Should we clone Jesus?

[Geneviev]

I think this is my favorite thread so far this NS Summer season. A nice blend of the goofy and ridiculous alongside a semi-serious discussion of the science and implications should such a thing actually be do-able.

This may be one of the best threads I've seen.

Well... I have my theories on what Jesus would have to say. Not many positive things, I think.

To be frank and to delve into my own personal opinion, I think he'd say that conservatism these days is more obsessed with military power, wealth, and nationalism than christianity, even if they consider themselves personally in their beliefs to be loyal christians.

Personally, I think if the Bible is accurate, Jesus would probably tell most conservative Christians that they lost his entire message somewhere along the way and forgot the most important bits of Christianity as he intended it.

[New Vetalia]

When the Antichrist comes, there will be no question who or what it is...all baptized Christians, even those lapsed and lost in grave sin will know in their hearts that the enemy has appeared. That Thing, fortunately, has not been inflicted upon our world as of yet.

[Reploid Productions]

I should... but I don't.


.... How has this thread gone this long without anyone pointing out with SCIENCE! we could make Raptor Jesus a thing?

I think this is my favorite thread so far this NS Summer season. A nice blend of the goofy and ridiculous alongside a semi-serious discussion of the science and implications should such a thing actually be do-able.

And a touch of antichrist theorizing, as well as what the hell jesus would say to many modern people, and opens up many questions about cloning.

In all seriousness, what's your take?

Honestly, I'd have to go with the "Physical resemblance would be there (and probably shock the hell out of the variety of Christian that forgets that Christ was born and raised in the middle east!), but divine powers are highly unlikely, and that's not even getting into epigenetic influences." But then I don't believe in the Christian god, so I'm not likely to think that a Jesus clone is going to get divine abilities from something I don't think exists.

Such a clone would probably end up a miserable tool of religious politics in some form or another. On one side you'd have people screaming that he's not the real deal, he's fake, etc etc. On another side you'd have people all too willing to trot him out to go "Look, Jesus supports this!" It would really depend on who was in charge of the cloning project and who would be raising the clone.

... Damn, that could be a really interesting novel prompt. "Church group clones Jesus because <reasons>, Jesus 2.0 has some serious issues trying to reconcile being raised on information about Jesus 1.0 versus the Church's behavior in the modern day. Jesus 2.0 revolts against the modern day outfit on account of that hypocrisy, Church group tries to silence him because Jesus 2.0 poses a threat to the organized faith's structure-"

.... Okay, I wouldn't wish being Jesus 2.0 on anybody. That would probably be a super crappy situation to be in any way you slice it.

[New Vetalia]

Fair.

I wonder, if we had a clones jesus, what he'd say to us during the endtimes...

The human Jesus clone, no idea, as it would be only Jesus' human form, but I know Jesus Himself, whether here or in Heaven would say the same thing as he did two millenia ago when he died for us:

"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"

[Geneviev]

You know what would be really incredible? If the Jesus clone thinks the same way as Jesus but is taught by modern Christians, and then his brain explodes because he doesn't understand the contradictions. Or, even better, if the Jesus clone thinks the same way as Jesus and so Christians everywhere call him a heretic.

[Imperial Esplanade]

You know what would be really incredible? If the Jesus clone thinks the same way as Jesus but is taught by modern Christians, and then his brain explodes because he doesn't understand the contradictions.

That's pretty much what happened with Biblical Jesus, except Jewish rabbis were basically owned by kid Jesus.

[Geneviev]

You know what would be really incredible? If the Jesus clone thinks the same way as Jesus but is taught by modern Christians, and then his brain explodes because he doesn't understand the contradictions. Or, even better, if the Jesus clone thinks the same way as Jesus and so Christians everywhere call him a heretic.

THAT WOULD BE GLORIOUS!
He'd experience how far Christianity has fallen firsthand, no matter the political spectrum.

Yes. Exactly. And then he would say some things like:
"Well no wonder you're declining, look at what you're saying."
"I hate people? I think you missed something."
"I turned water into wine. I don't think you understand the concept of Alcohol Is Allowed."
"I never said the greatest commandment is hate thy neighbour as thy enemy."
"You idiots, I ate with sinners and now you're refusing to let someone enter your church because they insulted you?"

You know, the things Jesus would say now.

[Geneviev]

Yes. Exactly. And then he would say some things like:
"Well no wonder you're declining, look at what you're saying."
"I hate people? I think you missed something."
"I turned water into wine. I don't think you understand the concept of Alcohol Is Allowed."
"I never said the greatest commandment is hate thy neighbour as thy enemy."
"You idiots, I ate with sinners and now you're refusing to let someone enter your church because they insulted you?"

You know, the things Jesus would say now.

We need a comedy of this, tbh.

I'm working on it right now. Not with Jesus in it, but featuring things Jesus said as repeated by a fictional character.

