MAGAThread XIII: The Summit of Putin

[Tobleste]

Any federal bill that relies on willing cooperation from hostile state governments sucks by definition.

Having said that, the ACA fucked for other reasons, I have probably one of the worse anecdotes about it, and I'm from a state that worshipped the ground Obama spat on.

Lastly, why? What reason does he have to find a compromise? And is there even one?

I think it would have been possible to craft a bipartisan health bill. Maybe I give our Congressmen too much credit. Trump himself sort of wanted to do something like that (he publicly vacillated a few times), but GOP congressional leadership insisted on a Republican-only approach.

The ACA also did have flaws. It's not perfect by any means. The government shouldn't be deliberately sabotaging it, though.

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

[Triassica]

I think it would have been possible to craft a bipartisan health bill. Maybe I give our Congressmen too much credit. Trump himself sort of wanted to do something like that (he publicly vacillated a few times), but GOP congressional leadership insisted on a Republican-only approach.

The ACA also did have flaws. It's not perfect by any means. The government shouldn't be deliberately sabotaging it, though.

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

Yeah, blue states become the equivalent of first world countries while the red states become third world Republic of Gileads...

[West Leas Oros 2]

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

Yeah, blue states become the equivalent of first world countries while the red states become third world Republic of Gileads...

Maybe we should have let the confederates go free. We would have advanced and progressed as a society, and they would eventually collapse under their backward and outdated slave system.

[Petrasylvania]

Yeah, blue states become the equivalent of first world countries while the red states become third world Republic of Gileads...

Maybe we should have let the confederates go free. We would have advanced and progressed as a society, and they would eventually collapse under their backward and outdated slave system.

But then they'd start squirting refugees and illegal immigrants northwards. Oh the irony.

[Triassica]

Yeah, blue states become the equivalent of first world countries while the red states become third world Republic of Gileads...

Maybe we should have let the confederates go free. We would have advanced and progressed as a society, and they would eventually collapse under their backward and outdated slave system.

That's a good idea or maybe we should have punished the south harder than we did. Give them the same treatment we gave the Nazis...

[Luminesa]

I think it would have been possible to craft a bipartisan health bill. Maybe I give our Congressmen too much credit. Trump himself sort of wanted to do something like that (he publicly vacillated a few times), but GOP congressional leadership insisted on a Republican-only approach.

The ACA also did have flaws. It's not perfect by any means. The government shouldn't be deliberately sabotaging it, though.

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

[Triassica]

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

They don't want our help. They call our idea of help anti-American communism or whatever...

[Ism]

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

Well, in terms of national policy, the Republicans don't want help, and won't let the Democrats help themselves. Collaboration at the state level, thus excluding red states, might yield better fruit.

[Freezic Vast]

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

They don't want our help. They call our idea of help anti-American communism or whatever...

Then don't advocate for what is essentially communism.

[Vassenor]

They don't want our help. They call our idea of help anti-American communism or whatever...

Then don't advocate for what is essentially communism.

Easy access to healthcare is communism?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Maybe we should have let the confederates go free. We would have advanced and progressed as a society, and they would eventually collapse under their backward and outdated slave system.

That's a good idea or maybe we should have punished the south harder than we did. Give them the same treatment we gave the Nazis...

Invade Berlin and wait for hitler to commit suicide in his bunker?

[Triassica]

That's a good idea or maybe we should have punished the south harder than we did. Give them the same treatment we gave the Nazis...

Invade Berlin and wait for hitler to commit suicide in his bunker?

No. Actual punishment for the southern traitors than a simple slap on the wrist. Occupy the south longer during the reconstruction era...

[Triassica]

Then don't advocate for what is essentially communism.

Easy access to healthcare is communism?

Don't bother arguing with him...

[Luminesa]

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

Well, in terms of national policy, the Republicans don't want help, and won't let the Democrats help themselves. Collaboration at the state level, thus excluding red states, might yield better fruit.

How about maybe pushing for bipartisanship?

[Luminesa]

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

They don't want our help. They call our idea of help anti-American communism or whatever...

What do you mean "our" help? You voted Trump.

[Sick Jumps]

They don't want our help. They call our idea of help anti-American communism or whatever...

Then don't advocate for what is essentially communism.

An insurance mandate system is probably the most capitalist of the three types of universal healthcare (the other two main types are two-tier and single payer, with the Beveridge model like you see with NHS in the UK being a sub-type of single payer).

[Tobleste]

I don't see how cooperating with republicans helps anything. I give it 20 years before they start leaking info to terrorists to make a sitting US president look bad. It's probably the only thing they haven't done for political advantage.

I don't see why dems can't focus on state level healthcare and let red states keep their lower life expectancy.

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

How about not forcing a healthcare system on them that they'll reject, believe to comprise of death panels and then sabotage anyway?

Republicans don't want cheaper access to healthcare. They want less immigrants, more guns and no abortion.

[Luminesa]

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

How about not forcing a healthcare system on them that they'll reject, believe to comprise of death panels and then sabotage anyway?

