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GUN TALK II: Doubletap

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Favorite style of muzzleloader?

Kentucky/Pennsylvania Longrifle
9
36%
Hawken
7
28%
Jaeger
2
8%
Brown Bess
5
20%
Other
2
8%
 
Total votes : 25

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Valentine Z
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Posts: 7269
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:32 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:Ohhh, the cruel zeroing errors. It'll be gone with age, it will also be gone if you accidentally drop the rifle. Have fun trying to pass the shooting range!

It's not that big of a deal for me or most people, but it's a big deal for those that wants to be specialists or officers.

The zeroing will also change if you change the loading. Different bullet weights, different propellants, differences in primers, can all affect accuracy.

I want to improve my long range shooting. It's something of a fantasy of mine to be able to make a 300 yard shot without a scope.

That's something I wish I can do, but... given my eyesight, it's not very likely.
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Posts: 5660
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:23 pm

Valentine Z wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:When it comes to service arms, militaries always say they're going to phase them out, and then they don't. The M1911 and it's variants remained in US military service for 70 odd years.

I know, right? According to Wikipedia, they say, "The rifle was to be available to both military and law enforcement markets by early 2015."

Which... okay, maybe a select group or section of SAF (Singapore Armed Forces), along with the international markets, got the rifle already. But we are still with our tried and tested SAR-21. I think it's also because of our non-offensive nature of the military; there's no point in replacing ALL of the thousands of SAR-21s when the rifles more or less work in the same mechanics. I suppose if they want to train us with the new rifle, they can always give us maybe 10-20 of them, like they did with the M16. We have to share the M16s! :P

To be fair, that's how they managed to get a Nat'l Gaurd unit armed with M1 Garands and M1918A2s listed as STRAC (Global-QRF on constant 24-hour alert status) by just doling-out a hundred M14s and a dozen M60s back in the 1960s.
(Should note that by that point the BAR mags were having difficulty feeding and in order to make reloads faster, the guns were often carried upside-down)

They were sorta expected to invade Moscow by way of Berlin with that had the Fulda gap gone hot. Using up the stockpiled .30-06 ammunition as they went... possibly even captured AKs.

To compensate with this defieciency, they were also given tactical nuclear rocket artillery.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

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Telconi
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Posts: 31703
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:01 pm

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:Ohhh, the cruel zeroing errors. It'll be gone with age, it will also be gone if you accidentally drop the rifle. Have fun trying to pass the shooting range!

It's not that big of a deal for me or most people, but it's a big deal for those that wants to be specialists or officers.

The zeroing will also change if you change the loading. Different bullet weights, different propellants, differences in primers, can all affect accuracy.

I want to improve my long range shooting. It's something of a fantasy of mine to be able to make a 300 yard shot without a scope.


Depending on your size of target, that might not be difficult.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:00 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:Ohhh, the cruel zeroing errors. It'll be gone with age, it will also be gone if you accidentally drop the rifle. Have fun trying to pass the shooting range!

It's not that big of a deal for me or most people, but it's a big deal for those that wants to be specialists or officers.

The zeroing will also change if you change the loading. Different bullet weights, different propellants, differences in primers, can all affect accuracy.

I want to improve my long range shooting. It's something of a fantasy of mine to be able to make a 300 yard shot without a scope.


I was trained to hit a human sized target at 300 meters over iron sights in the military. I did so regularly on qualifications.

I want to try very long-range shooting.600-1500 meters or more (with a scope of course).

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:01 am

Diopolis wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:Most of my experience has been with .22 bolt actions. Never had one jam or misfire on me. I've also never had a 20 GA misfire on me, despite putting dozens of rounds through both a semi-auto and a pump action while skeet shooting. War is a cruel necessity.

.22 semi-auto though, seems to jam on me a lot.


My old 10/22 never jammed, and I fed it some nasty shit.

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:05 am

This panic buying has my favorite gun buying website down. :(

Oh well, if I wait till the chinese virus crap blows over, I might be able to pic up a few really good deals. :)

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Pax Nerdvana
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Posts: 13694
Founded: May 22, 2017
Capitalizt

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:15 am

Valentine Z wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:The zeroing will also change if you change the loading. Different bullet weights, different propellants, differences in primers, can all affect accuracy.

I want to improve my long range shooting. It's something of a fantasy of mine to be able to make a 300 yard shot without a scope.

That's something I wish I can do, but... given my eyesight, it's not very likely.

That's too bad. Fortunately for myself, my shooting eye is my good eye.
Telconi wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:The zeroing will also change if you change the loading. Different bullet weights, different propellants, differences in primers, can all affect accuracy.

I want to improve my long range shooting. It's something of a fantasy of mine to be able to make a 300 yard shot without a scope.


Depending on your size of target, that might not be difficult.

That's true. A building makes an easy target.
Big Jim P wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:The zeroing will also change if you change the loading. Different bullet weights, different propellants, differences in primers, can all affect accuracy.

