Opting Opt of Taxes

[Tobleste]

Should there be a mechanism for opting out of income and property tax?

I argue yes. I think it should be legal to opt out of either by forfeiting suffrage for as long as you opt out (suffrage for state and Federal elections being distinct the U.S., each tax could be opted out separately). I think the major benefit of this is that it would ensure better budgeting by the government, as it could no longer depend on majority approval allowing it to extract limitlessly from the minority.

No. This is ludicrous. Who says forfeiting suffrage is a good enough "price" for opting out of tax? If you don't want to pay tax, you should be therefore banned from using:

1). All public roads and sidewalks;
2). All public health facilities;
3). All publicly paid infrastructure such as airports, public transit, electricity, water.

In short: you don't want to pay your taxes, you get zero of the things taxes have helped paid for.

And if you're the victim of a crime, the police should do nothing. And if the country is attacked, the military shouldn't defend you. And if the government funds research, you should be banned from enjoying the benefits. And...

[The New California Republic]

Should there be a mechanism for opting out of income and property tax?

I don't understand in what circumstances it could be justified to "opt out" of income and property tax. It'd be like opting out of certain laws because they are inconvenient.

I mean, what would the mechanism even be, by which one could opt out of them?

[Petrolheadia]

Should there be a mechanism for opting out of income and property tax?

I don't understand in what circumstances it could be justified to "opt out" of income and property tax. It'd be like opting out of certain laws because they are inconvenient.

I mean, what would the mechanism even be, by which one could opt out of them?

You probably wouldn't be able to enjoy any government-funded benefits, nor any civil rights.

[Nulla Bellum]

Already done. The Federalist is not a libertarian website.

So that is solved, now get a site that driects to the source, not to the source provider's homepage.

The link isn't broken.

[Krasny-Volny]

Should there be a mechanism for opting out of income and property tax?

I argue yes. I think it should be legal to opt out of either by forfeiting suffrage for as long as you opt out (suffrage for state and Federal elections being distinct the U.S., each tax could be opted out separately). I think the major benefit of this is that it would ensure better budgeting by the government, as it could no longer depend on majority approval allowing it to extract limitlessly from the minority.

The US has changed a great deal in the past hundred and fifty years.

Teddy Roosevelt once pointed out that during his boyhood, the US still had no personal income tax. During his boyhood the population was still predominantly rural, the West was still wild, and it was very possible to eck out a living directly on the frontier with minimal contact with your government and minimal contact with other people, period (aside from your neighbors and the circuit doctor).

Then over the course of Roosevelt's lifetime, the West was settled, the borders became more closed as the country consolidated, the population became predominantly urban, the Industrial Age changed the face of the country's economy, and with widespread industrialization came new complexities like trusts, monopolies, and unionization. Hence, the federal government became more wide-reaching, centralized, and complex. With that fact came income tax.

So I would argue that taxes emerged as a price of development.

Unless you all want to return to the days of the Wild West, taxes are a necessary evil.

Opposition to taxes is about as American as antipathy towards big government in general - the revolution, after all, was waged over taxes.

[Petrolheadia]

So that is solved, now get a site that driects to the source, not to the source provider's homepage.

The link isn't broken.

The link to your source's source is.

[Major-Tom]

Enjoy impending federal bankruptcy, then.

[Krasny-Volny]

Should there be a mechanism for opting out of income and property tax?

I argue yes. I think it should be legal to opt out of either by forfeiting suffrage for as long as you opt out (suffrage for state and Federal elections being distinct the U.S., each tax could be opted out separately). I think the major benefit of this is that it would ensure better budgeting by the government, as it could no longer depend on majority approval allowing it to extract limitlessly from the minority.

No. This is ludicrous. Who says forfeiting suffrage is a good enough "price" for opting out of tax? If you don't want to pay tax, you should be therefore banned from using:

1). All public roads and sidewalks;
2). All public health facilities;
3). All publicly paid infrastructure such as airports, public transit, electricity, water.

In short: you don't want to pay your taxes, you get zero of the things taxes have helped paid for.

You don't have to pay taxes if your income is negligible. Regardless of whether you use public roads or infrastructure.

Why should you get to engage in service theft?

Is it service theft if you use public facilities but your income is too negligible to be taxed?

[Nulla Bellum]

The link isn't broken.

The link to your source's source is.

Hmmm.

Nope.


https://thefga.org/news/new-poll-finds- ... farm-bill/

Tried reading my sources before criticizing them?

(Rhetorical question. We both know you didn't read them.)

[The New California Republic]

I don't understand in what circumstances it could be justified to "opt out" of income and property tax. It'd be like opting out of certain laws because they are inconvenient.

I mean, what would the mechanism even be, by which one could opt out of them?

You probably wouldn't be able to enjoy any government-funded benefits, nor any civil rights.

