Mocking of the French in WW2

[Baltenstein]

Negative ghost rider. Germany should have been squashed after WW1

hmm. something like this?

All lands to have permanent allied bases at the will of the victorious allies. Foreign policy for all these created states would have been non existent as well.

What a great (read: horrible) idea to implement in a time when political extremist movements were blooming left and right (pun completely intented).

[Thermodolia]

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.

Well this francophile will not stop until England is rightful French clay. And yes I mean just England. The welsh can be left to their sheep, Nord Iron does whatever it does, and in regards to Scotland well the Romans had the right idea; build a wall and let them fucking be.

[Baltenstein]

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.

Well this francophile will not stop until England is rightful French clay. And yes I mean just England. The welsh can be left to their sheep, Nord Iron does whatever it does, and in regards to Scotland well the Romans had the right idea; build a wall and let them fucking be.

You had one job Bonaparte

[Uxupox]

hmm. something like this?

All lands to have permanent allied bases at the will of the victorious allies. Foreign policy for all these created states would have been non existent as well.

What a great (read: horrible) idea to implement in a time when political extremist movements were blooming left and right (pun completely intented).

just stomp em out with gas.

[The East Marches II]

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel. The English were much better tempered and spare them our full fury in that regard. They did a good job during the campaign, bad luck, shitty English support and other things but before they shit the bed. Case Red a book that came out recently details it well.

[The South Falls]

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel. The English were much better tempered and spare them our full fury in that regard. They did a good job during the campaign, bad luck, shitty English support and other things but before they shit the bed. Case Red a book that came out recently details it well.

If they didn't surrender, they saw what happened to Poland, which didn't surrender past 15 September 1939. It might have happened to them. They didn't want more people to die, so they surrendered.

[Thermodolia]

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel. The English were much better tempered and spare them our full fury in that regard. They did a good job during the campaign, bad luck, shitty English support and other things but before they shit the bed. Case Red a book that came out recently details it well.

De Gaul played a large part in making sure that France wasn’t seen as a collaborator

[Baltenstein]

I'm not even sure the whole "cheese eating surrender monkeys" thing dates back as far as World War 2. It would be rather absurd to think that the Anglo-American public, during a time when one European country after the other fell under German occupation in record time, would have specifically singled-out France for mockery over something that affected the rest of the continent as well. Personally, I believe the stereotype doesn't go further back than the 90ies, when the end of the Cold War (and the subsequent decay of the Soviet menace) spawned a broad re-newed interest in WW2 and its legacy.
As such, it's really just one more aspect of the "frenemy" opinion the French and the Anglo-Saxons have of each other, not much different than remarks about silly accents, cuisine, personal hygiene habits etc.

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel.

Was that really a widespread notion during WW2 and its aftermath though? I mean, you had collaborationists in Norway, the Netherlands, Greece, Belgium and Denmark as well. None of these countries lasted longer against German invasion than France (except Norway who I believe lasted for two months before oficially surrendering) and some of them fell in mere days. You don't see any of them getting a snotty treatment in regards to their WW2 performance though.
I mean you could argue that those countries were never held to the same standards due to their small size, but I'd argue that, in the American imagination at least, France was not considered a "great power" playing in the league of Britain and Germany anymore by the 1940ies either.

[Thermodolia]

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel. The English were much better tempered and spare them our full fury in that regard. They did a good job during the campaign, bad luck, shitty English support and other things but before they shit the bed. Case Red a book that came out recently details it well.

If they didn't surrender, they saw what happened to Poland, which didn't surrender past 15 September 1939. It might have happened to them. They didn't want more people to die, so they surrendered.

It wasn’t so much the surrender but the fact that Vichy France was a thing. Nothing would have been said about being a collaborator if Vichy France hadn’t been established

[Thermodolia]

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel.

Was that really a widespread notion during WW2 and its aftermath though? I mean, you had collaborationists in Norway, the Netherlands, Greece, Belgium and Denmark as well. None of this countries lasted longer against German invasion than France (except Norway who I believe lasted for two months before oficially surrendering) and some of them fell in mere days. You don't see any of them getting a snotty treatment in regards to their WW2 performance though.
I mean you could argue that those countries were never held to the same standards due to their small size, but I'd argue that, in the American imagination at least, France was not considered a "great power" playing in the league of Britain and Germany anymore by the 1940ies either.

