2018 FIFA World Cup Megathread

[Shofercia]

These days? Sports and politics have been intertwined since at least 1936.

And Domagoj Vida's post-match celebrations following Croatia's win on penalties hasn't helped much.

Russians may now find themselves in the slightly awkward position of perhaps preferring England over a bunch of Slavs this coming Wednesday.

But now that we've acknowledged Vida's behaviour - since it was bound to be mentioned sooner or later I thought it would be best to bring it up in a controlled context - I'd be grateful if this didn't suddenly devolve into a thread about the Donbass; there are other places to engage in a detailed discussion of the rights and wrongs of the current politics of the latter.

Wasn't Vida the moron who celebrated the goal that he was set up for, by getting a yellow card for taking his shirt off? The parallels to Ukraine are rather hilarious. Anyways, one idiot doesn't ruin an entire team, but when he's booed every time his club plays in an area with Russian fans, he probably shouldn't whine about racism. Vida dug himself a hole with his idiocy, but for those who watched him, it's not really a surprise. If the Russian fans were like Vida, we'd be chanting "Glory to Catholic Serbia!" He's playing in a Turkish league, and sometimes Russian Tourists in Turkey, (yep, that's back,) go to the games, so it'd be interesting to see if he ends up without a team.

As for who I'm going to root - don't really care. England's fans were the only ones to get caught being hooligans, and Croatia beat us, so not even sure if I'll watch that semifinal. Vive La France!

Edit: I should point out that another reason for not watching that SF, is that it falls on a weekday, and I'd have to end up rearranging my work schedule a bit. I'm going to watch the final, since that's on a weekend, no matter who makes it.

[Risottia]

Most of us are managing just fine.

We essentially ignore Sharania for the most part (which is easy enough since he's only interested in grandstanding rather than having a conversation), we forgive Shofercia his occasional handwringing defensiveness about Russia since he is Russian, and Pope Joan's recent tiresome little snit isn't worth getting worked up about.

Most of the time, the rest of us just talk about football.

..much as we indulge kindly at Arch's occasional meanderings into the intricacies and political implications in Medieval England regarding the delicate offside rule in futte boll.

Not that there were much rules..

By some accounts, in some such events any means could be used to move the ball towards the goal, as long as it did not lead to manslaughter or murder.

Bah humbug. I was disqualified once because, in order to get the ball past the Avon, I chose to avoid the bridge and just propelled it with a culverin.

[DesAnges]

..much as we indulge kindly at Arch's occasional meanderings into the intricacies and political implications in Medieval England regarding the delicate offside rule in futte boll.

Not that there were much rules..

By some accounts, in some such events any means could be used to move the ball towards the goal, as long as it did not lead to manslaughter or murder.

Bah humbug. I was disqualified once because, in order to get the ball past the Avon, I chose to avoid the bridge and just propelled it with a culverin.

That was your fault for ignoring Bristol Bridge. Had you taken the Netham route you would have been fine.

[Soviet-mongol]

(I challenged anyone on NSG to find a single instance of Crimean Tatars being persecuted primarily on race/ethnicity - thus far it's been crickets,)

What about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportati ... ean_Tatars

[Soviet-mongol]

Wasn't Vida the moron who celebrated the goal that he was set up for, by getting a yellow card for taking his shirt off? The parallels to Ukraine are rather hilarious. Anyways, one idiot doesn't ruin an entire team, but when he's booed every time his club plays in an area with Russian fans, he probably shouldn't whine about racism. Vida dug himself a hole with his idiocy, but for those who watched him, it's not really a surprise. If the Russian fans were like Vida, we'd be chanting "Glory to Catholic Serbia!" He's playing in a Turkish league, and sometimes Russian Tourists in Turkey, (yep, that's back,) go to the games, so it'd be interesting to see if he ends up without a team.

As for who I'm going to root - don't really care. England's fans were the only ones to get caught being hooligans, and Croatia beat us, so not even sure if I'll watch that semifinal. Vive La France!

Edit: I should point out that another reason for not watching that SF, is that it falls on a weekday, and I'd have to end up rearranging my work schedule a bit. I'm going to watch the final, since that's on a weekend, no matter who makes it.

