SCOTUS Sides With Baker in LGBT Wedding Cake Case

[Thermodolia]

Oh of course not. But I don’t know why anyone would turn down a chance to make money. It’s art, you can claim it would cost $4,000 to make the damn thing and if they stupidly agree to it you just got a whole lot a money

Money isn't everything.

Your loss.

I’ll be very happy if I can separate thousands of dollars from the hands of racist idiots.

[Salus Maior]

Money isn't everything.

Your loss.

I’ll be very happy if I can separate thousands of dollars from the hands of racist idiots.

Would you do the same if the Westboro Baptists asked you to create anti-military content? Like their military funeral protests?

[Thermodolia]

Oh of course not. But I don’t know why anyone would turn down a chance to make money. It’s art, you can claim it would cost $4,000 to make the damn thing and if they stupidly agree to it you just got a whole lot a money

Money isn't everything.

Is it so hard for you to understand if someone would prefer not to be associated with something based on principle?

Ya know when ya assume you make an ass out me and an ass out of you.

I don’t think that artists should be forced to make art. However I was just saying what I would do and wasn’t even answering said question.

[The Lone Alliance]

The case initially did start with the Commission, but it was reviewed by the Colorado Court of Appeals

And it was the Commissions comments that made caused the supreme court to issue the bench slap. The court of appeals should have sent it back to the commission with instructions not to compare refusal to bake with the holocaust, and the offending members should have been forced to recuse themselves from the rehearing.

They literally tried to use the Holocaust as their justification?

Yeah someone fire them all. If your first argument is Godwin you're incompetent.

[Thermodolia]

Your loss.

I’ll be very happy if I can separate thousands of dollars from the hands of racist idiots.

Would you do the same if the Westboro Baptists asked you to create anti-military content? Like their military funeral protests?

Sure why not. If they want to pay $50,000 for it, 1,000,000 if it’s gonna be used at a protest, they can go ahead. If they are dumb enough to pay it than I’m gonna make it.

[The Lone Alliance]

Would you do the same if the Westboro Baptists asked you to create anti-military content? Like their military funeral protests?

Sure why not. If they want to pay $50,000 for it, 1,000,000 if it’s gonna be used at a protest, they can go ahead. If they are dumb enough to pay it than I’m gonna make it.

They'll just sue you for changing the price on them.

[Proctopeo]

Sure why not. If they want to pay $50,000 for it, 1,000,000 if it’s gonna be used at a protest, they can go ahead. If they are dumb enough to pay it than I’m gonna make it.

They'll just sue you for changing the price on them.

Not if your prices aren't listed or you specify the different prices.

[Thermodolia]

Sure why not. If they want to pay $50,000 for it, 1,000,000 if it’s gonna be used at a protest, they can go ahead. If they are dumb enough to pay it than I’m gonna make it.

They'll just sue you for changing the price on them.

It’s art. There is no base price or price change. If my art is going to be used in a protest I’m gonna need a shit load of money if I’m going to make something for said protest.

Anti-Government, anti-military, and unpatriotic things start at $50k. Treasonous things start at $5k a pop. The racist, homophobic, general asshole fee is $1,000.

So it’s not a price change at all. Therefore I win the case and they just wasted millions. Sounds like a win win to me

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

But the United States has a secular government. They can’t not and should not prohibit people from expressing their religious views in public. People and business are allowed to express their personal and religious beliefs, just like people and business can express pro-LGBT views. I do believe there is a difference between having religious based laws and people and business expressing their religious views.

Ya a secular government isn’t enough. The state needs to be state secularist. It’s the only way our society will survive. We should follow France and ban the public display of religion and the public wear of religious garments

Never. Going. To. Happen. And it should not ever happen. First, that would require admitting the 1A, and that is not going to happen. My smart ass dar is going off like crazy reading your response, so I’m just going to leave it at that.

[Salus Maior]

Would you do the same if the Westboro Baptists asked you to create anti-military content? Like their military funeral protests?

Sure why not. If they want to pay $50,000 for it, 1,000,000 if it’s gonna be used at a protest, they can go ahead. If they are dumb enough to pay it than I’m gonna make it.

So you'd contribute to the desecration of a military funeral for money.

How very mercenary of you. Here I thought you had some loyalty to your fellow soldiers.

Of course, I don't actually believe you'd do that based on what I know of you. You're bullshitting to make a foolish point that money > principle.