Republicans don't want cheaper access to healthcare. They want less immigrants, more guns and no abortion.

Republican politicians anyway, but not Republican voters. Maybe don't stick everyone in a box.

[Sick Jumps]

So let Republicans all die instead of...maybe...trying to help your fellow man, regardless of political affiliation. Wow.

How about not forcing a healthcare system on them that they'll reject, believe to comprise of death panels and then sabotage anyway?

Republicans don't want cheaper access to healthcare. They want less immigrants, more guns and no abortion.

I think the rank and file Republican wants cheaper access to healthcare. No reasonable person wants the "price of bread" to be high.

[Tobleste]

How about not forcing a healthcare system on them that they'll reject, believe to comprise of death panels and then sabotage anyway?

Republicans don't want cheaper access to healthcare. They want less immigrants, more guns and no abortion.

Republican politicians anyway, but not Republican voters. Maybe don't stick everyone in a box.

Republican politicians are politicians because of republican voters. They elect them, support them and keep them in power. They obstruct things like the ACA, support cuts to spending and tax cuts for the rich. It's their own fault that they don't have universal healthcare as in other countries and no one elses. Why should the rest of America suffer for their stubbornness?

[Petrasylvania]

How about not forcing a healthcare system on them that they'll reject, believe to comprise of death panels and then sabotage anyway?

Republicans don't want cheaper access to healthcare. They want less immigrants, more guns and no abortion.

I think the rank and file Republican wants cheaper access to healthcare. No reasonable person wants the "price of bread" to be high.

Unless it's Whole Foods artisan bread.

[Sick Jumps]

North Korea, U.S. spar over nuclear deal at Singapore forum
U.S. pledges nearly $300 million security funding for Southeast Asia

I think the rank and file Republican wants cheaper access to healthcare. No reasonable person wants the "price of bread" to be high.

Unless it's Whole Foods artisan bread.

Farm to table™ certified organic® fair trade whole grain gluten-free bread, now available on Amazon!

[Tobleste]

How about not forcing a healthcare system on them that they'll reject, believe to comprise of death panels and then sabotage anyway?

Republicans don't want cheaper access to healthcare. They want less immigrants, more guns and no abortion.

I think the rank and file Republican wants cheaper access to healthcare. No reasonable person wants the "price of bread" to be high.

I imagine they do but their voting patterns suggest they prioritise other things. I'd like to marry Barbara Palvin but I've never voted on that basis. Mostly because no party has ever offered that to me but still.

[Luminesa]

I think the rank and file Republican wants cheaper access to healthcare. No reasonable person wants the "price of bread" to be high.

I imagine they do but their voting patterns suggest they prioritise other things. I'd like to marry Barbara Palvin but I've never voted on that basis. Mostly because no party has ever offered that to me but still.

Great, made me have to Google this name...

And she's dating Dylan Sprouse. I feel old.

[Kramanica]

Did Republicans do that back in 2013 also?

Ah, literacy.

So the RNC’s numbers are sound. But we’ll also point out some missing context: The rate of increase between 2008 and 2013 was significantly lower than it was between 1999 and 2008.

From 2008 to 2013, premiums rose by an average of 5.8 percent per year. But between 1999 and 2008, premiums rose by an average of 13.2 percent a year -- in other words, twice as fast as premiums rose under Obama.

So, contrary to the tweet’s implication that Obama has presided over runaway health care costs, premiums are actually increasing less quickly than previously.

How much does that context undercut the tweet? That’s a matter of opinion.

Jon Gruber, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor who advised both Obama and then-Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney on health care policy, said that the RNC’s fact "is right, but that is actually good news, not bad news."

Edwin Park, vice president for health policy at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, agreed that it’s a reasonable bit of context. He acknowledged there are "differences of opinion" on why premiums are growing more slowly, including larger economic trends, long-term trends in health care and policies instituted under Obama’s law.

However, Gail Wilensky, who headed Medicare and Medicaid under President George H.W. Bush, cautioned against placing too much weight on the historical trends.

"Premiums rose," she said. "The most relevant point is that Obama and his advisers repeatedly and publicly said premiums would fall by the end of his first term if the ACA was passed. Instead, they rose."

Indeed, we have previously given Obama a Promise Broken for his pledge to "cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

Wilensky added that Obama may ultimately have been lucky in his timing.

"Health care prices has been increasing unusually slowly for the last few years," she said. "How much of that is carry-over from the deep recession is unknown." Whether or not premiums grow more slowly over the long term, she said, will become clearer once the economy recovers more fully and puts upward pressure on prices.

Our ruling

The RNC said "the average family premium has increased by 29% under Obama!" The leading study confirms that rise, which occurred over the course of five years. If you calculate the increases on an annual basis, premiums have risen by about 5.8 percent a year under Obama, which is less than half of the average annual rise during the nine years before Obama took office. The statement is accurate but needs clarification or additional information, so we rate it Mostly True.

Just to be clear, you claim Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation idea. You also claim its only failing because of the states who didn't lick Obama's balls. So you seem to be tacitly admitting you believe the idea from the Heritage Foundation was good.

That about right?