Norway technically never surrendered. Only the government that the Nazis set up did

[Uxupox]

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel. The English were much better tempered and spare them our full fury in that regard. They did a good job during the campaign, bad luck, shitty English support and other things but before they shit the bed. Case Red a book that came out recently details it well.

If they didn't surrender, they saw what happened to Poland, which didn't surrender past 15 September 1939. It might have happened to them. They didn't want more people to die, so they surrendered.

The original plan was to give back the whole region of Francia(Minus Alsace -Lorraine) back to France once Operation Sealion was underway and have them participate against the Soviet Union but that never did quite happen.

[The East Marches II]

I think it came about because the US wanted to treat France like a collaborationist country for having thrown in the towel.

Was that really a widespread notion during WW2 and its aftermath though? I mean, you had collaborationists in Norway, the Netherlands, Greece, Belgium and Denmark as well. None of this countries lasted longer against German invasion than France (except Norway who I believe lasted for two months before oficially surrendering) and some of them fell in mere days. You don't see any of them getting a snotty treatment in regards to their WW2 performance though.
I mean you could argue that those countries were never held to the same standards due to their small size, but I'd argue that, in the American imagination at least, France was not considered a "great power" playing in the league of Britain and Germany anymore by the 1940ies either.

It was in our top leadership. The idea of their collapse being a meme stuck around for long after that. I agree that it was frankly ridiculous by the end of the war but as Uxpox point out, that was the Kraut plan and the French may have gone along with it during that phase of the war when our perceptions of it were being formed.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

France was beaten down pretty easily, and the legitimate army fought for the Germans most of the war. Russia contributed far more to the allies, especially after they were back stabbed by Hitler. The French Resistance are probably the only ones not to be heavily mocked. Plus, the allies had to send many paratroopers into Franch. Lots of Allied frustration was caused by France’s pathetic loss. Even if they were good, it would of been worse.
While many European nations got taken over by Germany, the only thing gained by the Germans was gold. And while these Europeans had atrocities committed against them, France’s government got off fine. Everyone else hated the Nazis, but the cowardly French in charge bowed down to him with basically no resistance.
The mocking of France’s defeat is probably because they were cowards who saved themselves and let Hitler kill millions more easily. They probably also wanted Germany to invade Britain.
Good job France! Thanks for letting the Axis almost win Europe!

[Thermodolia]

Was that really a widespread notion during WW2 and its aftermath though? I mean, you had collaborationists in Norway, the Netherlands, Greece, Belgium and Denmark as well. None of this countries lasted longer against German invasion than France (except Norway who I believe lasted for two months before oficially surrendering) and some of them fell in mere days. You don't see any of them getting a snotty treatment in regards to their WW2 performance though.
I mean you could argue that those countries were never held to the same standards due to their small size, but I'd argue that, in the American imagination at least, France was not considered a "great power" playing in the league of Britain and Germany anymore by the 1940ies either.

It was in our top leadership. The idea of their collapse being a meme stuck around for long after that. I agree that it was frankly ridiculous by the end of the war but as Uxpox point out, that was the Kraut plan and the French may have gone along with it during that phase of the war when our perceptions of it were being formed.

Well not all of them. A few of the African colonies said fuck that and kept on fighting as the Free French

[Thermodolia]

France was beaten down pretty easily, and the legitimate army fought for the Germans most of the war. Russia contributed far more to the allies, especially after they were back stabbed by Hitler. The French Resistance are probably the only ones not to be heavily mocked. Plus, the allies had to send many paratroopers into Franch. Lots of Allied frustration was caused by France’s pathetic loss. Even if they were good, it would of been worse.
While many European nations got taken over by Germany, the only thing gained by the Germans was gold. And while these Europeans had atrocities committed against them, France’s government got off fine. Everyone else hated the Nazis, but the cowardly French in charge bowed down to him with basically no resistance.
The mocking of France’s defeat is probably because they were cowards who saved themselves and let Hitler kill millions more easily. They probably also wanted Germany to invade Britain.
Good job France! Thanks for letting the Axis almost win Europe!

