent you from facing legal retribution for doing any of these things.

Please refer to this post.

You jumped from talking about proprietors to employees in a heartbeat, it just muddied the waters unnecessarily. You were treating them as if they were interchangeable, they aren't. It'd be like me talking about sausages one minute, then suddenly I start talking about baguettes, while treating them as if they are exactly the same thing...

"We the people", "For the people", "Area 51 has aliens!!! Liberate US!!!!"
Well, when I've exhausted my puns I'll head straight back to my Hardened Mod Shelter... cos my eyes just saw colourful words. (Edit: with no attribution. ALIENS)

[Ors Might]

Designing and baking a unique cake isn’t art? The couple wasn’t buying a premade cake.

It's a craft.

A craft involving art. And unless we’re saying that art can never evolve beyond what we initially conceptualize it as, its silly to say that food cannot be used as a medium for art.