Is America a democracy?

[Zeppy]

No. It has some institutions that get close to being "democratic" in some ways mostly at a local level. But America is mostly an Oligarchy of the rich and for the rich.

Plutocracy.
Either way, people have their agendas on describing democracy, so its all bullshit.

[Zeppy]

The US is a federal constitutional republic, though there are some things (like referendums) that are direct democracy.

Direct democracy has done great in California.
At least, Oregon and Washington are sane with direct democracy.

[Natapoc]

The US is a federal constitutional republic, though there are some things (like referendums) that are direct democracy.

Referendums are close to being democracy but In their current form they are really not. If you want proof try to get something almost everyone agrees with on the ballot and check out all the rules and conditions and money you need...

[Uawc]

America is a Democratic Republic, as such it is a "Democracy"... That is a "Democracy" in the modern sense, and not the Classic Sense... Just as it's also a Republic in the modern sense, but not the classic sense.

Really, this debate is left to the dictionary.

The dictionary is hypocritical and clearly is mistaken.

–noun,plural-cies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Sauce

[Intersystems Alliance]

To be honest, America is pretty much a Banana Republic nowadays.

If this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic is the definition your going by then that's not even slightly how America is run.

Look at "Features of a banana republic"
Sound familiar?

[Panzerjaeger]

America is a Democratic Republic, as such it is a "Democracy"... That is a "Democracy" in the modern sense, and not the Classic Sense... Just as it's also a Republic in the modern sense, but not the classic sense.

Really, this debate is left to the dictionary.

The dictionary is hypocritical and clearly is mistaken.

–noun,plural-cies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Sauce

So it doesn't fit your point of view so it must be wrong?

[Lackadaisical2]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

In my middle school they told me that both America and Canada are democracies.

It all depends what you mean when you say 'democracy' they're both representative democracies.

Representative democracy is not democracy.

yeah, youtube video, very convincing, its just a term, as long as people understand what you're talking about it doesn't matter.

It's extremely ignorant of you to dismiss something just because it's on YouTube,

I was dismissive of it, doesn't mean I did dismiss it out of hand. Its of even poorer form to simply link to a website and not explain your argument.

especially when the video contains real statistics that you can look up yourself.

None of which have any bearing on whether the US is a democracy or not. The only figures presented are the net worth of the representatives, a couple figures on voting and how mcuh campaign contributions there were.

[Zeppy]

The US is a federal constitutional republic, though there are some things (like referendums) that are direct democracy.

Referendums are close to being democracy but In their current form they are really not. If you want proof try to get something almost everyone agrees with on the ballot and check out all the rules and conditions and money you need...

Getting 100,000 signatures is really big obstacle...

[Lackadaisical2]

America is a Democratic Republic, as such it is a "Democracy"... That is a "Democracy" in the modern sense, and not the Classic Sense... Just as it's also a Republic in the modern sense, but not the classic sense.

Really, this debate is left to the dictionary.

The dictionary is hypocritical and clearly is mistaken.

–noun,plural-cies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Sauce

only if you ascribe to a viewpoint where a word cna have but one meaning....

[Uawc]

America is a Democratic Republic, as such it is a "Democracy"... That is a "Democracy" in the modern sense, and not the Classic Sense... Just as it's also a Republic in the modern sense, but not the classic sense.

Really, this debate is left to the dictionary.

The dictionary is hypocritical and clearly is mistaken.

–noun,plural-cies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Sauce

So it doesn't fit your point of view so it must be wrong?

It's wrong because it doesn't fit its own point of view. The US and Canada are not free electoral systems, especially when the only way to get into the government is to have lots and lots of money.

[Zeppy]

It's wrong because it doesn't fit its own point of view. The US and Canada are not free electoral systems, especially when the only way to get into the government is to have lots and lots of money.

No, you can get into the government without money.
The problem is getting support.

[Natapoc]

The US is a federal constitutional republic, though there are some things (like referendums) that are direct democracy.

Referendums are close to being democracy but In their current form they are really not. If you want proof try to get something almost everyone agrees with on the ballot and check out all the rules and conditions and money you need...

Getting 100,000 signatures is really big obstacle...

Getting the signatures is the easy part. It is what comes after that that gets difficult.

[Zeppy]

Getting the signatures is the easy part. It is what comes after that that gets difficult.

Like what?

[Buffett and Colbert]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

I don't recall any sources, textbook or otherwise, saying that the two are mutually exclusive.

[Uawc]

It's wrong because it doesn't fit its own point of view. The US and Canada are not free electoral systems, especially when the only way to get into the government is to have lots and lots of money.

No, you can get into the government without money.
The problem is getting support.

That's what I meant. You cannot make a significant impact without lots of fucking money.

The average person has little to no say in what their government does. If you write them a letter they'll throw it in the garbage bin. This is not democracy.

[Uawc]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

In my middle school they told me that both America and Canada are democracies.

It all depends what you mean when you say 'democracy' they're both representative democracies.

Representative democracy is not democracy.

yeah, youtube video, very convincing, its just a term, as long as people understand what you're talking about it doesn't matter.

It's extremely ignorant of you to dismiss something just because it's on YouTube,

I was dismissive of it, doesn't mean I did dismiss it out of hand. Its of even poorer form to simply link to a website and not explain your argument.

especially when the video contains real statistics that you can look up yourself.

None of which have any bearing on whether the US is a democracy or not. The only figures presented are the net worth of the representatives, a couple figures on voting and how mcuh campaign contributions there were.

Watch the video, then you can tell me whether you're dismissing it out of hand or not.

