*** Official Warning for harassment/flaming ***
This also includes your other post:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=34139392#p34139392
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by Lamoni » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:34 am
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."
Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.
Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:37 am
by Galloism » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:40 am
Nulla Bellum wrote:Galloism wrote:Incidentally, we do care for single mothers more than other people, and there are a few poverty traps. This doesn’t mean “well over median income” for 11k a year, that’s not what the study states.
Besides, there’s certain assumptions made that she can get things like HUD and utility assistance right out the gate, when waiting time for those can be years. A lot of other benefits are for children for expenses she wouldn’t have if she was single (and couldn’t get if she were). For instance, in the few states which offer subsidized childcare, the median American wouldn’t have to pay for that at all - not having kids.
If you want to count things like that as income, then logically, you would have to count that as “income” for stay at home parents that do their own, or single people who don’t have children and don’t have that expense.
You complain about tax credits for the working poor. You know what your 60k a year mother will get? Less for sure. We calculated about 7300 for the working poor mom. The 60k mom gets 4000. For earning 48000 more, she lost 3300 in tax credits.
(Other taxes go up of course, now that she’s middle class)
Yup. Progressive taxation is a bitch.
The point is, most Americans (83%) would prefer that people recieving the food, medical, housing, and utility subsidies at least get a minimum wage job, which would not disqualify them from most assistance.
If the point of welfare assistance is to give someone a chance to improve themselves, it's not all that inconcievable to expect them to get an entry level job. The end goal is to get a job, right?
by West Leas Oros » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:40 am
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.
WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:40 am
Lamoni wrote:
*** Official Warning for harassment/flaming ***
This also includes your other post:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=34139392#p34139392
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:46 am
Galloism wrote:Nulla Bellum wrote:
Yup. Progressive taxation is a bitch.
The point is, most Americans (83%) would prefer that people recieving the food, medical, housing, and utility subsidies at least get a minimum wage job, which would not disqualify them from most assistance.
If the point of welfare assistance is to give someone a chance to improve themselves, it's not all that inconcievable to expect them to get an entry level job. The end goal is to get a job, right?
Generally speaking yes. However, there may be circumstances where the job costs more to maintain than its worth. Think of a single father with three kids, but the only job he can get is working at night, which means he has to hire someone to babysit.
That person who babysits is making at least as much as he is (minimum wage and all), so what have we accomplished?
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:54 am
Berdan wrote:Nulla Bellum wrote:
Nope. A single mother with 2 kids on $11,310 a year still qualifies for federal and state benefits that are worth well over the median income of US citizens paying for the same things out of their own pocket.
I mean, eleven thousand dollars a year isn't much at all to cover the needs of two growing children with only a single parent to look after them.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:00 am
Nulla Bellum wrote:Galloism wrote:Generally speaking yes. However, there may be circumstances where the job costs more to maintain than its worth. Think of a single father with three kids, but the only job he can get is working at night, which means he has to hire someone to babysit.
That person who babysits is making at least as much as he is (minimum wage and all), so what have we accomplished?
A system that rewards sloth. Or at least makes stupid non-lethal.
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:07 am
Galloism wrote:Nulla Bellum wrote:
A system that rewards sloth. Or at least makes stupid non-lethal.
Honestly, we’ve been trying to make stupid non lethal for centuries. Heck, even in some ancient societies had rudimentary building codes along those lines. A parapet on the roof was required in order to prevent people from falling off the roof.
by The South Falls » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:09 am
by Galloism » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:11 am
Nulla Bellum wrote:Galloism wrote:Honestly, we’ve been trying to make stupid non lethal for centuries. Heck, even in some ancient societies had rudimentary building codes along those lines. A parapet on the roof was required in order to prevent people from falling off the roof.
Just in case Darwinism is true....
by West Leas Oros » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:19 am
Nulla Bellum wrote:Lamoni wrote:
*** Official Warning for harassment/flaming ***
This also includes your other post:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=34139392#p34139392
Well, that's one way to reinforce the lalalanotreading responses I should have ignored.
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.
WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:34 am
by Salandriagado » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:34 am
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:36 am
Galloism wrote:Nulla Bellum wrote:
Just in case Darwinism is true....
More along the lines that we do, at least to an extent, value human life. Particularly with children, which is one reason our welfare programs overwhelmingly target children (while young men get a “fuck you”, in general terms anyway).
A lot of people don’t like seeing children begging on the street and at on/off ramps. We don’t like children starving to death or suffering developmental delays due to malnutrition either.
We’re kind of silly like that.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am
Nulla Bellum wrote:Galloism wrote:More along the lines that we do, at least to an extent, value human life. Particularly with children, which is one reason our welfare programs overwhelmingly target children (while young men get a “fuck you”, in general terms anyway).
A lot of people don’t like seeing children begging on the street and at on/off ramps. We don’t like children starving to death or suffering developmental delays due to malnutrition either.
We’re kind of silly like that.
Really silly like that. We err on the side of "have all the kids you want, we'll pay for them."
by West Leas Oros » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.
WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:59 am
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:01 am
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 am
Galloism wrote:Nulla Bellum wrote:
Really silly like that. We err on the side of "have all the kids you want, we'll pay for them."
I mean, the alternative is even worse though. Let’s not forget around the turn of the 20th century when parents gave their kids to orphanages because they couldn’t afford to feed them, the orphanages were full to bursting, so there were kids out on the street begging & stealing just to survive.
We didn’t like that, ultimately.
by Thermodolia » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:11 am
Nulla Bellum wrote:Galloism wrote:I mean, the alternative is even worse though. Let’s not forget around the turn of the 20th century when parents gave their kids to orphanages because they couldn’t afford to feed them, the orphanages were full to bursting, so there were kids out on the street begging & stealing just to survive.
We didn’t like that, ultimately.
A majority (83%) doesn't like the idea of people getting paid not to work.
by Thermodolia » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 am
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:20 am
by Nulla Bellum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:21 am
by Petrolheadia » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:23 am
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