Another day, another burqa ban(in Denmark)

[The South Falls]

Yea, I think we should also ban wedding veils, then.

I unironically agree

I ironically agree, but I can see why you say that. Too many safety issues.

Yea, I think we should also ban wedding veils, then.

And hiolady masks that cover the face.

GET IN JAIL, SANTA! THAT BEARD IS TOO LONG!

Yea, I think we should also ban wedding veils, then.

I'd support that proposal if there were people who walked around in the street wearing a wedding veil 24/7

There are. Ever heard of drunk honeymooners?

[Liriena]

Only someone who can't see colors would speak exclusively in terms of gray, black and white. Therm is secretly a doggo confirmed.

Grrrr bark bark

pets

This changes everything.

[Fahran]

As a general rule, I find government-imposed secularism outside of the political sphere cumbersome and vexing. That said, I do comprehend the aversion many Europeans feel towards the burqa and the niqab. It's a sentiment that has precedent in the Middle East as well. Outside of Saudi Arabia and rural Pakistan/Afghanistan, where the government or feudal warlords make wearing such garments mandatory, these garments are not perceived as socially acceptable attire for a pious Muslim woman. Both garments are at present heavily tied to the Wahhabi/Deobandi sects and other hard-line revivalist movements. This being the case, the people most affected by this ban will be members of Denmark's Pakistani and Afghan emigre community, and generally the more radical among them.

[Shaggtopia]

That you haven't bothered to read: it befuddles me that you are so intensely pro islam when you're a Team Sailor Moon as you so proudly proclaim. Funny how you came up with another strawman by calling it character assassination and you still haven't answered the question. How come you are pro Islam when they on the other hand would destroy you? (I thought I'd put it in simpler terms for you.) (Edited for typos, as I typed this on my phone.)

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank NIA for this post as I haven't laughed so hard in a good long while. But now it's serious time, strawman arguments make up ficticious cartoonish versions of a group of people and more kin to your arguments against Islam than the fact that you made a paragraph post about how one person is a salor moon loving secret Islamist shill with a general vibe of tying to paint your target as a village idiot. I'm sorry that It's hard to take you seriously when you get your ad-hominem attacks and your logical fallacies confused like that. It's even harder to take you seriously when I actually live and work with Muslim people and despite my own tastes in anime they haven't attempted to brutally murder me, it's almost like you're cherry picking the most heinous members of a group to demonise the whole people. Kinda like if I where to go after the pope for bombing abortion clinics, or Protestents for the genocide of indigenous populations knowing full well that the majority of these atrocities are carried out by a very small portion of those groups.

Back to the point, state sponsored fashion police are a very unfunny joke when it involves jail time. Imagine instead that crosses where banned in Denmark, or the Star of David, or nun's cowls. "But those are different!!" Not to an atheist, all of those things are articles of faith and if the faithful can't treat each other with respect and play nice then we might as well ban the lot of it until they can learn to speak and behave like adults and not petulant children.

[Afrique Occidentale]

Both garments are at present heavily tied to the Wahhabi/Deobandi sects and other hard-line revivalist movements.

True, and I for one support the ban. Damn Wahhabist ruining everything.

[Thanatttynia]

Let women wear what they want. I don't agree with the government prescribing what clothes individual citizens can wear. I do, though, understand the distrust of the burqa. It has always seemed odd the way a large part of mainstream feminism has co-opted the burqa as some sort of rad-fem symbol.

It's a patriarchal tool of oppression - used so quite literally in many hardline Muslim states around the world. It saddens me that many Western women, instead of showing solidarity and support to Muslim women or non-Muslim women within Muslim-majority communities who don't want to wear a burqa but feel they have to, instead attempt to repurpose it into something it's very much not.

[Federal Syndicalist States]

As a general rule, I find government-imposed secularism outside of the political sphere cumbersome and vexing. That said, I do comprehend the aversion many Europeans feel towards the burqa and the niqab. It's a sentiment that has precedent in the Middle East as well. Outside of Saudi Arabia and rural Pakistan/Afghanistan, where the government or feudal warlords make wearing such garments mandatory, these garments are not perceived as socially acceptable attire for a pious Muslim woman. Both garments are at present heavily tied to the Wahhabi/Deobandi sects and other hard-line revivalist movements. This being the case, the people most affected by this ban will be members of Denmark's Pakistani and Afghan emigre community, and generally the more radical among them.

