Religion and the LGBTQ community.

[The Parkus Empire]

I mean



Do you consider these sorts actual Catholics?

You're talking about Dutch Catholics. Dutch Catholics are taught different beliefs. From the same Wikipedia article:

After 1970 the emphasis on catholic concepts like hell, the devil, sinning, the taboo on divorce and remarrying of widows and catholic traditions like confession, kneeling, the teaching of catechism and having the hostia placed on the tongue by the priest rapidly disappeared and these concepts are nowadays seldom or not at all found within contemporary Dutch Catholicism.

They are Catholic, and clearly consider themselves Catholic. They've just been taught a different version, a version where they are allowed to be open about their doubts without fearing eternal damnation.

That's not actually orthodox by official RCC Catechism. But I don't just mean Dutch Catholics, I mean cultural Catholics in General

[Salandriagado]

I mean



Do you consider these sorts actual Catholics?

Catholic...Atheist?

Yes. Outside of the US, the two are very much not mutually exclusive. Nor is this unique to Catholicism: most Church of England members say they don't believe in god.

[The Parkus Empire]

This guy is more in line with official teaching, and really trumps priests or laity as an authority

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Eijk

[The Parkus Empire]

Catholic...Atheist?

Yes. Outside of the US, the two are very much not mutually exclusive. Nor is this unique to Catholicism: most Church of England members say they don't believe in god.

Of course they're mutually exclusive, what is the Nicene Creed? Catholics have to profess it every Sunday

[The Free Joy State]

You're talking about Dutch Catholics. Dutch Catholics are taught different beliefs. From the same Wikipedia article:



They are Catholic, and clearly consider themselves Catholic. They've just been taught a different version, a version where they are allowed to be open about their doubts without fearing eternal damnation.

That's not actually orthodox by official RCC Catechism. But I don't just mean Dutch Catholics, I mean cultural Catholics in General

The article you quoted was about Dutch Catholics, which is a very specific subset. I can compare the article and your quote:

I mean

Research among self-identified Roman Catholics in the Netherlands in 2007 showed that only 27% could be regarded as theist; 55% as ietsist, deist, or agnostic; and 17% as atheist.[11] In 2015 only 13% of self-identified Dutch Catholics believe in the existence of heaven, 17% in a personal God and fewer than half believe that Jesus was the Son of God or sent by God.[12]

Do you consider these sorts actual Catholics?

Wikipedia said:

Research among self-identified Catholics in the Netherlands, published in 2007, shows that only 27% of the Dutch Catholics can be regarded as a theist, 55% as an ietsist, deist or agnostic and 17% as atheist.[25] In 2015 only 13% of self-identified Dutch Catholics believe in the existence of heaven, 17% in a personal God and fewer than half believe that Jesus was the Son of God or sent by God.[4]

If that wasn't where you found your information, I apologise in advance, but that is the article on religion in the Netherlands.

But what I said still applies. Different Catholics, taught different beliefs (Dutch Catholics are -- apprently -- not taught the catechism) will have different results, and can be equally Catholic, but may have their faithfulness doubted by Catholics who received a were taught a more conservative version of the faith.

Can you provide stats supporting that 17% of general Catholics are atheist and 17% of general (not restricted to the Netherlands) Catholics don't believe in a personal God, and fewer than half of worldwide Catholics believe Christ is the son of God?

[The Parkus Empire]

That's not actually orthodox by official RCC Catechism. But I don't just mean Dutch Catholics, I mean cultural Catholics in General

The article you quoted was about Dutch Catholics, which is a very specific subset. I can compare the article and your quote:

I mean



Do you consider these sorts actual Catholics?

Wikipedia said:

Research among self-identified Catholics in the Netherlands, published in 2007, shows that only 27% of the Dutch Catholics can be regarded as a theist, 55% as an ietsist, deist or agnostic and 17% as atheist.[25] In 2015 only 13% of self-identified Dutch Catholics believe in the existence of heaven, 17% in a personal God and fewer than half believe that Jesus was the Son of God or sent by God.[4]

If that wasn't where you found your information, I apologise in advance, but that is the article on religion in the Netherlands.

But what I said still applies. Different Catholics, taught different beliefs (Dutch Catholics are -- apprently -- not taught the catechism) will have different results, and can be equally Catholic, but may have their faithfulness doubted by Catholics who received a were taught a more conservative version of the faith.

Can you provide stats supporting that 17% of general Catholics are atheist and 17% of general (not restricted to the Netherlands) Catholics don't believe in a personal God, and fewer than half of worldwide Catholics believe Christ is the son of God?

No, but among identifying Catholics who don't go to church or practice, I would think it's common

[Dylar]

That's not actually orthodox by official RCC Catechism. But I don't just mean Dutch Catholics, I mean cultural Catholics in General

The article you quoted was about Dutch Catholics, which is a very specific subset. I can compare the article and your quote:

I mean



Do you consider these sorts actual Catholics?