Um the French didn’t give up with no resistance. They unwisely left parts of the line unguarded and left little troops behind in the rest of France as they thought it would be a repeat of WWI

[The New California Republic]

France was beaten down pretty easily, and the legitimate army fought for the Germans most of the war. Russia contributed far more to the allies, especially after they were back stabbed by Hitler. The French Resistance are probably the only ones not to be heavily mocked. Plus, the allies had to send many paratroopers into Franch. Lots of Allied frustration was caused by France’s pathetic loss. Even if they were good, it would of been worse.
While many European nations got taken over by Germany, the only thing gained by the Germans was gold. And while these Europeans had atrocities committed against them, France’s government got off fine. Everyone else hated the Nazis, but the cowardly French in charge bowed down to him with basically no resistance.
The mocking of France’s defeat is probably because they were cowards who saved themselves and let Hitler kill millions more easily. They probably also wanted Germany to invade Britain.
Good job France! Thanks for letting the Axis almost win Europe!

Um the French didn’t give up with no resistance. They unwisely left parts of the line unguarded and left little troops behind in the rest of France as they thought it would be a repeat of WWI

The French put all of their efforts into the Maginot Line, not remembering the lessons of the Schlieffen Plan during the First World War, i.e. the Germans tend to use Belgium as a side door into France, as well as cutting through the Ardennes.

[Quelsh]

I think France is mocked for their performance in WWII because of the reasons you gave

Superior weapons and extensive preparation by a country that on paper should have beaten their enemies instead falls very quickly

[The New California Republic]

Superior weapons and extensive preparation by a country that on paper should have beaten their enemies instead falls very quickly

French weapons and preparation were far inferior to German weapons and preparation, it was one of the reasons that the Germans trampled all over them.

[Thermodolia]

Um the French didn’t give up with no resistance. They unwisely left parts of the line unguarded and left little troops behind in the rest of France as they thought it would be a repeat of WWI

The French put all of their efforts into the Maginot Line, not remembering the lessons of the Schlieffen Plan during the First World War, i.e. the Germans tend to use Belgium as a side door into France, as well as cutting through the Ardennes.

Exactly hence why they where quickly defeated because they got the majority of their army surrounded at Dunkirk

[Baltenstein]

Um the French didn’t give up with no resistance. They unwisely left parts of the line unguarded and left little troops behind in the rest of France as they thought it would be a repeat of WWI

The French put all of their efforts into the Maginot Line, not remembering the lessons of the Schlieffen Plan during the First World War, i.e. the Germans tend to use Belgium as a side door into France, as well as cutting through the Ardennes.

The Maginot Line was conceived specifically so that the Germans would use Belgium as a side door though. The French were counting on it.
What they didn't expect was German tank columns crossing the Ardennes and to be fair, it was a game that was considered insane by a large chunk of the German leadership as well.

[Thermodolia]

Superior weapons and extensive preparation by a country that on paper should have beaten their enemies instead falls very quickly

French weapons and preparation were far inferior to German weapons and preparation, it was one of the reasons that the Germans trampled all over them.

Though if they had said screw Belgium and went all the way to the sea with the heavy fortifications then WWII would have been a lot different

[The East Marches II]

Superior weapons and extensive preparation by a country that on paper should have beaten their enemies instead falls very quickly

French weapons and preparation were far inferior to German weapons and preparation, it was one of the reasons that the Germans trampled all over them.

In this I have to disagree. The French were far better prepared and equipped. The Germans just used their gear better. They made a gamble and the French gamble did not pay off.

[Luminumbra]

The french made the maginot line, thinking a second war would be like WWI, which shows their not cowardly, but very militarily-inclined mindset. The germans just flew over though.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

The French put all of their efforts into the Maginot Line, not remembering the lessons of the Schlieffen Plan during the First World War, i.e. the Germans tend to use Belgium as a side door into France, as well as cutting through the Ardennes.

The Maginot Line was conceived specifically so that the Germans would use Belgium as a side door though. The French were counting on it.
What they didn't expect was German tank columns crossing the Ardennes and to be fair, it was a game that was considered insane by a large chunk of the German leadership as well.

Actually, France wanted to build it on all sides, but Belgium didn’t allow them. Had they labeled it a fence and garrison, they would of done better.

[Thermodolia]

The french made the maginot line, thinking a second war would be like WWI, which shows their not cowardly, but very militarily-inclined mindset. The germans just flew over though.

The Germans didn’t fly over it but went around it. And they went through the Arden’s which where thought to be impassable