I want to improve my long range shooting. It's something of a fantasy of mine to be able to make a 300 yard shot without a scope.


I was trained to hit a human sized target at 300 meters over iron sights in the military. I did so regularly on qualifications.

I want to try very long-range shooting.600-1500 meters or more (with a scope of course).

I think it'd be fun to try that kind of range as well.
Right leaning male American independent and something of a libertarian. I am a fan of SF, Transformers, Star Wars, Star Trek, military history, retrogaming, NASA, and Nintendo, among other things. The First Amendment gives freedom; the Second ensures it. TANSTAAFL! Call me Pax. Also: puns.
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Kathol Rift
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Posts: 96
Founded: Mar 12, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Kathol Rift » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:35 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:That's something I wish I can do, but... given my eyesight, it's not very likely.

That's too bad. Fortunately for myself, my shooting eye is my good eye.
Telconi wrote:
Depending on your size of target, that might not be difficult.

That's true. A building makes an easy target.
Big Jim P wrote:
I was trained to hit a human sized target at 300 meters over iron sights in the military. I did so regularly on qualifications.

I want to try very long-range shooting.600-1500 meters or more (with a scope of course).

I think it'd be fun to try that kind of range as well.

I shoot those ranges pretty regularly. Well, up to 1000. I’ve never gone past that. 1000 is hard enough as it is. You really need to take wind, drop, leading your target, and all kinds of things into account for those ranges. It’s even harder when you’re out hunting and not on a range. That’s where leading the target comes in.
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Hurtful Thoughts
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5660
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:33 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Diopolis wrote:.22 semi-auto though, seems to jam on me a lot.


My old 10/22 never jammed, and I fed it some nasty shit.

Usually jams and misfeeds can be traced back to the magazine, anyways.

I mean, I've fed .22 short through a .22 LR box mag successfully a few times in a Mrln-795... a few stovepipes due to severe wear to the bolt raceway (top of reciever is so badly worn that the bolt can and often does clear-miss the bolt hold-open) and a couple of misfires due to priming compound being poorly spun into the rims. But that's all.
Factbook and general referance thread.
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Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

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Krasny-Volny
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Posts: 2785
Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Krasny-Volny » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:39 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:Most of my experience has been with .22 bolt actions. Never had one jam or misfire on me. I've also never had a 20 GA misfire on me, despite putting dozens of rounds through both a semi-auto and a pump action while skeet shooting. War is a cruel necessity.

.22 semi-auto though, seems to jam on me a lot.


Every time my 10/22 starts giving me problems I do a complete teardown and a very thorough cleaning. Fixes the problem every time.

Last time I dealt with feed problems and jams I’m pretty sure it was just a dirty bolt mechanism. Once I got it cleaned up she shot like a new gun again.
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31703
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:29 pm

Got my new muzzle brake in the mail today, and then I over tightened my last crush washer and made it fit bad. :(

No new crush washers anytime soon either, cuz muh Corona...
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PRO:
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ANTI:
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:36 pm

Krasny-Volny wrote:
Diopolis wrote:.22 semi-auto though, seems to jam on me a lot.


Every time my 10/22 starts giving me problems I do a complete teardown and a very thorough cleaning. Fixes the problem every time.

Last time I dealt with feed problems and jams I’m pretty sure it was just a dirty bolt mechanism. Once I got it cleaned up she shot like a new gun again.

The problem with buying them used is that sometimes, just sometimes... you get the one where the previous owner didn't so much scrub the carbon out as just coat it in thick oil to create a lapping compound and then kept shooting.
Factbook and general referance thread.
HOI <- Storefront (WiP)
Due to population-cuts, military-size currently being revised

The People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts is a gargantuan, environmentally stunning nation, ruled by Leader with an even hand, and renowned for its compulsory military service, multi-spousal wedding ceremonies, and smutty television.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War

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Telconi
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Posts: 31703
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:50 pm

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
Krasny-Volny wrote:
Every time my 10/22 starts giving me problems I do a complete teardown and a very thorough cleaning. Fixes the problem every time.

Last time I dealt with feed problems and jams I’m pretty sure it was just a dirty bolt mechanism. Once I got it cleaned up she shot like a new gun again.

The problem with buying them used is that sometimes, just sometimes... you get the one where the previous owner didn't so much scrub the carbon out as just coat it in thick oil to create a lapping compound and then kept shooting.


I also have a Marlin 795, and the only real issues I have are the bolt not holding open on an empty mag. Seems to be from some combination of worn mags and dirty action that causes it to happen.
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PRO:
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
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-Life
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-Non Interventionism
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-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:26 am

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:
Krasny-Volny wrote:
Every time my 10/22 starts giving me problems I do a complete teardown and a very thorough cleaning. Fixes the problem every time.

Last time I dealt with feed problems and jams I’m pretty sure it was just a dirty bolt mechanism. Once I got it cleaned up she shot like a new gun again.