(Image)

Al-Amira is Abaya I reckon?

[Fahran]

Al-Amira is Abaya I reckon?

I believe so, yes. If I understood the legislation correctly and nothing was left out in the article, only everyday garments that conceal the face were banned. This would exclude the abaya and the most common garments worn by Muslim women in the Dar as-Salaam.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

People might want to select their friends and strategic allies with greater care then. If you had appealed to the principle of supporting religious liberty or freedom of expression, it would have struck me as a more well-considered argument. Then again, I do not agree with persecuting all Muslims for the actions of the few. And, no, I'm not attributing this argument to you. You could be stating the reasoning behind it.

[Napkiraly]

Tbf, and leaving aside the critics on Vass directly which we can easily excuse as being somewhat deserved given their own posting """style""", he does raise a valid point.
Why is it always the LGBTQXEDGTESDFTEDGR+ who rush first to defend Islam in spite of everything when their very beliefs and ideology would be persecuted like never before if those very same extremists got into power. That unsurprisingly bogger the mind of quite a lot of people.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Both garments are at present heavily tied to the Wahhabi/Deobandi sects and other hard-line revivalist movements.

True, and I for one support the ban. Wahhabist ruining everything.

Let women wear what they want. I don't agree with the government prescribing what clothes individual citizens can wear. I do, though, understand the distrust of the burqa. It has always seemed odd the way a large part of mainstream feminism has co-opted the burqa as some sort of rad-fem symbol.

It's a patriarchal tool of oppression - used so quite literally in many hardline Muslim states around the world. It saddens me that many Western women, instead of showing solidarity and support to Muslim women or non-Muslim women within Muslim-majority communities who don't want to wear a burqa but feel they have to, instead attempt to repurpose it into something it's very much not.

Burqas are not strictly a Wahhabi thing.

[Fahran]

Burqas are not strictly a Wahhabi thing.

Perhaps not, but, in many places, burqa-like garments are not the traditional Islamic garb and are often an outward expression of revivalist sensibilities. There's a reason why you might get a hard look if you wore it outside of places like Pakistan/Afghanistan (where it's often socially discouraged in large urban centers) and Saudi Arabia. There's also a reason that countries like Morocco and Tajikstan are attempting to implement bans as well.

Source.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Burqas are not strictly a Wahhabi thing.

Perhaps not, but, in many places, burqa-like garments are not the traditional Islamic garb and are often an outward expression of revivalist sensibilities. There's a reason why you might get a hard look if you wore it outside of places like Pakistan/Afghanistan (where it's often socially discouraged in large urban centers) and Saudi Arabia. There's also a reason that countries like Morocco and Tajikstan are attempting to implement bans as well.

Source.

>Looks at picture
Lol if the article's gonna talk about burqas, they could've shown one.
Also, burqas shouldn't be banned anywhere, same for niqabs and hijabs.

[Fahran]

>Looks at picture
Lol if the article's gonna talk about burqas, they could've shown one.

The women pictured were wearing more commonly accepted forms of Islamic garb, both in Morocco and throughout the Middle East. I'm merely pointing out that, contrary to claims about cultural heritage and religious necessity, the burqa and niqab have not been understood to be essential in most areas until quite recently and are generally only popular among the revivalists and radicals whose approach to sharia is the equivalent of televangelism in its rigor. We're witnessing a return to medieval Islam at its most confining.

Also, burqas shouldn't be banned anywhere, same for niqabs and hijabs.

Religious liberty and freedom of expression are good arguments to make, but we should be aware of who and what we're arguing over when we discuss these bans. They're not necessarily Islamophobic or even xenophobic, the most common criticisms.

[Kubumba Tribe]

>Looks at picture
Lol if the article's gonna talk about burqas, they could've shown one.

The women pictured were wearing more commonly accepted forms of Islamic garb, both in Morocco and throughout the Middle East. I'm merely pointing out that, contrary to claims about cultural heritage and religious necessity, the burqa and niqab have not been understood to be essential in most areas until quite recently and are generally only popular among the revivalists and radicals whose approach to sharia is the equivalent of televangelism in its rigor. We're witnessing a return to medieval Islam at its most confining.