[Thermodolia]

Ya a secular government isn’t enough. The state needs to be state secularist. It’s the only way our society will survive. We should follow France and ban the public display of religion and the public wear of religious garments

Never. Going. To. Happen. And it should not ever happen. First, that would require admitting the 1A, and that is not going to happen. My smart ass dar is going off like crazy reading your response, so I’m just going to leave it at that.

Did I mention that I’m not a fan of the first. Like at all.

[New Emeline]

Never. Going. To. Happen. And it should not ever happen. First, that would require admitting the 1A, and that is not going to happen. My smart ass dar is going off like crazy reading your response, so I’m just going to leave it at that.

Did I mention that I’m not a fan of the first. Like at all.

hooah that's a big one

[Thermodolia]

Sure why not. If they want to pay $50,000 for it, 1,000,000 if it’s gonna be used at a protest, they can go ahead. If they are dumb enough to pay it than I’m gonna make it.

So you'd contribute to the desecration of a military funeral for money.

How very mercenary of you. Here I thought you had some loyalty to your fellow soldiers.

Of course, I don't actually believe you'd do that based on what I know of you. You're bullshitting to make a foolish point that money > principle.

Like I said if they are dumb enough to pay me almost 2 Million dollars for a fucking cake than I’m going to make the shitest cake ever and donate that 2 Million to several military organizations in their name.

Instead of just telling them to get the fuck out of my store, I’d go the extremely petty route and take as much money as I can get from them, and then make a donation with said money in their name to the thing they are protesting or hate.

[Saiwania]

What was the other state (or was this before Hawaii was a state)?

Illinois was the first state to repeal their sodomy laws in 1962.

[New Emeline]

When homosexuality was illegal in 49 states, those were truly the good old days. It is too bad good that the clock can't be turned back to that.

ftfy

[Thermodolia]

What was the other state (or was this before Hawaii was a state)?

Illinois was the first state to repeal their sodomy laws in 1962.

Ya know the reason why Georgia’s sodomy law got overturned was because of a case involving a straight guy get head from a girl. Yes that’s right, oral sex is legally considered sodomy.

[Salus Maior]

So you'd contribute to the desecration of a military funeral for money.

How very mercenary of you. Here I thought you had some loyalty to your fellow soldiers.

Of course, I don't actually believe you'd do that based on what I know of you. You're bullshitting to make a foolish point that money > principle.

Like I said if they are dumb enough to pay me almost 2 Million dollars for a fucking cake than I’m going to make the shitest cake ever and donate that 2 Million to several military organizations in their name.

Instead of just telling them to get the fuck out of my store, I’d go the extremely petty route and take as much money as I can get from them, and then make a donation with said money in their name to the thing they are protesting or hate.

You'd still be equipping them to disturb a soldier's funeral. Regardless of whatever they pay you or what you do with the money that would happen.

It'd be far easier to just say "No, I'd rather not because I don't support that". And you should have every right to say that.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Never. Going. To. Happen. And it should not ever happen. First, that would require admitting the 1A, and that is not going to happen. My smart ass dar is going off like crazy reading your response, so I’m just going to leave it at that.

Did I mention that I’m not a fan of the first. Like at all.

Sure you arn’t.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Like I said if they are dumb enough to pay me almost 2 Million dollars for a fucking cake than I’m going to make the shitest cake ever and donate that 2 Million to several military organizations in their name.

Instead of just telling them to get the fuck out of my store, I’d go the extremely petty route and take as much money as I can get from them, and then make a donation with said money in their name to the thing they are protesting or hate.

You'd still be equipping them to disturb a soldier's funeral. Regardless of whatever they pay you or what you do with the money that would happen.

It'd be far easier to just say "No, I'd rather not because I don't support that". And you should have every right to say that.

Some people would take money from anyone, as long if it’s legal, and hey, that’s their right. I have no issue with that, at all. Some people don’t want to get involved in anyway in things they consider immoral and that’s their right and I have no issue with that.

That’s how a free society works.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

EDIT: Well-meaning people have pointed out to me that this proposal won't work in a constitutionally strong jurisdiction such as the United States. SPOILER'd. Thanks.

This is a complex case. Both of the popular options under consideration present unique problems:

If "publicly-listed vs privately-owned" line of argument is used, then the Kim Davis (Kentucky county clerk) ruling will be thrown into jeopardy

If "artisan's expression" line of argument is used, then restaurant chefs (and fast food employees), photographers, florists, etc. will be put at risk

So I propose a fair, testifiable and provable measure:
QUALITY OF WORKSMANSHIP (based off Conflict of Interest)

Basically, if the service/goods provider's sincerely-held religious beliefs can result in probable, provable reduction in quality of service/goods delivered/sold, then he/she has valid standing to refuse delivery, based on religious/conscientious grounds relating to conflict of interest.

