GUN TALK: Doubletap

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I've heard the FAL is bad.

Thoughts?

Shhh, the FN Cultists might hear you!

I dunno man that 1960s battle rifle aesthetic is pretty attractive, I think they might be on to something...

[Kaltovar]

I've heard the FAL is bad.

Thoughts?

Woah, I've literally never heard that. I'm actually not being sarcastic, I've only heard good things.

What have you heard?

[The Two Jerseys]

Shhh, the FN Cultists might hear you!

I dunno man that 1960s battle rifle aesthetic is pretty attractive, I think they might be on to something...

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

[Novus America]

The R8 has 8 rounds.

Well different strokes for different folks I suppose.
And it depends on the context too. I mean the “x is always best” wanking is fun, but the reality is it depends on personal preference and what context you are using it for TBH.

Sure, user error, bad ammo, lack of maintenance/cleaning, bad mags are the problem in most cases. I guess my problem was I used Navy Beretta 9s, and those were awful.

Because the maintenance, ammo and mags are all shit.
Gave me a really bad aversion to semi autos.

And I find I shoot better with revolvers.

But hey if you want to carry a 9mm semi auto with a magazine bigger than the gun enjoy.
Although revolvers are also less restricted by the gun grabbing nanny state. Which perhaps should not be a problem, but it is a problem in Democrat controlled areas.

Yeah, preference and purpose. In reality most bullets and guns are pretty effective now.

As for military berettas I've heard horror stories, up to and including hearing about them exploding. In my case it's a pretty reliable model (don't want to say because people might track me down ... It's kind of uncommon in my state) firing only Federal 9mm or Blazer, and not only is the gun maintained but I clean and oil my magazines and their springs.

I'll say this ... I've had failures with dirty semi autos that didn't happen when they were cleaned. Usually failure to feed or extract. Some people say "If the gun doesn't work when it's dirty it's not a real gun" and I get that, but a lot of these issues really can be fixed if you just remember to clean it once a week (if you're shooting every week) and in my case that's not a problem because I love doing that.

Never had a problem with dirt I picked up DURING firing, only stuff that's caked on from weeks or months of very heavy use and mixed with sticky/shitty oils.

Also lol for the R8 ... You got me there.

Edit: Federal is my carry round, Blazer is my target shooting round. And yes, I do sometimes bring Federal to the range to keep up to date ... But they perform pretty similarly. Blazer is the cheapest thing around here other than steel case, and fuck steel case.

As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.

I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).

The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.

But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.

I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.

[Kaltovar]

I dunno man that 1960s battle rifle aesthetic is pretty attractive, I think they might be on to something...

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

Gaze upon the majesty

[Novus America]

I dunno man that 1960s battle rifle aesthetic is pretty attractive, I think they might be on to something...

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

Although the full auto on it was fairly silly. Although I do want a M-14, and many new makes lack the happy switch.

Still the M-14 is one sexy beast.

[The Chuck]

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

Although the full auto on it was fairly silly. Although I do want a M-14, and many new makes lack the happy switch.

Still the M-14 is one sexy beast.

[Novus America]

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

Gaze upon the majesty

Not enough‘Murcia!

Now this is sexy.
https://images.app.goo.gl/PPSzWU2Fc4Xq8vHk9

Me want.

(In actuality they are pretty similar weapons and the M-14 can have a synthetic stock, it is more preference).

[The Two Jerseys]

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

Gaze upon the majesty

That's the station wagon with fake wood paneling of battle rifles...

[Kaltovar]

As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.

I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).

The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.

But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.

I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.

Stories like this about them is why, even though I love the look of the Beretta 92 and I hear they've been improved a lot in recent years, I will never carry one for self defense.

I won't even pretend to deny that Military 9mm is a lot less effective than Military 45 because of the fact they're all FMJ.

One reason I can't use revolvers very well well, and it's a personal reason regarding the issue of personal comfort, is that I'm actually more accurate when I'm firing rapidly. I'm a decent shot slowly, but my groups are actually tighter when I'm firing as fast as I can. Pretty sure I need to work on not jerking the trigger as much ... I found that I'm using the tip of my finger to squeeze it, but if I press the trigger right into where the joint connects I get a lot less jerk, so I've been having good results doing that. Part of the problem is the gun has a kind of awful glock style trigger safety and a heavy pull, but I'm still a good enough shot with it that I like the added safety because I carry with the manual safety off.

