Capital Punishment for Abortion? Yes.

[Sahin K]

I support capital punishment for OP.

[The V O I D]

It is one step away from parasitism, by definition:



The fetus is an organism living in another organism and parasitizing by stealing her bodily space, resources, etc. for its own benefit while causing likely permanent bodily changes to the host, causing a risk of death should any complications arise, and using the host as a waste disposal mechanism by pumping her full of its waste.

It is, in function, a parasite. The fact they are of the same species is irrelevant.

-snip-

You really are trying to justify abortion by claiming a fetus is a parasite. Why?

I'm not just calling it parasitic or saying it hinges entirely on the fetus being a parasite. Bodily sovereignty comes into play in a very huge fashion in my argument, in fact. I don't even need the parasite "justification" you claim I'm trying to build, as not a single human being that's born gets to use another born human being's body against their will. The unborn do not get special rights if they are indeed human beings and persons. And if they aren't human beings or persons, they do not get rights to begin with. In either case, the woman's rights win.

[Vassenor]

I agree. Good thing abortion isn't murdering children, then.

Abortion is murdering a child, it is child murder

So what is the malice aforethought involved in abortion?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The numbers of allegedly Westerners who shares the opinions of Taliban mullahs in this thread alarms me.

[The V O I D]

I agree. Good thing abortion isn't murdering children, then.

Abortion is murdering a child, it is child murder

Children are born. Fetuses are not. Thus, abortion is very clearly not child murder.

[Salandriagado]

I agree. Good thing abortion isn't murdering children, then.

Abortion is murdering a child, it is child murder

It's neither murder, nor of a child.

[Lamur]

Abortion Is CHILD MURDER

Your repeated attempts at appealing to emotion have been noted.

Sounds like something a psychopath would say.

[Western-Ukraine]

Instead of trying to answer your vague questions, I will just say that I consider an embryo human enough, so to say, during the phase of organogenesis, around the sixth or seventh week. Organs are reasonably close to the end-product, if you will, in their shape, and the embryo is developing a nervous system. It's a strict limit, yes, but not too much so.

That doesn't really answer anything, really, but whatever. If a fetus isn't viable, and a woman wants to abort, she should be able to and if the fetus dies - that's too bad, but it was an unfortunately necessary thing in the preservation of her bodily sovereignty. If a fetus is viable, remove it from the womb, put it in the ICU and when it is able to move on, put it into adoptive care. Simple, really.

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks and I don't accept abortion after roughly around that point, unless in special circumstances. Viability is meaningless in my argument. However, a woman should be allowed to have a viable fetus removed and taken care of by other people, if she has a good reason for that. That's a not at all about abortion though.

[New Greater Netherlands]

Abortion is murdering a child, it is child murder

Children are born. Fetuses are not. Thus, abortion is very clearly not child murder.

A fetus is a human being

[Petrasylvania]

The numbers of allegedly Westerners who shares the opinions of Taliban mullahs in this thread alarms me.

It's easy to rant about Protecting the Unborn when it's ultimately Somebody Else's Problem.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

That doesn't really answer anything, really, but whatever. If a fetus isn't viable, and a woman wants to abort, she should be able to and if the fetus dies - that's too bad, but it was an unfortunately necessary thing in the preservation of her bodily sovereignty. If a fetus is viable, remove it from the womb, put it in the ICU and when it is able to move on, put it into adoptive care. Simple, really.

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks-

Nobody has survived being born prior to week 21 so far. Nobody.

[Napkiraly]

Yes, the one outlier whose criteria is actually debatable because of heterospecific preferred definitions but is used as an example as a possibility. Not to mention once again that the relationship is closer to that of mutualism or commensalism between the mother and the fetus. Who would have thunk that there are more than one type of symbiotic or symbiotic like relationships other than parasitism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"It's complicated", says the only person of the two of us who's made a definitive yes/no statement about the parasitic nature of a foetus so far

Said outlier is because the children of this jellyfish will actually detach from the parents and obtain nutrients from another organism, whether a jellyfish of the same species something completely different before going back to momma. That case is complicated, fetuses not so much, buckerino.