[Napkiraly]

That is where white people were generally believed to have originated from, that's why.

The Indo-Europeans originated there, but in most eyes not all Indo-Europeans are white and not all non-Indo-Europeans are nonwhite.

No, I'm talking about the earliest forerunners of what we'd call scientific racism. They pegged the beginnings of white people to around the Caucasus or somewhere in Central Asia, Blumenbach iirc being the first to use the term Caucasian and doing so because he considered the various groups of the Caucasus to be the most beautiful or something. White people were considered one branch of this race and considered to be not only the most pure of all Caucasian groups but that of mankind itself. Blumenbach believed that overtime you could turn black people into white people, and therefore a return to purity, with the proper environmental and dietary controls.

In American English, partially as a result of considering white people to be the purest Caucasians, led to a more restrictive use away from that in place from the earliest proponents of scientific racism.

[Napkiraly]

No, I'm talking about the earliest forerunners of what we'd call scientific racism. They pegged the beginnings of white people to around the Caucasus or somewhere in Central Asia, Blumenbach iirc being the first to use the term Caucasian and doing so because he considered the various groups of the Caucasus to be the most beautiful or something. White people were considered one branch of this race and considered to be not only the most pure of all Caucasian groups but that of mankind itself. Blumenbach believed that overtime you could turn black people into white people, and therefore a return to purity, with the proper environmental and dietary controls.

Just a note, the black sea deluge hypothesis states that around this time the black sea flooded, with the indo-europeans apparently having started according to most researchers on the matter, and this could have easily influenced the noah's sea flood.
The correlation interests me, maybe the jews are descended from that region?
Pure, unsubstantiated speculation however.
Regardless, I wonder what Jesus would say about immigration, and me adoring persona 5 and final fantasy, if cloned.
I hope he'd be ok with it.

The proto-Hebrews are from the Levant, so yes. But it's a question whether or not it is a collective retelling of a particular event or just the spreading of a story that was adopted by later cultures. Personally, I am prone to the collective retelling since it didn't spread that far outside of the eastern Mediterranean area with the story potentially being introduced into India by later migrations from descendants of whomever experienced whatever happened.

[Kara Koyun]

No, I'm talking about the earliest forerunners of what we'd call scientific racism. They pegged the beginnings of white people to around the Caucasus or somewhere in Central Asia, Blumenbach iirc being the first to use the term Caucasian and doing so because he considered the various groups of the Caucasus to be the most beautiful or something. White people were considered one branch of this race and considered to be not only the most pure of all Caucasian groups but that of mankind itself. Blumenbach believed that overtime you could turn black people into white people, and therefore a return to purity, with the proper environmental and dietary controls.

Just a note, the black sea deluge hypothesis states that around this time the black sea flooded, with the indo-europeans apparently having started according to most researchers on the matter, and this could have easily influenced the noah's sea flood.
The correlation interests me, maybe the jews are descended from that region?
Pure, unsubstantiated speculation however.
Regardless, I wonder what Jesus would say about immigration, and me adoring persona 5 and final fantasy, if cloned.
I hope he'd be ok with it.

Well Jews are Semitic, and not Indo-European. The epic of Gilgamesh wasn't written by Indo-Europeans either. Proto-Indo-European mythology we don't know much about. If it contained any flood stories, they have been lost to time. The earliest Indo-European religious texts we have are the Hindu Vedas, but those are quite far removed from the event you mention. There is a flood story in Hinduism, but as I understand it this is more likely to have been inspired by Sumerian texts then the other way around.

[Greed and Death]

So, with the advent of human cloning technology. Should we clone Jesus? There might be some usable DNA left in one of the relics (holy foreskin?). Thus, we can clone Him and force the second coming. And third, and fourth, why stop at only one


Or even better yet, a Jesus for everyone. Think of it :Your Own Personal Jesus *cue good Depeche Mode song*

In the end, the second coming is very important for various faiths. Why not help it a hand and force the issue

You're literally describing a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode right now.

If Jesus battled people with a Batleth I would so be down for that religion.

[The Free Joy State]

If find people who think that a small portion of Christians is "almost every if not every" Christian. Considering around 57.8% come from Latin America, Sub-Saharan, Africa, MENA, Asia and the Pacific, and removing Australia & NZ we assume that still gives us 50%+, and each of those regions having different perceptions of Jesus, and then counting in the countless number of Europeans, North Americans and Australians & Kiwis that recognise Jesus was not white, we can make a very educated assumption that a majority of Christians realise Jesus was not white.

Most European Christians. Better?

Not really. I'd (as a European Christian) actually argue that many European Christians are less likely to be fundamentalists than some US Christians.

You've apparently had the misfortune to meet some very ignorant Christians who appear, among other things, unnaturally obsessed with race.