[Kaltovar]

Gaze upon the majesty

That's the station wagon with fake wood paneling of battle rifles...

That is real wood, not the fake wood on the stock L1A1.

[The Two Jerseys]

That's the station wagon with fake wood paneling of battle rifles...

That is real wood, not the fake wood on the stock L1A1.

That's the station wagon with real wood veneer paneling of battle rifles...

[Loben The 2nd]

daily reminder the fal wouldve been better then the M14.

[The Two Jerseys]

daily reminder the fal wouldve been better then the M14.

Fortunately I'm not the military and can buy rifles based solely on how fucking sexy they look.

[Novus America]

As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.

I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).

The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.

But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.

I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.

Stories like this about them is why, even though I love the look of the Beretta 92 and I hear they've been improved a lot in recent years, I will never carry one for self defense.

I won't even pretend to deny that Military 9mm is a lot less effective than Military 45 because of the fact they're all FMJ.

One reason I can't use revolvers very well well, and it's a personal reason regarding the issue of personal comfort, is that I'm actually more accurate when I'm firing rapidly. I'm a decent shot slowly, but my groups are actually tighter when I'm firing as fast as I can. Pretty sure I need to work on not jerking the trigger as much ... I found that I'm using the tip of my finger to squeeze it, but if I press the trigger right into where the joint connects I get a lot less jerk, so I've been having good results doing that. Part of the problem is the gun has a kind of awful glock style trigger safety and a heavy pull, but I'm still a good enough shot with it that I like the added safety because I carry with the manual safety off.

That is the personal difference part, really the gun that you are most comfortable with is the best gun.
I always shoot better with revolvers personally.

Actually my favorite range gun, and one I do best with is my nickel plated 6.5 inch barrel Smith and Wesson 29 with wooden grips. A beauty, accurate as hell, I hit 75 feet out with iron sights easily.
Although not really practical for much and expensive to shoot.

Although you could use it for open carry in back country.

[Novus America]

daily reminder the fal wouldve been better then the M14.

Reminder the M-14 has spent longer on US active military service than any other rifle.
Some military units still use them.

Although I am surprised nobody mentioned the G3.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Sure, user error, bad ammo, lack of maintenance/cleaning, bad mags are the problem in most cases. I guess my problem was I used Navy Beretta 9s, and those were awful.

Because the maintenance, ammo and mags are all shit.
Gave me a really bad aversion to semi autos.

Yeah, preference and purpose. In reality most bullets and guns are pretty effective now.

As for military berettas I've heard horror stories, up to and including hearing about them exploding. In my case it's a pretty reliable model (don't want to say because people might track me down ... It's kind of uncommon in my state) firing only Federal 9mm or Blazer, and not only is the gun maintained but I clean and oil my magazines and their springs.

I'll say this ... I've had failures with dirty semi autos that didn't happen when they were cleaned. Usually failure to feed or extract. Some people say "If the gun doesn't work when it's dirty it's not a real gun" and I get that, but a lot of these issues really can be fixed if you just remember to clean it once a week (if you're shooting every week) and in my case that's not a problem because I love doing that.

Lightened slides and return-springs on an exposed barrel... yeah... that could cause probs.

That and the first double-action shot is notoriously shitty 'n gritty. The GI sights are made by the lowest-bidder. And since it's a backup gun with only maybe 2 mags worth of ammo per deployment... yeah... nobody test-firing that or bothering to check for slide-cracks until it blows-up your hand. Start tucking those reload-mags in fun leg-holster locations and then roll and crawl on them, dragging them feed-lips first into the sand... shake it out and say "Still good" because the battalion armorer doesn't want to take a ball-peen hammer to fix all your sad looking bent and dented mags.

To be fair, chances are if someone came back with a service-rifle in the shape they let their sidearms get into would likely resault in some disciplinary measures.

Except the unit truck-drivers... they apparently keep their pistols spotless.

[Diopolis]

As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.

I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).

The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.

But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.

I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.

Stories like this about them is why, even though I love the look of the Beretta 92 and I hear they've been improved a lot in recent years, I will never carry one for self defense.