I also really enjoy how everyone has missed the point of that, regardless if it were to be true or not, it's just fucking stupid to use that terminology considering the negative connotations of parasites. Nobody goes "I want malaria".

[Lamur]

Abortion is murdering a child, it is child murder

So what is the malice aforethought involved in abortion?

The negation that a fetus is not a living being and has no right to exist.

[Vassenor]

That doesn't really answer anything, really, but whatever. If a fetus isn't viable, and a woman wants to abort, she should be able to and if the fetus dies - that's too bad, but it was an unfortunately necessary thing in the preservation of her bodily sovereignty. If a fetus is viable, remove it from the womb, put it in the ICU and when it is able to move on, put it into adoptive care. Simple, really.

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks and I don't accept abortion after roughly around that point, unless in special circumstances. Viability is meaningless in my argument. However, a woman should be allowed to have a viable fetus removed and taken care of by other people, if she has a good reason for that. That's a not at all about abortion though.

It's generally accepted that a fetus isn't viable in any way until around 22 weeks, and generally only has a 50% chance of survival at 24 weeks.

[Salandriagado]

That doesn't really answer anything, really, but whatever. If a fetus isn't viable, and a woman wants to abort, she should be able to and if the fetus dies - that's too bad, but it was an unfortunately necessary thing in the preservation of her bodily sovereignty. If a fetus is viable, remove it from the womb, put it in the ICU and when it is able to move on, put it into adoptive care. Simple, really.

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks and I don't accept abortion after roughly around that point, unless in special circumstances. Viability is meaningless in my argument. However, a woman should be allowed to have a viable fetus removed and taken care of by other people, if she has a good reason for that. That's a not at all about abortion though.

If we're going for technical terminology, it literally is an abortion: "abortion" means "premature ending of pregnancy". C-sections also fall under the definition (and, naturally, comprise the overwhelming majority of late-term abortions by this definition).

[The V O I D]

That doesn't really answer anything, really, but whatever. If a fetus isn't viable, and a woman wants to abort, she should be able to and if the fetus dies - that's too bad, but it was an unfortunately necessary thing in the preservation of her bodily sovereignty. If a fetus is viable, remove it from the womb, put it in the ICU and when it is able to move on, put it into adoptive care. Simple, really.

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks and I don't accept abortion after roughly around that point, unless in special circumstances. Viability is meaningless in my argument. However, a woman should be allowed to have a viable fetus removed and taken care of by other people, if she has a good reason for that. That's a not at all about abortion though.

Abortion is terminating a pregnancy. Removing a viable fetus, putting it in the ICU until it is ready to go into adoptive care and then subsequently putting it into adoptive care - the first part of that is "removing a viable fetus." That's terminating the pregnancy, even if it is late stage.

So yes, it has very much to do with abortion.

[Ifreann]

Adoption does not solve unwanted pregnancy. Abortion does. And it is not murder; it is the woman exacting her right to bodily sovereignty.

Abortion Is CHILD MURDER

No it isn't.

[Hurdergaryp]

flame incoming, get ready to call the fire department.

Pardon?

Recently generated account? Check. Bloggish OP containing a radical statement? Check. NationStates Summer? Check.

[Magheraat]

Most of the women make abortions, because of either socio-economic reasons or because they don't want to "sacrifice their personal lives" to raise a child. It's understandable and so, in my opinion, if children would be taken away from their parents (whatever their parents would want it or not) to the special camps, where they would be raised and educated by the State, then women would have no reason to make abortions.

But even if some women will continue to use this treasoneous practice, they still shouldn't be killed for that, because it would be a highly impractical waste of a human resource. If some woman will commit a crime by having an illegal abortion, she should have her limbs cut off (so she wouldn't be able to, for example, punch her belly to have a miscarriage or resist the medical personnel) and then be connected to the life support system and be forcefully impregnated till her death. That punishment would not only serve an example to all foolish enough to betray their country by having an abortion, but it would provide the State with many future workers and soldiers too.

