EU Article 13 Copyright proposal discussion thread

[Fartsniffage]

And thus they win.

If tech companies comply with their demands they get censorship. If they don't comply the EU gets grounds to fine or even get its ISPs to ban services provided by said tech companies and they get their censorship.

They can't do anything to American companies. Like I said, they just won't comply. Again, though, this is all moot as the courts will most likely strike it down... Again.

...so why are you worried about it?

[The Flutterlands]

They can't do anything to American companies. Like I said, they just won't comply. Again, though, this is all moot as the courts will most likely strike it down... Again.

...so why are you worried about it?

Because the stupidity is astounding and infuriating...

[Proctopeo]

They can't do anything to American companies. Like I said, they just won't comply. Again, though, this is all moot as the courts will most likely strike it down... Again.

...so why are you worried about it?

I assume it's the thought that counts.

[Purpelia]

And thus they win.

If tech companies comply with their demands they get censorship. If they don't comply the EU gets grounds to fine or even get its ISPs to ban services provided by said tech companies and they get their censorship.

They can't do anything to American companies. Like I said, they just won't comply. Again, though, this is all moot as the courts will most likely strike it down... Again.

What they can do is threaten to get European Internet Service Providers, those guys that sell you internet access, to not link you to offending sites. That's the standard form of internet censorship that is already used around the world for various means. And it's a trivially easy thing to do both legally and mechanically.

That's what happens when you hear stories like Turkey banning facebook or Saudi Arabia banning that gaming site, or indeed that talk of Britain banning porn sites. It's just an ISP ban. And whilst there are ways around it those are typically too obscure and complicated for casual users which are the majority of you.

And if you are someone like google making billions off the European market you'll want to comply rather than have that happen to you.

[The Flutterlands]

They can't do anything to American companies. Like I said, they just won't comply. Again, though, this is all moot as the courts will most likely strike it down... Again.

What they can do is threaten to get European Internet Service Providers, those guys that sell you internet access, to not link you to offending sites. That's the standard form of internet censorship that is already used around the world for various means. And it's a trivially easy thing to do both legally and mechanically.
That's what happens when you hear stories like Turkey banning facebook or Saudi Arabia banning that gaming site. It's just an ISP ban.

And if you are someone like google making billions off the European market you'll want to comply rather than have that happen to you.

Spain tried doing this and Google News just gave them the finger and stopped doing services for them. I think this will be the same. The EU doesn't have to ban Tech companies, tech companies can and probably will ban them.

[Purpelia]

What they can do is threaten to get European Internet Service Providers, those guys that sell you internet access, to not link you to offending sites. That's the standard form of internet censorship that is already used around the world for various means. And it's a trivially easy thing to do both legally and mechanically.
That's what happens when you hear stories like Turkey banning facebook or Saudi Arabia banning that gaming site. It's just an ISP ban.

And if you are someone like google making billions off the European market you'll want to comply rather than have that happen to you.

Spain tried doing this and Google News just gave them the finger and stopped doing services for them. I think this will be the same. The EU doesn't have to ban Tech companies, tech companies can and probably will ban them.

And again, if that happens the EU censors get exactly what they want.

They get their controlled media and controlled sanitized internet.

[The Flutterlands]

Spain tried doing this and Google News just gave them the finger and stopped doing services for them. I think this will be the same. The EU doesn't have to ban Tech companies, tech companies can and probably will ban them.

And again, if that happens the EU censors get exactly what they want.

And they will be shooting themselves in the foot, making them a pariah in the digital economy and community.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Man you guys need to chill

[The Flutterlands]

Man you guys need to chill

I'll be happy when shit like this stops.

[Purpelia]

And again, if that happens the EU censors get exactly what they want.

And they will be shooting themselves in the foot, making them a pariah in the digital economy and community.

And what exactly does that mean in real words? What exactly does the EU lose by doing this?
Prestige? Popularity? They are riding the wake of modern SJW politics. No way that's going to happen.

Money? Not a chance. As even if american companies refuse to comply entirely (which is bloody unlikely given the market Europe poses and their more than accommodating behavior toward outright dictatorial nations like China) Europe has a robust enough tech sector that its own businesses will spring up.

Or do you actually think american banks and services are all just going to up and abandon Europe because it started cracking down on facebook and social media. Bloody unlikely.

[Tybra]

So why are they pushing this if it's essentially illrgal? Usually when Courts say these things that is usually the end of it.

I'm honestly not entirely sure. I'm generally a huge supporter of EU institutions but this particular directive i find a bit baffling.

There's a couple of i could guess as to why this is being pushed through. First of all members states have trying to push this directive for a decade. Germany, but also Spain, Greece and Italy have been wanting to legislate this for years (though i'm uncertain about the political dimension, it's been mostly conservative parties that are pushing for it). To do this they need a broad consensus of other member states which takes time and a lot of back and forth play. Most of the CJEU has been relatively recent so adapting to it would mean going back to haggling about, which would take more time and effort and they just couldn't be bothered.

Or it could just be a honest believe that they're protecting their own publishing industries and media from what they see as invasive American tech companies, with the current tensions between the EU and US being an additional push to this legislation.

But those are just guesses, another guess could be that during one EU summit they just got really high and pushed this directive on the agenda.

Regardless it is a sad affair and has slightly damaged my faith in the institutions.