I have a Beretta 92 clone I use at the range(although I prefer a 1911 for carry) and I've never had an issue with it, even using steel case. Keep it spotlessly clean and don't beat on it.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I've heard the FAL is bad.

Thoughts?

Woah, I've literally never heard that. I'm actually not being sarcastic, I've only heard good things.

What have you heard?

Not much. Just the general "FAL? More like FAIL lmao" stuff.

I dunno man that 1960s battle rifle aesthetic is pretty attractive, I think they might be on to something...

I prefer the M14 and its sexy wood stock. Ooh yeah baby, put some Pledge on that and make it shine!

M14 is a lovely rifle indeed. I always loved wooden stocks/grips/barrels on otherwise 'modern' firearms, I don't know why. The aesthetic is just appealing to me.

daily reminder the fal wouldve been better then the M14.

Fortunately I'm not the military and can buy rifles based solely on how fucking sexy they look.

I'd buy a Garand just so I could hear that sexy *PING* whenever I wanted without having to go to YouTube.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Woah, I've literally never heard that. I'm actually not being sarcastic, I've only heard good things.

What have you heard?

Not much. Just the general "FAL? More like FAIL lmao" stuff.

So pretty much a childish Call of Duty referance?

G3 is a gun if it were made like a Bethesda game. "It just works"

Although this may explain a glut of jammers on the US market:

Not Every FAL is an FN: American enthusiasts have often been shortchanged by rifles that look like FALs but are far from the quality of a true FN. Many outfits and individuals have gotten involved at marrying used (some worn) parts kits from surplus sources with newly made receivers of various qualities. The reality is that most of what is on the U.S. market may look like a FAL but does not function like a true FN FAL. Certainly parts are interchangeable, but building a FAL from new parts or used parts requires expertise. FN used more than 10 different locking shoulder dimensions to achieve the right fit and headspace, most assemblers here use a fraction of that. It is not an easy rifle to assemble: FN’s were built by craftsmen who had numerous parts at their disposal. Much was done by subjective feel, like a custom rifle. If one part did not feel right, it was substituted. In contrast, many of the rifles on the commercial market are a compromise of worn parts, new and used parts, and barrels, many which are worn or of dubious quality. Unless you have fired and owned an FN FAL or a quality made version as made by DSA, you have not truly experienced the classic FAL.

In short, Century Arms parts-kit rebuilds.

[Impaled Nazarene]

Any recommendations for a high capacity 9mm handgun that isn't going to set me back?

[Novus America]

Any recommendations for a high capacity 9mm handgun that isn't going to set me back?

I like the Smith and Wesson M&P 9.
But if you want to go a little cheaper the Ruger SR9 is a good choice.

Although really your best bet is to find a range with rentals and give a few a try.
A lot of it is what feels best for you.

Nearly all the major pistol manufacturers make a good enough quality high capacity 9MM, but each has a slightly different feel.

The M&P I find feels best in my hand, but of course we might have different hand sizes and shapes and all.

[Taihei Tengoku]

The FAL is surprisingly lean for a .308 battle rifle and very well balanced. Shoots softer than you think, too. To think we could've had that over the stinker that was the M14...

[Novus America]

The FAL is surprisingly lean for a .308 battle rifle and very well balanced. Shoots softer than you think, too. To think we could've had that over the stinker that was the M14...

Umm the M-14 is not a “stinker”. It is also easier to manufacture, maintain and service given its fewer, fully interchangeable parts.

The FAL offered few benefits and had a more downsides. The US military compared the two and the F-14 was found better suited for US needs.

And the M-14 is still in use by certain military units and specialties.
It is rugged, reliable, accurate and hits just as hard as the FAL.

[Taihei Tengoku]

The FAL is surprisingly lean for a .308 battle rifle and very well balanced. Shoots softer than you think, too. To think we could've had that over the stinker that was the M14...

Umm the M-14 is not a “stinker”. It is also easier to manufacture, maintain and service given its fewer, fully interchangeable parts.

The FAL offered few benefits and had a more downsides. The US military compared the two and the F-14 was found better suited for US needs.

And the M-14 is still in use by certain military units and specialties.
It is rugged, reliable, accurate and hits just as hard as the FAL.

M-14 was based on the (ultimately false) hopes that Garand machinery could be used to manufacture it and that it wasn't from no European country, nothing more.