No, actually there's aHadith about women covering their faces. It's optional, but it happened.
And no, medieval Islam never existed.

[Fahran]

No, actually there's aHadith about women covering their faces. It's optional, but it happened. And no, medieval Islam never existed.

The Quran does not make any specific references to the burqa or niqab, and I’d have to ask which set of hadiths you’re employing to state that it’s essential. As I’ve stated, most Muslims actually have a somewhat negative opinion of such confining garments and some could argue that they do not serve the purpose of modesty well given the attention they attract. And this does nothing to refute my assertion that the burqa in most places is linked to revivalism.

[Kubumba Tribe]

No, actually there's aHadith about women covering their faces. It's optional, but it happened. And no, medieval Islam never existed.

The Quran does not make any specific references to the burqa or niqab, and I’d have to ask which set of hadiths you’re employing to state that it’s essential. As I’ve stated, most Muslims actually have a somewhat negative opinion of such confining garments and some could argue that they do not serve the purpose of modesty well given the attention they attract. And this does nothing to refute my assertion that the burqa in most places is linked to revivalism.

I never said anything about niqabs and burqas being obligatory nor have I said anything about revivalism.

[Proctopeo]

The women pictured were wearing more commonly accepted forms of Islamic garb, both in Morocco and throughout the Middle East. I'm merely pointing out that, contrary to claims about cultural heritage and religious necessity, the burqa and niqab have not been understood to be essential in most areas until quite recently and are generally only popular among the revivalists and radicals whose approach to sharia is the equivalent of televangelism in its rigor. We're witnessing a return to medieval Islam at its most confining.

No, actually there's aHadith about women covering their faces. It's optional, but it happened.
And no, medieval Islam never existed.

A fellow Last Thursdayist, I see. A man of good taste.

[Thermodolia]

>Looks at picture
Lol if the article's gonna talk about burqas, they could've shown one.

The women pictured were wearing more commonly accepted forms of Islamic garb, both in Morocco and throughout the Middle East. I'm merely pointing out that, contrary to claims about cultural heritage and religious necessity, the burqa and niqab have not been understood to be essential in most areas until quite recently and are generally only popular among the revivalists and radicals whose approach to sharia is the equivalent of televangelism in its rigor. We're witnessing a return to medieval Islam at its most confining.

Remember with who you are debating. Kubumba is definitely very much that which I bolded

[Auze]

No, actually there's aHadith about women covering their faces. It's optional, but it happened.
And no, medieval Islam never existed.

A fellow Last Thursdayist, I see. A man of good taste.

I prefer Last Tuesdayism.

[Thermodolia]

A fellow Last Thursdayist, I see. A man of good taste.

I prefer Last Tuesdayism.

Last Saturdayism is best ism

[Ifreann]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

The people who want to drive the Muslims from Europa and re-take the Holy Land are largely the same people as those who want to "cure" anyone suspected of having the gay. So there's nothing surprising about LGBT people speaking out in support of the rights of Muslims.

[Krasny-Volny]

Good. And while there at it they should ban other religious garments from the public sphere

The Sikhs would like a word.

[Thermodolia]

Good. And while there at it they should ban other religious garments from the public sphere

The Sikhs would like a word.

The Sikhs can shove it

[Rockwellshire]

Good. It is NOT connected to Islam. It is a cultural tradition. If they refuse to assimilate then they need to go back to Germany.

[Kubumba Tribe]

No, actually there's aHadith about women covering their faces. It's optional, but it happened.
And no, medieval Islam never existed.

A fellow Last Thursdayist, I see. A man of good taste.

What's this got to do with my post?

The women pictured were wearing more commonly accepted forms of Islamic garb, both in Morocco and throughout the Middle East. I'm merely pointing out that, contrary to claims about cultural heritage and religious necessity, the burqa and niqab have not been understood to be essential in most areas until quite recently and are generally only popular among the revivalists and radicals whose approach to sharia is the equivalent of televangelism in its rigor. We're witnessing a return to medieval Islam at its most confining.

Remember with who you are debating. Kubumba is definitely very much that which I bolded

Unification of masjid and state =/= radical

The Sikhs would like a word.

The Sikhs can shove it

Why are you so against religiousness?

Good. It is NOT connected to Islam.

It is, actually.