Well, that doesn't sound like a fair trade...

[Genivaria]

Why is it that those who propose this almost always let slip "Also fuck poor people on welfare" ?
The neo-feudalism meme is real oh god!

[Salandriagado]

Kindly link it, because you haven't. The source you've provided does not support your claims.

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You need to demonstrate that such add up to $35,000/year.

[The New California Republic]

Why is it that those who propose this almost always let slip "Also fuck poor people on welfare" ?
The neo-feudalism meme is real oh god!

I mean let's be fair, most people who want to "opt out" of income and property tax are the people who have secret accounts in the Cayman Islands, or own several hotels.

[Salandriagado]

I mean, the alternative is even worse though. Let’s not forget around the turn of the 20th century when parents gave their kids to orphanages because they couldn’t afford to feed them, the orphanages were full to bursting, so there were kids out on the street begging & stealing just to survive.

We didn’t like that, ultimately.

A majority (83%) doesn't like the idea of people getting paid not to work.

And? It's profitable. The government isn't going to stop doing something that's both profitable and beneficial because people who aren't affected and don't understand it whine. And also apply it to your original claim, which is that, and I quote:

Anyone in America working a full time minimum wage job still qualifies for enough income-based welfare benefits to exceed the median income of American citizens

Note "anyone". Not "single mothers with two children".

[The Blaatschapen]

Wait, I cannot vote here anyway.

Not having to pay tax, yes please.

[Nulla Bellum]

Why is it that those who propose this almost always let slip "Also fuck poor people on welfare" ?
The neo-feudalism meme is real oh god!

Because... fuck poor people on welfare? At least the able-bodied who can work but refuse to do so?

[Nulla Bellum]

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You need to demonstrate that such add up to $35,000/year.

最低賃金で働く者は、追加の食料、健康、住宅およびその他の補助金を受け取ることができないことを示す必要があります。

[Genivaria]

Why is it that those who propose this almost always let slip "Also fuck poor people on welfare" ?
The neo-feudalism meme is real oh god!

Because... fuck poor people on welfare? At least the able-bodied who can work but refuse to do so?

And what percentage is that?

[Salandriagado]

You need to demonstrate that such add up to $35,000/year.

最低賃金で働く者は、追加の食料、健康、住宅およびその他の補助金を受け取ることができないことを示す必要があります。

Yeah, no. That's not the claim that we've made. You have specifically claimed that those benefits add up to more than $35,000/year (and also that you think that ability to use google translate to write fucking abysmal Japanese makes you look intelligent, apparently, but that one's clearly wrong). You have provided zero evidence of that, and until you do, it's bullshit.

[Nulla Bellum]

Because... fuck poor people on welfare? At least the able-bodied who can work but refuse to do so?

And what percentage is that?

For SNAP benefits? 62% of them.

[Petrolheadia]

And what percentage is that?

For SNAP benefits? 62% of them.

It's food stamps.

The sort of people who can't afford food aren't the most likely to have a job.

[Salandriagado]

And what percentage is that?

For SNAP benefits? 62% of them.

This is what we call a lie. In particular most SNAP recipients are employed.

[Genivaria]

And what percentage is that?

For SNAP benefits? 62% of them.

I'd love a source for that.

The overwhelming majority of SNAP recipients who can work do so. Among SNAP households with at least one working-age, non-disabled adult, more than half work while receiving SNAP — and more than 80 percent work in the year prior to or the year after receiving SNAP. The rates are even higher for families with children — more than 60 percent work while receiving SNAP, and almost 90 percent work in the prior or subsequent year. (See Figure 1.)[3]

https://www.cbpp.org/research/the-relat ... households

[Nulla Bellum]

最低賃金で働く者は、追加の食料、健康、住宅およびその他の補助金を受け取ることができないことを示す必要があります。

Yeah, no. That's not the claim that we've made. You have specifically claimed that those benefits add up to more than $35,000/year (and also that you think that ability to use google translate to write fucking abysmal Japanese makes you look intelligent, apparently, but that one's clearly wrong). You have provided zero evidence of that, and until you do, it's bullshit.

Ulikuwa na matatizo ya kusoma Kiingereza. Kwa nini Google haiwezi kuunga mkono madai yako?

[Cekoviu]

Yeah, no. That's not the claim that we've made. You have specifically claimed that those benefits add up to more than $35,000/year (and also that you think that ability to use google translate to write fucking abysmal Japanese makes you look intelligent, apparently, but that one's clearly wrong). You have provided zero evidence of that, and until you do, it's bullshit.

Ulikuwa na matatizo ya kusoma Kiingereza. Kwa nini Google haiwezi kuunga mkono madai yako?

It's interesting to me how Swahili looks and sounds quite a bit like Japanese with more ⟨w⟩/⟨l⟩s. I wonder if there was similar phonological development between the two causing this.