Wikipedia said:

Research among self-identified Catholics in the Netherlands, published in 2007, shows that only 27% of the Dutch Catholics can be regarded as a theist, 55% as an ietsist, deist or agnostic and 17% as atheist.[25] In 2015 only 13% of self-identified Dutch Catholics believe in the existence of heaven, 17% in a personal God and fewer than half believe that Jesus was the Son of God or sent by God.[4]

If that wasn't where you found your information, I apologise in advance, but that is the article on religion in the Netherlands.

But what I said still applies. Different Catholics, taught different beliefs (Dutch Catholics are -- apprently -- not taught the catechism) will have different results, and can be equally Catholic, but may have their faithfulness doubted by Catholics who received a were taught a more conservative version of the faith.

Can you provide stats supporting that 17% of general Catholics are atheist and 17% of general (not restricted to the Netherlands) Catholics don't believe in a personal God, and fewer than half of worldwide Catholics believe Christ is the son of God?

Not really. If you're not in communion with Rome, then you are not Catholic. Another example would be the Polish-Catholic Church. While it is very similar to the Roman Catholic Church, they are still not in communion with Rome. In fact, while reading up on them it says that they are part of Independent Catholicism

[Bienenhalde]

Yes, because "Political homosexuality" doesn't fucking exist, "Eradicating christianity" is not homosexual policy, it's anti-theistic policy,

The left uses uses supposed sympathy for LGBT people as a pretext for enacting anti-theistic policies.

[San Lumen]

Yes, because "Political homosexuality" doesn't fucking exist, "Eradicating christianity" is not homosexual policy, it's anti-theistic policy,

The left uses uses supposed sympathy for LGBT people as a pretext for enacting anti-theistic policies.

How?

[Alvecia]

Yes, because "Political homosexuality" doesn't fucking exist, "Eradicating christianity" is not homosexual policy, it's anti-theistic policy,

The left uses uses supposed sympathy for LGBT people as a pretext for enacting anti-theistic policies.

Imagine having this much of a persecution complex.

[Vassenor]

Yes, because "Political homosexuality" doesn't fucking exist, "Eradicating christianity" is not homosexual policy, it's anti-theistic policy,

The left uses uses supposed sympathy for LGBT people as a pretext for enacting anti-theistic policies.

And what "anti-theistic policies" would these be?

[The New California Republic]

Yes, because "Political homosexuality" doesn't fucking exist, "Eradicating christianity" is not homosexual policy, it's anti-theistic policy,

The left uses uses supposed sympathy for LGBT people as a pretext for enacting anti-theistic policies.

Specifics and sources please, otherwise people will just default to dismissing that claim out of hand.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Dragging it back to topic, with some degree of determination, I found some interesting statistics by Pew about the acceptance of homosexuality by religion:

>Buddhists: 88% believe it should be accepted; 10% think it shouldn't; 1% said either; the rest don't know
>Catholic: 70% said it should be accepted; 23% said it shouldn't; 4% said either; the rest don't know
>Evangelical Protestants: 36% said it should be accepted; 55% said it shouldn't; 5% said either; the rest don't know
> Hindus: 71% said it should be accepted; 22% said it shouldn't; 5% said either; the rest don't know
> Historically Black Protestant: 55% said it should be accepted; 40% said it shouldn't (eithers' and don't knows are taking too long)
> Jehovah's Witness: 16% said it should be accepted; 76% said it shouldn't
> Jewish: 81% said it should be accepted; 16% said it shouldn't
> Mainline Protestant: 66% said it should be accepted; 21% said it shouldn't
> LDS: 36% said it should be accepted; 57% said it shouldn't
>Muslim: 45% said it should be accepted; 47% said it shouldn't
> Orthodox Christian: 62% said it should be accepted; 32% said it shouldn't
>Unaffiliated religious: 83% said it should be accepted; 12% said it shouldn't

Is anyone surprised by these results? Are there any religions that are more, or less, accepting than people thought?

I personally see it as a good sign that people, and practitioners of religion are becoming more tolerant overall (though I know that people's definition of acceptance varies).

EDIT: Although, the question used by Pew was "Homosexuality should be accepted by society", which gives little wiggle room for weird interpretations.

Results are misleading globally speaking because the poll is only in the US.

[Bienenhalde]

Why else do you think people are trying to send a Christian baker to jail just for refusing to make a custom wedding cake?

[The New California Republic]

The left uses uses supposed sympathy for LGBT people as a pretext for enacting anti-theistic policies.

Why else do you think people are trying to send a Christian baker to jail just for refusing to make a custom wedding cake?

Sorry, but that case doesn't really correlate with that conclusion, there is too much of an imaginative leap from one into the other, and a lot of generalisation at work.

[San Lumen]

Why else do you think people are trying to send a Christian baker to jail just for refusing to make a custom wedding cake?

No one was trying to send him to jail.