As for the bolded part good one. Not that I condones his action but it seems he is not aware of the controversy sourounding the Slava Ukrayini chant. The guy was playing for years for Dynamo Kyev and most likely he saw Ukrainians do the whole time and though it was more a banther. Secondly, considering he said it in the middle of conversation with another Ukrainian guy it is stupid to claim it was an attack on Russian nation. The guy is a football player not a politician.

[Shofercia]

(I challenged anyone on NSG to find a single instance of Crimean Tatars being persecuted primarily on race/ethnicity - thus far it's been crickets,)

What about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportati ... ean_Tatars

I was referring to the post-2014 era, not to what Beria did. I'm not a fan of Beria, to put it mildly, but Beria's way off topic for this thread. Here's a link to a post where I quote an actual Crimean Tatar describing the situation, including what happened with the deportation. Just scroll down to the spoiler, open spoiler, and enjoy: viewtopic.php?p=34257053#p34257053

Wasn't Vida the moron who celebrated the goal that he was set up for, by getting a yellow card for taking his shirt off? The parallels to Ukraine are rather hilarious. Anyways, one idiot doesn't ruin an entire team, but when he's booed every time his club plays in an area with Russian fans, he probably shouldn't whine about racism. Vida dug himself a hole with his idiocy, but for those who watched him, it's not really a surprise. If the Russian fans were like Vida, we'd be chanting "Glory to Catholic Serbia!" He's playing in a Turkish league, and sometimes Russian Tourists in Turkey, (yep, that's back,) go to the games, so it'd be interesting to see if he ends up without a team.

As for who I'm going to root - don't really care. England's fans were the only ones to get caught being hooligans, and Croatia beat us, so not even sure if I'll watch that semifinal. Vive La France!

Edit: I should point out that another reason for not watching that SF, is that it falls on a weekday, and I'd have to end up rearranging my work schedule a bit. I'm going to watch the final, since that's on a weekend, no matter who makes it.

As for the bolded part good one. Not that I condones his action but it seems he is not aware of the controversy sourounding the Slava Ukrayini chant. The guy was playing for years for Dynamo Kyev and most likely he saw Ukrainians do the whole time and though it was more a banther. Secondly, considering he said it in the middle of conversation with another Ukrainian guy it is stupid to claim it was an attack on Russian nation. The guy is a football player not a politician.

Not saying it was an attack on the Russian Nation, and if it was - that was laughable. However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed. His team was still in the World Cup, when he made the comment. It was an insult to Russian fans, that sounded a lot like: "we beat you for what your Government did in Ukraine" so with that said, why should Russian fans pay to attend games where the team that has him is playing, or watch those games, or contribute financially to those who're paying him to play? If someone says "fuck you, now please buy my product" - I won't view that as an attack, but I also won't buy his product, even if it is the least expensive and best product on the market.

[Bombadil]

However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed.

FIFA are laughably hypocritical with that statement. That's like stabbing someone and then going 'come on guys, let's focus on what's important, the health of this poor chap'..

[Fartsniffage]

However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed.

FIFA are laughably hypocritical with that statement. That's like stabbing someone and then going 'come on guys, let's focus on what's important, the health of this poor chap'..

But who cares? Because England in in the semi-final of a World Cup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk48xRzuNvA

[Soviet-mongol]

I was referring to the post-2014 era, not to what Beria did. I'm not a fan of Beria, to put it mildly, but Beria's way off topic for this thread. Here's a link to a post where I quote an actual Crimean Tatar describing the situation, including what happened with the deportation. Just scroll down to the spoiler, open spoiler, and enjoy: viewtopic.php?p=34257053#p34257053

I really don`t see why are you so upset that you need to justify the action from the past including Beria. It is not that the Crimean Tatars never did anything wrong. They are making money of slave trade from Slavs and the Russians were more than tolerant once they conquered them.

