Poor yet Conservative: Is it Rational?

[The Parkus Empire]

All politics is identity politics.

It doesn't have to be, nor should. Look at Ben Shapiro and PragerU for information on this (as my fingers hurt from my last post).

It is. When it's not, it really ceases to be politics. A family deliberating on their budget, for example, is not really politics.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I mean
I don’t think poor conservatives hate themselves, they just believe capitalism helps them the most

[Conserative Morality]

And American liberalism isn't?

It's certainly less so.

Group identy is tied to all politics, and is certainly a major factor in partisanship, but advocating for one's group isn't inherently irrational.

Identity politics is inherently irrational because it doesn't describe policy or action, it describes reasoning.

[The Parkus Empire]

I mean
I don’t think poor conservatives hate themselves, they just believe capitalism helps them the most

I'm an anti-capitalist conservative.

Suddenly? I have always disliked capitalism, I have said so many times. I like Christopher Lasch and Karl Polanyi and Allan Carlson and Hilaire Belloc.

[United Citizens of North America]

Poor people can be more easily brought out of the cycle of poverty by liberal social policies than conservative ones. Universal Healthcare, cheap public transport, UBI, and certain types of welfare help break the cycle of poverty. Besides, liberals generally support a tax plan that includes higher taxes on high-income citizens and closing tax loopholes for companies so the poor do not have to carry the burden of high taxes.

But anyone from any social class can have a political opinion.

[The Parkus Empire]

Poor people can be more easily brought out of the cycle of poverty by liberal social policies than conservative ones. Universal Healthcare, cheap public transport, UBI, and certain types of welfare help break the cycle of poverty. Besides, liberals generally support a tax plan that includes higher taxes on high-income citizens and closing tax loopholes for companies so the poor do not have to carry the burden of high taxes.

But anyone from any social class can have a political opinion.

The problem is that liberals when liberals talk of spreading "wealth" to the poor, they always mean money, never assets.

[Hakons]

And American liberalism isn't?

It's certainly less so.

Group identy is tied to all politics, and is certainly a major factor in partisanship, but advocating for one's group isn't inherently irrational.

Identity politics is inherently irrational because it doesn't describe policy or action, it describes reasoning.

> liberalism focuses less on identy politics

[Internationalist Bastard]

I mean
I don’t think poor conservatives hate themselves, they just believe capitalism helps them the most

I'm an anti-capitalist conservative.

Suddenly? I have always disliked capitalism, I have said so many times. I like Christopher Lasch and Karl Polanyi and Allan Carlson and Hilaire Belloc.

Right then I’m assuming based on previous threads you wanna be a slave

[Conserative Morality]

> liberalism focuses less on identy politics

Despite right-wing memery, yes. American liberalism doesn't have any single identity to rally around. It's inherently syncretic.

[Valrifell]

It would help if property taxes weren't inexplicably linked with local education budgets.

A simple solution would be to privatize the school system, and shift to online education.

Both of these are bad ideas. You end up screwing those without a sustainable or consistent income and those who cannot afford Internet connection or live in areas where that is impossible.

It would help if property taxes weren't inexplicably linked with local education budgets.

Having stable living conditions is more important than education.

Education is a means to advance, to stabilize living conditions.

Also alls I said was that schools shouldn't be linked to local property taxes.

[United Citizens of North America]

Poor people can be more easily brought out of the cycle of poverty by liberal social policies than conservative ones. Universal Healthcare, cheap public transport, UBI, and certain types of welfare help break the cycle of poverty. Besides, liberals generally support a tax plan that includes higher taxes on high-income citizens and closing tax loopholes for companies so the poor do not have to carry the burden of high taxes.

But anyone from any social class can have a political opinion.

The problem is that liberals when liberals talk of spreading "wealth" to the poor, they always mean money, never assets.

Spending money on education and universal healthcare will bring people out of the cycle of poverty, along with UBI.