The problem with buying them used is that sometimes, just sometimes... you get the one where the previous owner didn't so much scrub the carbon out as just coat it in thick oil to create a lapping compound and then kept shooting.

Business idea; gunfaxs. Like carfax, but for guns.
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Dylar
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dylar » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:32 am

Aclion wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:The problem with buying them used is that sometimes, just sometimes... you get the one where the previous owner didn't so much scrub the carbon out as just coat it in thick oil to create a lapping compound and then kept shooting.

Business idea; gunfaxs. Like carfax, but for guns.

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Pax Nerdvana
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Capitalizt

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:51 am

Kathol Rift wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:That's too bad. Fortunately for myself, my shooting eye is my good eye.
That's true. A building makes an easy target.
I think it'd be fun to try that kind of range as well.

I shoot those ranges pretty regularly. Well, up to 1000. I’ve never gone past that. 1000 is hard enough as it is. You really need to take wind, drop, leading your target, and all kinds of things into account for those ranges. It’s even harder when you’re out hunting and not on a range. That’s where leading the target comes in.

I can imagine that.
Right leaning male American independent and something of a libertarian. I am a fan of SF, Transformers, Star Wars, Star Trek, military history, retrogaming, NASA, and Nintendo, among other things. The First Amendment gives freedom; the Second ensures it. TANSTAAFL! Call me Pax. Also: puns.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:39 pm

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:51 pm

Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:59 pm

Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?

Are you defending your home from small woodland creatures?
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:01 pm

Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?

No. Not sufficient for anything bigger than a rabbit.
If all you need is home defense, honestly I'd recommend going with a 12 ga shotgun. The ammo's more expensive but the gun is usually cheaper than a rifle big enough to do the job.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:24 pm

Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?


Unfortunately not really. It has very little stopping power agains a man sized animal.
But you can get a cheap pump action like a Mossberg Maverick for a good price.
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Kathol Rift
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Kathol Rift » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:52 pm

Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?

I mean, it technically can kill/incapitate a person, but it doesn’t have the power to do that consistently. For home defense only, I’d recommend a shotgun or a pistol. You can get either of those used in good condition for a decent price. I’d say at least a 9mm for the pistol if you do it, probably a .45 would be better though, and a 12 gauge if you do a shotgun. Those will have better power for home defense while still not being as expensive as, say, an AR.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:53 pm

Kathol Rift wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?

I mean, it technically can kill/incapitate a person, but it doesn’t have the power to do that consistently. For home defense only, I’d recommend a shotgun or a pistol. You can get either of those used in good condition for a decent price. I’d say at least a 9mm for the pistol if you do it, probably a .45 would be better though, and a 12 gauge if you do a shotgun. Those will have better power for home defense while still not being as expensive as, say, an AR.

Both better power than an AR, although lacking in long range ability.
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The Chuck
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Posts: 2673
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chuck » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:03 pm

Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?


Welcome to the gun club Genivaria.

.22 LR is sufficient for a "plinking gun". If you want a home defense weapon (but not one for distance), I'd recommend a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun. If you get one, load it with #4 shot and you're good to go with keeping any unwanted aggressors off your property.

However since I'm assuming you might be a first time gun owner, here are the 4 rules of gun safety.

1. Approach every firearm as if it were loaded
2. Never aim the barrel of the firearm at anything except what you are willing to destroy (don't wave your gun and flag other people with the barrel)
3. Never have your finger on the trigger until it is time to shoot (Never have your finger in the trigger guard and on the trigger until you are prepared to pull the trigger)
4. Always make sure to verify your target and know what is behind your target. (Don't shoot unless you know what is behind your target and know you won't be hitting anything like your neighbor's dog 2 houses down).

^ These are just the 4 basic rules however if you are set on getting a gun, I'd recommend starting to watch videos, read, and once you go get your firearm, practice, practice, practice.
Last edited by The Chuck on Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Posts: 5660
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:23 pm

Genivaria wrote:Looking at getting a rifle from Academy, the cheapest options are 22LR.
Is that sufficient for home defense?

"Not ideal".

It has a good chance of mortally wounding a bloke with a hole, (or rather, puts a hole in a bloke) but usually they'll still have plenty enough fight and life in them to end yours with a baseball-bat before they leave.

Only really a thing if you can shoot them and fall-back until they succomb, which starts getting into bad legal mojo in "duty to retreat" jurisdictions, as you would have demonstrated ready access to a sanctuary and opted to use deadly-force instead.

Leaving the only "good shoot" option being to peg a hole and engage in fisticuffs until they've bled-out... which is a pretty terrible plan.

OTOH, buckshot works, and that's essentially .20 pellets chooching at roughly the same velocities... so a semi-auto mag dump could... maybe... "fingers crossed"
-IMO, though. Buckshot is also not an ideal self-defense option. A .62 caliber 1 ounce slug is something people have a hard time argueing against.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:31 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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