Using a simple example of cooked foods:
1. Pre-prepared burgers will not be less tasty even if the person preparing the burger realises it was sold over-the-counter to a customer who is gay.
2. Restaurants where orders are taken in the dining hall but meals are cooked in the kitchen will not suffer reduction in quality of meals served (unless the waiter/waitress cheats on the order slip, but that is ground for dismissal if caught)
3. Buffet catering businesses should be exempt from serving gay weddings if conflict is found between the service-provider's religious beliefs and the nature of the event, as there is a possibility of the reduction in quality of service arising from such a conflict.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

And i think that religion should be a private only matter and shouldn’t but into the public sphere at all. I’m not saying that religion should be banned or anything like that, I’m religious myself. But religion is a private matter and not something that should be involved in Business, public, and government matters

PRIVATE BUSINESS IS PRIVATE. Again, I think no one should be forced to go against their beliefs because the Government or other people said so. Again I say "if one Damn baker won't bake you a damn cake, find another damn baker". A Private Business is a thing for a reason. It was paid by someone own money so it should be their call who they serve and who they don't. No matter what. If it's a Gay Baker denying a Straight couple or a Straight Baker denying a gay couple. I don't care your Race, Religion, Nationality, Political Beliefs, Gender or anything else, if someone refuses to serve you in a PRIVATE BUSINESS than that's their right.

Being a ‘private’ business doesn’t magically absolve a business from being required to follow the relevant laws and regulations required to operate a business.

You claimed that the Preservation of Religious Freedom Act gives businesses the right to refuse ANYONE service. You are clearly wrong...

I think any Private busniess should be allowed to deny anyone service for ANY reason because the government or anyone should not force anyone to do something that they don't want to. I don't want a Christian Baker being forced to bake a Cake for a Same-Sex Couple if the Baker doesn't want to bake the cake and I would want a Same-Sex Baker not be forced to bake for a Christian Couple if the Baker doesn't want to. That is what Freedom will is.

But why should a business have to discriminate against anyone for stupid reasons in the first place? If you’re in the business to make money then you should down to accept anyone’s money regardless of who they are.

[Telconi]

PRIVATE BUSINESS IS PRIVATE. Again, I think no one should be forced to go against their beliefs because the Government or other people said so. Again I say "if one Damn baker won't bake you a damn cake, find another damn baker". A Private Business is a thing for a reason. It was paid by someone own money so it should be their call who they serve and who they don't. No matter what. If it's a Gay Baker denying a Straight couple or a Straight Baker denying a gay couple. I don't care your Race, Religion, Nationality, Political Beliefs, Gender or anything else, if someone refuses to serve you in a PRIVATE BUSINESS than that's their right.

Being a ‘private’ business doesn’t magically absolve a business from being required to follow the relevant laws and regulations required to operate a business.

I think any Private busniess should be allowed to deny anyone service for ANY reason because the government or anyone should not force anyone to do something that they don't want to. I don't want a Christian Baker being forced to bake a Cake for a Same-Sex Couple if the Baker doesn't want to bake the cake and I would want a Same-Sex Baker not be forced to bake for a Christian Couple if the Baker doesn't want to. That is what Freedom will is.

But why should a business have to discriminate against anyone for stupid reasons in the first place? If you’re in the business to make money then you should down to accept anyone’s money regardless of who they are.

Yeah, what someone is "down" to do really isn't any of your business.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Being a ‘private’ business doesn’t magically absolve a business from being required to follow the relevant laws and regulations required to operate a business.



But why should a business have to discriminate against anyone for stupid reasons in the first place? If you’re in the business to make money then you should down to accept anyone’s money regardless of who they are.

Yeah, what someone is "down" to do really isn't any of your business.

I don’t really care whether or not it’s any of my business, I’m still going to question the logic behind garbage business decisions.

[Telconi]

Yeah, what someone is "down" to do really isn't any of your business.

I don’t really care whether or not it’s any of my business, I’m still going to question the logic behind garbage business decisions.

Putting everything into the realm of "business decision" is hardly logical in and of itself.

[Iahselene]

Also, forcing your opinions on people is hardly helpful. It's just a situation where no one wins. The baker would be unhappy making the cake, and LGBT couple would be unhappy with discrimination.