An Upgrade to Yourself?

[The New California Republic]

But you dont know that until after the operation.

I'd still wait for the reputable agency, and for it to pass all national and international safety standards, rather than trust the billionaire (even without knowing the side effects).

Not letting people test stuff on you seems like a pretty good rule to live by.

Hmm. Occasionally that isn't an option. Cancer patients are a case-in-point. Past a certain stage, when other treatments have failed, cancer patients are normally more than willing to try any treatment that the doctor throws at them, no matter how experimental it is. Similarly, if a person is fully paralyzed, I'd expect they would likely be more than willing to try an experimental treatment, and either address the side effects later or learn to live with them.

[The New California Republic]

I'll wait until the reputable research agency picks it ups and works out the kinks (like the whole the-chip-talks-to-you thing), thanks.

Indeed, I think I could do without having an implant whispering directly into my brain.

It depends what it is saying. If I could have an intelligent conversation with it, and it agreed to give me a break every so often, then I could live with it. Hell, I could even learn to like it. However, it'd be a whole different level of weirdness if the thing tried to seduce me.

[The Free Joy State]

I'd still wait for the reputable agency, and for it to pass all national and international safety standards, rather than trust the billionaire (even without knowing the side effects).

Not letting people test stuff on you seems like a pretty good rule to live by.

Hmm. Occasionally that isn't an option. Cancer patients are a case-in-point. Past a certain stage, when other treatments have failed, cancer patients are normally more than willing to try any treatment that the doctor throws at them, no matter how experimental it is. Similarly, if a person is fully paralyzed, I'd expect they would likely be more than willing to try an experimental treatment, and either address the side effects later or learn to live with them.

Hmm... You see, I get that point.

Ignoring the singular silliness of this whole billionaire-with-dumb-offer premise, I've known people with terminal cancer, who've tried treatments in earlier stages of testing.

But, AFAIK, they don't just throw anything at them. They have passed earlier stages of safety tests and are showing signs of being promising. They don't usually offer completely unknown treatments that haven't at least passed some initial stages of testing.

This is basically some billionaire with a hobby for amateur brain surgery and someone who could have lived a long -- albeit different to how they planned -- life, which is different from scientists and researchers and doctors coming up with a plan for some last-ditch attempt to help someone who is known to have less than six months to live with drugs that have already passed initial stages of testing but are not approved for this particular cancer yet.

[Telconi]

Because I haven't been given one. If the alternative is him putting some God awful computer in my brain, then yes.

Whats awful about it and its not in your brain. Its in your neck on your spinal column.

It talks to me. And the actual physical location isn't relevant.

[The New California Republic]

But, AFAIK, they don't just throw anything at them. They have passed earlier stages of safety tests and are showing signs of being promising. They don't usually offer completely unknown treatments that haven't at least passed some initial stages of testing.

This is basically some billionaire with a hobby for amateur brain surgery and someone who could have lived a long -- albeit different to how they planned -- life, which is different from scientists and researchers and doctors coming up with a plan for some last-ditch attempt to help someone who is known to have less than six months to live with drugs that have already passed initial stages of testing but are not approved for this particular cancer yet.

I think I just assumed that the eccentric billionaire had done some experiments prior to offering me the treatment, and was reasonably sure of all the scientific theory related to it. Sure, I'd ask for some tangible research material related to his project (that I would have looked at by a neutral third-party scientist) before going under the knife, I would want to at least be well-informed.

[Ifreann]

Indeed, I think I could do without having an implant whispering directly into my brain.

---

I don't know if you're aware of this, but it is quite normal to not extend quite that level of trust to complete strangers who are promising to do something good for you.

Fine thats your right to not be trusting but Id rather not be bedridden or in a wheelchair for the rest of my days.

I won't be bedridden or in a wheelchair for the rest of my days. This technology is not going to remain the exclusive property of this billionaire forever. I just need to not die before then and I can make use of reputable technology that won't literally invade my mind.

---

Indeed, I think I could do without having an implant whispering directly into my brain.

It depends what it is saying. If I could have an intelligent conversation with it, and it agreed to give me a break every so often, then I could live with it. Hell, I could even learn to like it. However, it'd be a whole different level of weirdness if the thing tried to seduce me.