[Eclius]

Found this article online: http://copybuzz.com/copyright/germany-j ... 3-illegal/

It appears that maybe more ppl are advocating against it. I dunno who came up with article 13, but this is preposterous in soo many ways

[Vallermoore]

Even if it gets through people will find ways like VPNs to get around the filters.

[Eclius]

Tbh guys, maybe chill down a bit? Article 13 is essential a reenactment of Orwell's 1984, and due to ethical and legal nature of this (plus Germany's stance), I honestly don't think it'll get a majority vote

[Purpelia]

Tbh guys, maybe chill down a bit? Article 13 is essential a reenactment of Orwell's 1984, and due to ethical and legal nature of this (plus Germany's stance), I honestly don't think it'll get a majority vote

Since when has ethics stood in the way of good oppression? Or legality for that matter?

We are after all talking about the same EU that used the threat of bankruptcy to coerce Greece into doing its bidding and that is currently using punitive measures against its own members for disobeying orders to allow infinite inflowing migration. That's the sort of thing that tells you ethics has gone down the drain long ago.

[Vassenor]

Tbh guys, maybe chill down a bit? Article 13 is essential a reenactment of Orwell's 1984, and due to ethical and legal nature of this (plus Germany's stance), I honestly don't think it'll get a majority vote

Since when has ethics stood in the way of good oppression? Or legality for that matter?

We are after all talking about the same EU that used the threat of bankruptcy to coerce Greece into doing its bidding and that is currently using punitive measures against its own members for disobeying orders to allow infinite inflowing migration. That's the sort of thing that tells you ethics has gone down the drain long ago.

Remember, holding countries to things they agreed to is oppression.

[Purpelia]

Since when has ethics stood in the way of good oppression? Or legality for that matter?

We are after all talking about the same EU that used the threat of bankruptcy to coerce Greece into doing its bidding and that is currently using punitive measures against its own members for disobeying orders to allow infinite inflowing migration. That's the sort of thing that tells you ethics has gone down the drain long ago.

Remember, holding countries to things they agreed to is oppression.

It is if it goes against the democratic will of the people of those countries. Remember, countries are not people. And if a government makes a contract that the people it's supposed to represent disagree with than it has a duty to renegotiate or cancel said contract. Forcing it to stick to it against the will of its people is not good behavior. It's not what you do to friends and allies. It's what you do to imperial subjects.

We do not live in the age of absolute monarchies and dictatorships any more. Democracy trumps continuity of government.

[Valrifell]

Man you guys need to chill

I'll be happy when shit like this stops.

Doubt

[Eclius]

Tbh guys, maybe chill down a bit? Article 13 is essential a reenactment of Orwell's 1984, and due to ethical and legal nature of this (plus Germany's stance), I honestly don't think it'll get a majority vote

Since when has ethics stood in the way of good oppression? Or legality for that matter?

We are after all talking about the same EU that used the threat of bankruptcy to coerce Greece into doing its bidding and that is currently using punitive measures against its own members for disobeying orders to allow infinite inflowing migration. That's the sort of thing that tells you ethics has gone down the drain long ago.

Well, on top of that, six EU nations have expressed concern over this. With Germany saying the uploading filter should be illegal, so yeah, hopefully it won't get a majority vote (and I honestly doubt it'll get a majority vote).

[Proctopeo]

Since when has ethics stood in the way of good oppression? Or legality for that matter?

We are after all talking about the same EU that used the threat of bankruptcy to coerce Greece into doing its bidding and that is currently using punitive measures against its own members for disobeying orders to allow infinite inflowing migration. That's the sort of thing that tells you ethics has gone down the drain long ago.

Well, on top of that, six EU nations have expressed concern over this. With Germany saying the uploading filter should be illegal, so yeah, hopefully it won't get a majority vote (and I honestly doubt it'll get a majority vote).

You know you've done goofed when Germany is objecting.

[Eclius]

Well, on top of that, six EU nations have expressed concern over this. With Germany saying the uploading filter should be illegal, so yeah, hopefully it won't get a majority vote (and I honestly doubt it'll get a majority vote).

You know you've done goofed when Germany is objecting.

So yeah, I mean, Germany being arguably the most influential nation in EU is against it, so maybe let's not worry too much about this?

[The Flutterlands]

Since when has ethics stood in the way of good oppression? Or legality for that matter?

We are after all talking about the same EU that used the threat of bankruptcy to coerce Greece into doing its bidding and that is currently using punitive measures against its own members for disobeying orders to allow infinite inflowing migration. That's the sort of thing that tells you ethics has gone down the drain long ago.

Well, on top of that, six EU nations have expressed concern over this. With Germany saying the uploading filter should be illegal, so yeah, hopefully it won't get a majority vote (and I honestly doubt it'll get a majority vote).

Citation needed

[Eclius]

Well, on top of that, six EU nations have expressed concern over this. With Germany saying the uploading filter should be illegal, so yeah, hopefully it won't get a majority vote (and I honestly doubt it'll get a majority vote).

Citation needed

http://copybuzz.com/copyright/germany-j ... 3-illegal/
I think I posted this earlier

[Eclius]

Here's another one: https://www.communia-association.org/20 ... terprises/

[The Flutterlands]

Citation needed

http://copybuzz.com/copyright/germany-j ... 3-illegal/
I think I posted this earlier

That was months ago. Yet this abomination is still on track to being passed by JLEC and Parliament as the Council already made their stance in support.