Although I've met some ignorant Christians in other regards, I've never actually heard anyone European discuss Jesus' race (it's not generally something that gets brought up), but it seems obvious that he's Middle Eastern.

While there are (god knows I've met plenty) definitely ignorant Christians -- as people of all religions can be ignorant -- who staunchly believe Jesus was white, the earth is flat, and God hates x, y, and z, that's not every Christian.

With regards to the question in the OP (I'm amused by how many people have accused Blaat of being a summer-poster)... Hmm...

It'd be almost worth it for the fallout alone. What if he came back "wrong"? What if Clone Jesus didn't want to sacrifice for the world's sins or be the second coming, but decided that he wanted to open up a bakery in Milton Keynes, or move to the South of France and open a boutique hotel?

Clone Jesus -- assuming he can be cloned and that any of the holy relics are real (which I doubt, because -- blimey, with the number of institutions who've claimed have it -- that'd be one helluva foreskin) -- would be his own unique person, with hopes and dreams and he might not feel like having all those expectations heaped on him.

You could even make an experiment (don't mind me, my degree was psychology): two Clone Jesuses (Jesii?). Raise one in a controlled environment, with the expectation that he will suffer for the world's collective sins and bring in a thousand years of peace, and let the other (the Control Clone Jesus) grow up as he wishes, and see how they turn out.

It's not a bad idea for a thought experiment. But I wouldn't like to see that pressure put on little Clone Jesuses (assuming it's actually Jesus, and not some pig foreskin that was hawked around monastries for five shekels).

[El Hamidah]

It would be a ghola then, not a clone

[Zanera]

He'd either sell holy water or throw Peter Popoff out of his own church.

[Neu Leonstein]

That's not really how it works... Just because two people have the same body doesn't mean they have the same soul, especially the soul of the son of god. If you cloned a man, would his clone be the same individual? Yeah, I don't think so bro.

Yeah... other people have pointed this out already, but most Christians would actually have a rather easy answer to a cloned Jesus, and that was provided at the Council of Chalcedon back in the fifth century. Jesus had two separate natures, one mortal and one divine, in perfect union to form the final output. At best the clone is a copy of the mortal part, so whatever the guy would be, it wouldn't be Jesus Christ proper.

I suppose this would actually be a more difficult thing to deal with for the Monophysites (so Ethiopian, Syriac or Armenian Christians, for example). So maybe there'll be new Ecumenical Councils to deal with it. Wouldn't that be fun!

[Hurdergaryp]

That's not really how it works... Just because two people have the same body doesn't mean they have the same soul, especially the soul of the son of god. If you cloned a man, would his clone be the same individual? Yeah, I don't think so bro.

Yeah... other people have pointed this out already, but most Christians would actually have a rather easy answer to a cloned Jesus, and that was provided at the Council of Chalcedon back in the fifth century. Jesus had two separate natures, one mortal and one divine, in perfect union to form the final output. At best the clone is a copy of the mortal part, so whatever the guy would be, it wouldn't be Jesus Christ proper.

I suppose this would actually be a more difficult thing to deal with for the Monophysites (so Ethiopian, Syriac or Armenian Christians, for example). So maybe there'll be new Ecumenical Councils to deal with it. Wouldn't that be fun!

Oh, it would be the best. Mirth and merriment would fill the hearts and minds of all clergy, followed by everlasting world peace.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

If you cloned Jesus, there's no way to make the clones actually act like Jesus and not just like normal people.

[Hurdergaryp]

If you cloned Jesus, there's no way to make the clones actually act like Jesus and not just like normal people.

Depends on how far you are willing to go.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

If you cloned Jesus, there's no way to make the clones actually act like Jesus and not just like normal people.

Depends on how far you are willing to go.

I don't support brainwashing, FYI

[Hurdergaryp]

Depends on how far you are willing to go.

I don't support brainwashing, FYI

That is such a harsh word. How about a subtle yet inescapable long-term memetic exposure?

[Tokora]

1: That's one way to bring about the Antichrist.

2: I don't think his DNA is still useable for cloning today.

3: Even if we cloned somebody more recent I disagree with it on a moral standpoint because I would consider the clone a person and I strongly oppose using people as science experiments.

[Korhal IVV]

Then the scientists who did this would be condemned as Excommunicaus Traitoris and sentenced to death by the Holy Inquisitoj of the God Emperor of Mankind

Not realistic, in any way. Other than the fact that it is heresy, it is heresy, and that we aren’t sure if the holy relics are actually objects used by Him or just random things placed in by the old government of the Catholic Church back then(which is more corrupt than a Dark Eldar’s harem house). Also, it is heresy.

[Llalta]

We have to find Jesus first.


You might as well clone Shrek

[Hurdergaryp]

We have to find Jesus first.


You might as well clone Shrek

That is a subject for another thread.