Abortion should only be allowed, no, should be compulsory, when giving a birth would endanger woman's life or potential child will have some genetic defects.

tl;dr No.

[The V O I D]

So what is the malice aforethought involved in abortion?

The negation that a fetus is not a living being and has no right to exist.

If a fetus is a person/human being: no born human being or person has the right to use another born human being or person's body against their will. Unborn do not get special rights. QED, abortion should be legal since the woman's rights outweigh those of the fetus.

If a fetus is not a person/human being: it has no rights, so it doesn't matter at all. QED, the woman has a right to abortion and can use it if she so wishes because she doesn't desire the pregnancy.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Most of the women make abortions, because of either socio-economic reasons or because they don't want to "sacrifice their personal lives" to raise a child. It's understandable and so, in my opinion, if children would be taken away from their parents (whatever their parents would want it or not) to the special camps, where they would be raised and educated by the State, then women would have no reason to make abortions.

But even if some women will continue to use this treasoneous practice, they still shouldn't be killed for that, because it would be a highly impractical waste of a human resource. If some woman will commit a crime by having an illegal abortion, she should have her limbs cut off (so she wouldn't be able to, for example, punch her belly to have a miscarriage or resist the medical personnel) and then be connected to the life support system and be forcefully impregnated till her death. That punishment would not only serve an example to all foolish enough to betray their country by having an abortion, but it would provide the State with many future workers and soldiers too.

Abortion should be allowed, no, should be compulsory in case if giving a birth would endanger woman's life or potential child will have some genetic defects.

tl;dr No.

Congratulations on hosting opinions that would make Taliban mullahs blush.

[Angea]

I can say i agree 50% with this thread.
You can't simply punish a woman when her life is threatened and abortion is necessary
And what if it was simply an accident? What if she was raped? or other things
So i say abortion should be illegal only when the woman wanted a child in the first place

[Western-Ukraine]

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks and I don't accept abortion after roughly around that point, unless in special circumstances. Viability is meaningless in my argument. However, a woman should be allowed to have a viable fetus removed and taken care of by other people, if she has a good reason for that. That's a not at all about abortion though.

It's generally accepted that a fetus isn't viable in any way until around 22 weeks, and generally only has a 50% chance of survival at 24 weeks.

But that has no bearing on my argument.

Yes, it does. An embryo has no chance of survival at eight weeks and I don't accept abortion after roughly around that point, unless in special circumstances. Viability is meaningless in my argument. However, a woman should be allowed to have a viable fetus removed and taken care of by other people, if she has a good reason for that. That's a not at all about abortion though.

Abortion is terminating a pregnancy. Removing a viable fetus, putting it in the ICU until it is ready to go into adoptive care and then subsequently putting it into adoptive care - the first part of that is "removing a viable fetus." That's terminating the pregnancy, even if it is late stage.

So yes, it has very much to do with abortion.

I wasn't aware of the extended meaning of the term, but I have stated my opinion about it regardless. A viable fetus can be removed if there is a proper reason.

[Alvecia]

"It's complicated", says the only person of the two of us who's made a definitive yes/no statement about the parasitic nature of a foetus so far

Said outlier is because the children of this jellyfish will actually detach from the parents and obtain nutrients from another organism, whether a jellyfish of the same species something completely different before going back to momma. That case is complicated, fetuses not so much, buckerino.

I also really enjoy how everyone has missed the point of that, regardless if it were to be true or not, it's just fucking stupid to use that terminology considering the negative connotations of parasites. Nobody goes "I want malaria".

I'm not in the habit of refering to foetuses and the like as parasites either, but if we're attempting to biologically define them, then negative connotations shouldn't play a part.

[The V O I D]

I can say i agree 50% with this thread.
You can't simply punish a woman when her life is threatened and abortion is necessary
And what if it was simply an accident? What if she was raped? or other things
So i say abortion should be illegal only when the woman wanted a child in the first place

So women aren't allowed to be indecisive or change their minds like organ donors do all the time prior to donating, got it.