Do you think Facebook or Apple would create something that would just have a pleasant chat with you and do nothing else?

Computer chips, obviously, don't have voices. What you'd be hearing in your head would be digital signals designed to be interpreted by your brain as a voice. Who's to say it can't start to emulate your voice? The ultimate in advertising, essentially placing thoughts in your mind that you can't distinguish from your own. And that's before we consider the implications of a tech giant knowing literally every twitch of your muscles.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Me being useful to literally anyone would be an upgrade

[The Free Joy State]

But, AFAIK, they don't just throw anything at them. They have passed earlier stages of safety tests and are showing signs of being promising. They don't usually offer completely unknown treatments that haven't at least passed some initial stages of testing.

This is basically some billionaire with a hobby for amateur brain surgery and someone who could have lived a long -- albeit different to how they planned -- life, which is different from scientists and researchers and doctors coming up with a plan for some last-ditch attempt to help someone who is known to have less than six months to live with drugs that have already passed initial stages of testing but are not approved for this particular cancer yet.

I think I just assumed that the eccentric billionaire had done some experiments prior to offering me the treatment, and was reasonably sure of all the scientific theory related to it. Sure, I'd ask for some tangible research material related to his project (that I would have looked at by a neutral third-party scientist) before going under the knife, I would want to at least be well-informed.

I think I must have assumed he was a kind of "screw the rules, I have money" kind of billionaire.

I must have an innate anti-billionaire bias.

I still wouldn't go under the knife with any but a highly qualified surgeon from a recognised national body, following quantitative and qualitative research by multiple third parties, but -- if he had some research to back him up -- I wouldn't petition against the billionaire's experiments.

If he was just a crazy, experimenting billionaire without any scientific backing, hell yeah, I'd probably be part of a campaign against him.

Fine thats your right to not be trusting but Id rather not be bedridden or in a wheelchair for the rest of my days.

I won't be bedridden or in a wheelchair for the rest of my days. This technology is not going to remain the exclusive property of this billionaire forever. I just need to not die before then and I can make use of reputable technology that won't literally invade my mind.

I'll wait for the NHS generic version. It's less shiny, and a bit bulkier (like generic paracetamol) but also less talky.

It'll do the job just as well, and won't invade my mind.

[San Lumen]

Indeed, I think I could do without having an implant whispering directly into my brain.

It depends what it is saying. If I could have an intelligent conversation with it, and it agreed to give me a break every so often, then I could live with it. Hell, I could even learn to like it. However, it'd be a whole different level of weirdness if the thing tried to seduce me.

It wouldn't be trying to do that and wouldn't be constantly talking to you.

[The New California Republic]

It depends what it is saying. If I could have an intelligent conversation with it, and it agreed to give me a break every so often, then I could live with it. Hell, I could even learn to like it. However, it'd be a whole different level of weirdness if the thing tried to seduce me.

It wouldn't be trying to do that and wouldn't be constantly talking to you.

I could live with that. I mean, we are already being constantly assaulted in our daily lives, both at home and at work, with various noises like *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that the dishwasher has finished, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say the microwave is done, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that a new tweet was just posted, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that the vacuum cleaner needs recharging or a filter change, etc etc etc, so having a voice in my head that speaks to me is but a small drop in a very large ocean of noise...

[San Lumen]

Whats awful about it and its not in your brain. Its in your neck on your spinal column.

It talks to me. And the actual physical location isn't relevant.

Why does that matter? Its not like it would be talking to you constantly and might even help you in some instances.

[Telconi]

It talks to me. And the actual physical location isn't relevant.

Why does that matter? Its not like it would be talking to you constantly and might even help you in some instances.

Yeah I highly doubt I'd want to be a captive audience for anything you've cooked up.

[Dooom35796821595]

It wouldn't be trying to do that and wouldn't be constantly talking to you.

I could live with that. I mean, we are already being constantly assaulted in our daily lives, both at home and at work, with various noises like *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that the dishwasher has finished, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say the microwave is done, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that a new tweet was just posted, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that the vacuum cleaner needs recharging or a filter change, etc etc etc, so having a voice in my head that speaks to me is but a small drop in a very large ocean of noise...