[Ermarian]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

The republic (res publica, lat., "matter of the public", a term likely popularized by Cicero) is a state in which sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, but today taken to mean a state with an elected head of state serving for a limited term. This is a specific form of democratic government (δημοκρατία / demokratia, "rule of the common people"), a superset of different constitutional forms which have in common that the general public is allowed participation in politics, including some forms which have no representatives and instead work by direct referenda. These latter forms were strongly criticized by the founding fathers for being infeasible and unreliable in a large electorate.

Synopsis: Calling a republic not a democracy is like calling a square not a rectangle.

[Uawc]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

The republic (res publica, lat., "matter of the public", a term likely popularized by Cicero) is a state in which sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, but today taken to mean a state with an elected head of state serving for a limited term. This is a specific form of democratic government (δημοκρατία / demokratia, "rule of the common people"), a superset of different constitutional forms which have in common that the general public is allowed participation in politics, including some forms which have no representatives and instead work by direct referenda. These latter forms were strongly criticized by the founding fathers for being infeasible and unreliable in a large electorate.

Synopsis: Calling a republic not a democracy is like calling a square not a rectangle.

Okay, we've established that America is neither a democracy nor a republic, nor a democratic republic. What the hell is it, then?

I say corporate dictatorship.

[Panzerjaeger]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

The republic (res publica, lat., "matter of the public", a term likely popularized by Cicero) is a state in which sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, but today taken to mean a state with an elected head of state serving for a limited term. This is a specific form of democratic government (δημοκρατία / demokratia, "rule of the common people"), a superset of different constitutional forms which have in common that the general public is allowed participation in politics, including some forms which have no representatives and instead work by direct referenda. These latter forms were strongly criticized by the founding fathers for being infeasible and unreliable in a large electorate.

Synopsis: Calling a republic not a democracy is like calling a square not a rectangle.

Okay, we've established that America is neither a democracy nor a republic, nor a democratic republic. What the hell is it, then?

I say corporate dictatorship.

[Tekania]

I say corporate dictatorship.

That is the direction we're headed.

[Uawc]

I say corporate dictatorship.

That is the direction we're headed.

It's the same in Canada, where Harper just cut taxes for business while keeping working people marginalized and exploited. But did the people have a say in this? I don't think so.

[Uawc]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

The republic (res publica, lat., "matter of the public", a term likely popularized by Cicero) is a state in which sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, but today taken to mean a state with an elected head of state serving for a limited term. This is a specific form of democratic government (δημοκρατία / demokratia, "rule of the common people"), a superset of different constitutional forms which have in common that the general public is allowed participation in politics, including some forms which have no representatives and instead work by direct referenda. These latter forms were strongly criticized by the founding fathers for being infeasible and unreliable in a large electorate.

Synopsis: Calling a republic not a democracy is like calling a square not a rectangle.

Okay, we've established that America is neither a democracy nor a republic, nor a democratic republic. What the hell is it, then?

I say corporate dictatorship.

What the hell else is it? Corporations have bought out the government, so...

[Panzerjaeger]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

The republic (res publica, lat., "matter of the public", a term likely popularized by Cicero) is a state in which sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, but today taken to mean a state with an elected head of state serving for a limited term. This is a specific form of democratic government (δημοκρατία / demokratia, "rule of the common people"), a superset of different constitutional forms which have in common that the general public is allowed participation in politics, including some forms which have no representatives and instead work by direct referenda. These latter forms were strongly criticized by the founding fathers for being infeasible and unreliable in a large electorate.

Synopsis: Calling a republic not a democracy is like calling a square not a rectangle.

Okay, we've established that America is neither a democracy nor a republic, nor a democratic republic. What the hell is it, then?

I say corporate dictatorship.

What the hell else is it? Corporations have bought out the government, so...

It is more of an Oligarchy then it is a dictatorship this is just a perfect example of people using words like fascism, dictators, communism, etc. as a catch all for things they hate.

[Uawc]

Don't they teach this in middle school anymore?


No. The US is a republic.

The republic (res publica, lat., "matter of the public", a term likely popularized by Cicero) is a state in which sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, but today taken to mean a state with an elected head of state serving for a limited term. This is a specific form of democratic government (δημοκρατία / demokratia, "rule of the common people"), a superset of different constitutional forms which have in common that the general public is allowed participation in politics, including some forms which have no representatives and instead work by direct referenda. These latter forms were strongly criticized by the founding fathers for being infeasible and unreliable in a large electorate.

Synopsis: Calling a republic not a democracy is like calling a square not a rectangle.

Okay, we've established that America is neither a democracy nor a republic, nor a democratic republic. What the hell is it, then?

I say corporate dictatorship.

What the hell else is it? Corporations have bought out the government, so...

It is more of an Oligarchy then it is a dictatorship this is just a perfect example of people using words like fascism, dictators, communism, etc. as a catch all for things they hate.

Actually, oligarchy does seem about right.

[Ermarian]

Dictatorship is an extreme and mostly inaccurate word in this case. What the US has is an electorate easily swayed by the media, which are in turn controlled by money. It's a lot more stable than a dictatorship, by causing less resentment.

I suspect that this corporate influence on politics is strengthened by a lack of focus on critical thinking in education. If schools were less anxious to indoctrinate children with American supremacism, anti-socialism (pardon the pun) and religious fervour - all a legacy of the Cold War and the Red Scare, like the "under God" insertion in the pledge of allegiance - then these children would grow up able to consider their own views and those of others more critically, and be less susceptible to advertisement (both of products and political ideals). With voters less patient with demagoguery and more demanding of actual fact-based campaigning, less power would rest with the party with the biggest campaign chest, and politicians might become less vulnerable to lobbyism.

Naturally, nobody with power has much of an interest in making unpopular budget expansions ("OMG! That politician wants to increase the deficit by SPENDING MONEY ON OUR CHILDREN'S EDUMACATION when everyone knows we can simply homeschool them!") that will then force them to be more honest in their campaigning.