[The Free Joy State]

Dragging it back to topic, with some degree of determination, I found some interesting statistics by Pew about the acceptance of homosexuality by religion:

>Buddhists: 88% believe it should be accepted; 10% think it shouldn't; 1% said either; the rest don't know
>Catholic: 70% said it should be accepted; 23% said it shouldn't; 4% said either; the rest don't know
>Evangelical Protestants: 36% said it should be accepted; 55% said it shouldn't; 5% said either; the rest don't know
> Hindus: 71% said it should be accepted; 22% said it shouldn't; 5% said either; the rest don't know
> Historically Black Protestant: 55% said it should be accepted; 40% said it shouldn't (eithers' and don't knows are taking too long)
> Jehovah's Witness: 16% said it should be accepted; 76% said it shouldn't
> Jewish: 81% said it should be accepted; 16% said it shouldn't
> Mainline Protestant: 66% said it should be accepted; 21% said it shouldn't
> LDS: 36% said it should be accepted; 57% said it shouldn't
>Muslim: 45% said it should be accepted; 47% said it shouldn't
> Orthodox Christian: 62% said it should be accepted; 32% said it shouldn't
>Unaffiliated religious: 83% said it should be accepted; 12% said it shouldn't

Is anyone surprised by these results? Are there any religions that are more, or less, accepting than people thought?

I personally see it as a good sign that people, and practitioners of religion are becoming more tolerant overall (though I know that people's definition of acceptance varies).

EDIT: Although, the question used by Pew was "Homosexuality should be accepted by society", which gives little wiggle room for weird interpretations.

Results are misleading globally speaking because the poll is only in the US.

The numbers aren't so much different to Britain (it's on page 17):

Not surprisingly, religious belief is closely linked to attitudes to homosexuality. Those who aren’t religious are the least likely to see it as always or mostly wrong, only 16 per cent do so. This compares to disapproval rates of over a third among Anglicans (40 per cent) and Catholics (35 per cent). The highest disapproval of all is found among non-Christians, six in ten (61 per cent) of whom see homosexuality as always or mostly wrong (although these figures need to be treated with caution due to the small sample sizes involved).

Bearing in mind they didn't break down the types of Anglican (Evangelical, vs. Mainline and so on -- meaning that the 36% acceptance rate of Evangelicals got lumped in with the 66% acceptance rate of Mainline Protestants), and there's only a 5% difference on Catholics, I'd say the figures for Pew are pretty accurate, on the Christian faiths.

[Vassenor]

Why else do you think people are trying to send a Christian baker to jail just for refusing to make a custom wedding cake?

So saying people cannot discriminate in a public accommodation is an attempt to destroy all religion?

[Bienenhalde]

It is also worth noting that long before the modern LGBT movement began and the left began pretending to care about LGBT people, Leftists in the French Revolution and the Soviet Union were already attacking religion. Why should we suppose that the goals of current "progressives" are really that different?

[Dylar]

Why else do you think people are trying to send a Christian baker to jail just for refusing to make a custom wedding cake?

So saying people cannot discriminate in refuse a public accommodation private commission is an attempt to destroy all religion?

FTFY

[San Lumen]

It is also worth noting that long before the modern LGBT movement began and the left began pretending to care about LGBT people, Leftists in the French Revolution and the Soviet Union were already attacking religion. Why should we suppose that the goals of current "progressives" are really that different?

How do you come to the conclusion that wanting LGBT people wanting equal rights is a attempt to destroy religion?

[Internationalist Bastard]

It is also worth noting that long before the modern LGBT movement began and the left began pretending to care about LGBT people, Leftists in the French Revolution and the Soviet Union were already attacking religion. Why should we suppose that the goals of current "progressives" are really that different?

All I want is to keep it out of government

[Khasinkonia]

It is also worth noting that long before the modern LGBT movement began and the left began pretending to care about LGBT people, Leftists in the French Revolution and the Soviet Union were already attacking religion. Why should we suppose that the goals of current "progressives" are really that different?

I’m trans(closeted irl) and bisexual and I’m not only an active member of my church, but the eldest child of the priest. I hold no ill feelings towards religion.

[The New California Republic]

It is also worth noting that long before the modern LGBT movement began and the left began pretending to care about LGBT people, Leftists in the French Revolution and the Soviet Union were already attacking religion. Why should we suppose that the goals of current "progressives" are really that different?

Are you going to acknowledge our criticisms, or just flesh out your ridiculously absurd Leftist-LGBT world domination conspiracy theory some more?

[Bienenhalde]

It is also worth noting that long before the modern LGBT movement began and the left began pretending to care about LGBT people, Leftists in the French Revolution and the Soviet Union were already attacking religion. Why should we suppose that the goals of current "progressives" are really that different?

I’m trans(closeted irl) and bisexual and I’m not only an active member of my church, but the eldest child of the priest. I hold no ill feelings towards religion.

That is alright. I am bisexual too. I just despise left-wing politicians who are trying to use us to advance their own ulterior purposes.