But it would be whispering in your head, possibly subliminally, telling you to buy a new thing, subscribe to a service, vote for a party, assassinate the president...

[San Lumen]

I could live with that. I mean, we are already being constantly assaulted in our daily lives, both at home and at work, with various noises like *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that the dishwasher has finished, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say the microwave is done, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that a new tweet was just posted, *BEEP BEEP BEEP* to say that the vacuum cleaner needs recharging or a filter change, etc etc etc, so having a voice in my head that speaks to me is but a small drop in a very large ocean of noise...

But it would be whispering in your head, possibly subliminally, telling you to buy a new thing, subscribe to a service, vote for a party, assassinate the president...

No it would not be.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Could you talk back to the computer chip?

[San Lumen]

Why does that matter? Its not like it would be talking to you constantly and might even help you in some instances.

Yeah I highly doubt I'd want to be a captive audience for anything you've cooked up.

This is not about me.

[San Lumen]

Could you talk back to the computer chip?

Yes

[Dooom35796821595]

But it would be whispering in your head, possibly subliminally, telling you to buy a new thing, subscribe to a service, vote for a party, assassinate the president...

No it would not be.

That’s what current AI does, why would yours be any different?

[San Lumen]

No it would not be.

That’s what current AI does, why would yours be any different?

The AI is merely operating your body for you. It has no agenda of any kind.

[Dooom35796821595]

That’s what current AI does, why would yours be any different?

The AI is merely operating your body for you. It has no agenda of any kind.

Right. So it can override your control? What about the agenda of the programmer, or if it gets hacked? Or corrupted?

[Ifreann]

I think I just assumed that the eccentric billionaire had done some experiments prior to offering me the treatment, and was reasonably sure of all the scientific theory related to it. Sure, I'd ask for some tangible research material related to his project (that I would have looked at by a neutral third-party scientist) before going under the knife, I would want to at least be well-informed.

I think I must have assumed he was a kind of "screw the rules, I have money" kind of billionaire.

I must have an innate anti-billionaire bias.

I still wouldn't go under the knife with any but a highly qualified surgeon from a recognised national body, following quantitative and qualitative research by multiple third parties, but -- if he had some research to back him up -- I wouldn't petition against the billionaire's experiments.

If he was just a crazy, experimenting billionaire without any scientific backing, hell yeah, I'd probably be part of a campaign against him.

I won't be bedridden or in a wheelchair for the rest of my days. This technology is not going to remain the exclusive property of this billionaire forever. I just need to not die before then and I can make use of reputable technology that won't literally invade my mind.

I'll wait for the NHS generic version. It's less shiny, and a bit bulkier (like generic paracetamol) but also less talky.

It'll do the job just as well, and won't invade my mind.

Or if it does, just reminds you to mind the gap.

[Soleanna]

To whom said it's against your religious belief, you say that yet you let your computer or even your phone speak to you; those are artificial intelligences too....

[Ifreann]

That’s what current AI does, why would yours be any different?

The AI is merely operating your body for you. It has no agenda of any kind.

It's always suspicious when something is artificially intelligent when it doesn't need to be.

[San Lumen]

The AI is merely operating your body for you. It has no agenda of any kind.

Right. So it can override your control? What about the agenda of the programmer, or if it gets hacked? Or corrupted?

It only has full control if your give your consent and that control is temporary.

[Dooom35796821595]

I think I must have assumed he was a kind of "screw the rules, I have money" kind of billionaire.

I must have an innate anti-billionaire bias.

I still wouldn't go under the knife with any but a highly qualified surgeon from a recognised national body, following quantitative and qualitative research by multiple third parties, but -- if he had some research to back him up -- I wouldn't petition against the billionaire's experiments.

If he was just a crazy, experimenting billionaire without any scientific backing, hell yeah, I'd probably be part of a campaign against him.



I'll wait for the NHS generic version. It's less shiny, and a bit bulkier (like generic paracetamol) but also less talky.

It'll do the job just as well, and won't invade my mind.

Or if it does, just reminds you to mind the gap.

Why would an NHS upgrade give TFL warnings?