[Hakons]

I still don't think it's fair to say another person's opinion of politics is irrational. Poor people can rationally be liberal. It's rude to point out people and paint their ideology as irrational when one doesn't even know why that person possesses that ideology.

If one's opinion on politics is "The blacks and the Jews are stealing all the jobs and soaking up the welfare" as they collect disability, could their opinion be irrational?

Yes, but I was referring to general political ideologies, like conservatism or liberalism. It is obviously false to assert such a wide swath of people are irrational simply because they have different politics.

[Hakons]

> liberalism focuses less on identy politics

Despite right-wing memery, yes. American liberalism doesn't have any single identity to rally around. It's inherently syncretic.

I'm having a really hard time seeing Black Lives Matter, affirmative action, LGBT activism, ect.... as not being heavily involved in identy politics. American liberalism is awash in identy politics, and so is American political culture in general.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm having a really hard time seeing Black Lives Matter, affirmative action, LGBT activism, ect.... as not being heavily involved in identy politics.

... you're having a hard time seeing "Everyone should be treated equally" as not identity politics...?

What?

WHAT?

[Uxupox]

Despite right-wing memery, yes. American liberalism doesn't have any single identity to rally around. It's inherently syncretic.

I'm having a really hard time seeing Black Lives Matter, affirmative action, LGBT activism, ect.... as not being heavily involved in identy politics. American liberalism is awash in identy politics, and so is American political culture in general.

i hate blm for thinking they can represent me.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm having a really hard time seeing Black Lives Matter, affirmative action, LGBT activism, ect.... as not being heavily involved in identy politics. American liberalism is awash in identy politics, and so is American political culture in general.

i hate blm for thinking they can represent me.

This may be hard to parse, but the point of "BLM" is combating racism in police interactions, not representing you.

[Conservative Feminism]

It's rational if you believe that what is in society's best interest is a more immediate priority than what is in your own best interest. It's probably not rational if it is directly for self-interest.

[Uxupox]

i hate blm for thinking they can represent me.

This may be hard to parse, but the point of "BLM" is combating racism in police interactions, not representing you.

Say that to the local caudillo.

[Valkalan]

Both of these are bad ideas. You end up screwing those without a sustainable or consistent income and those who cannot afford Internet connection or live in areas where that is impossible..

It is irresponsible to bring children into the world that you are not prepared to care for. If you can't afford $69.99 per month for the cheapest internet connection, then frankly you should not be having children in the first place.

[Conserative Morality]

This may be hard to parse, but the point of "BLM" is combating racism in police interactions, not representing you.

Say that to the local caudillo.

This is America. We don't have caudillos.

[Uxupox]

Say that to the local caudillo.

This is America. We don't have caudillos.

Caudillos are leaders in the Latin community.

[Valkalan]

I still don't think it's fair to say another person's opinion of politics is irrational. Poor people can rationally be liberal. It's rude to point out people and paint their ideology as irrational when one doesn't even know why that person possesses that ideology.

Would you say that someone who believes that 2+2=5 is rational? Absolutely not, especially considering the overwhelming evidence that 2+2=4. Not all beliefs are equal. Not all beliefs are based on facts. When unfounded beliefs interfere with my success, and drain my wallet with taxes and inflation, and fail to deliver results, I have no incentive whatsoever to respect those beliefs. Expecting me to smile and accept self-immolation is quite rude.

[Xmara]

I live in a state full of poor conservatives. It makes perfect sense to me.

[Hakons]

I'm having a really hard time seeing Black Lives Matter, affirmative action, LGBT activism, ect.... as not being heavily involved in identy politics.

... you're having a hard time seeing "Everyone should be treated equally" as not identity politics...?

What?

WHAT?

You know full well that those movements aren't just about equality, but also improving the status of the group and hunting down those that disagree with them. BLM is a textbook identy politics group, and this is plain to see.

[Conserative Morality]

You know full well that those movements aren't just about equality, but also improving the status of the group and hunting down those that disagree with them. BLM is a textbook identy politics group, and this is plain to see.

No, not really.