Not saying it was an attack on the Russian Nation, and if it was - that was laughable. However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed. His team was still in the World Cup, when he made the comment. It was an insult to Russian fans, that sounded a lot like: "we beat you for what your Government did in Ukraine" so with that said, why should Russian fans pay to attend games where the team that has him is playing, or watch those games, or contribute financially to those who're paying him to play? If someone says "fuck you, now please buy my product" - I won't view that as an attack, but I also won't buy his product, even if it is the least expensive and best product on the market.

You have a point it is just that you are implying that Russians make up a significant part of Besiktas fans. It is laughable. You even implied that Russians will make racist incidents on Besiktas games. You dont think this will upset the Turks?


Now, to help you yeah it might deteriate the relation between the Croatian NT and Russian fans which is bad. I just hope the average Russian wont use it personally. He left Dynamo even before the Maidan chaos where the chant was considered neutral.

[Shofercia]

I was referring to the post-2014 era, not to what Beria did. I'm not a fan of Beria, to put it mildly, but Beria's way off topic for this thread. Here's a link to a post where I quote an actual Crimean Tatar describing the situation, including what happened with the deportation. Just scroll down to the spoiler, open spoiler, and enjoy: viewtopic.php?p=34257053#p34257053

I really don`t see why are you so upset that you need to justify the action from the past including Beria. It is not that the Crimean Tatars never did anything wrong. They are making money of slave trade from Slavs and the Russians were more than tolerant once they conquered them.

I'm not trying to justify his actions. Reread that post.

Not saying it was an attack on the Russian Nation, and if it was - that was laughable. However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed. His team was still in the World Cup, when he made the comment. It was an insult to Russian fans, that sounded a lot like: "we beat you for what your Government did in Ukraine" so with that said, why should Russian fans pay to attend games where the team that has him is playing, or watch those games, or contribute financially to those who're paying him to play? If someone says "fuck you, now please buy my product" - I won't view that as an attack, but I also won't buy his product, even if it is the least expensive and best product on the market.

You have a point it is just that you are implying that Russians make up a significant part of Besiktas fans. It is laughable. You even implied that Russians will make racist incidents on Besiktas games. You dont think this will upset the Turks?

Now, to help you yeah it might deteriate the relation between the Croatian NT and Russian fans which is bad. I just hope the average Russian wont use it personally. He left Dynamo even before the Maidan chaos where the chant was considered neutral.

I didn't imply racist chants. I said that if the Russians were like Vida, we'd troll Vida by calling his team Catholic Serbia. Thankfully, we're better, and aren't going to sink to his level. Also, booing a specific player for his actions is not racist in any way, shape, or form. Nor am I saying that the Russians make up a large portion of Besiktas fans. Reread my post, I think you misread it.

However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed.

FIFA are laughably hypocritical with that statement. That's like stabbing someone and then going 'come on guys, let's focus on what's important, the health of this poor chap'..

FIFA was very apolitical with the bribe taking

[United City States of Oceania]

this reaction was too good
https://twitter.com/IanWright0/status/1015617257756614657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[Infected Mushroom]

However, FIFA has been saying, from the get go, that politics and sports should not be mixed.

FIFA are laughably hypocritical with that statement. That's like stabbing someone and then going 'come on guys, let's focus on what's important, the health of this poor chap'..

the politics are important...

had Russia made it to the Semi-Finals it would greatly improve their international image and soft negotiating power at future summits; I wouldn't be surprised if their next G7 bid unofficially hung on that Croatia match...

there's a reason why teams try so hard and countries put so much money into fielding these forces; there's more than a soccer ball going on in any given match, its all international chess and calculations

[Bombadil]

FIFA are laughably hypocritical with that statement. That's like stabbing someone and then going 'come on guys, let's focus on what's important, the health of this poor chap'..

the politics are important...

had Russia made it to the Semi-Finals it would greatly improve their international image and soft negotiating power at future summits; I wouldn't be surprised if their next G7 bid unofficially hung on that Croatia match...

there's a reason why teams try so hard and countries put so much money into fielding these forces; there's more than a soccer ball going on in any given match, its all international chess and calculations

I can imagine Putin scheming in his throne room with his advisors.. "Dammit Sergei your plan to host the G7 being dependent on Russia making the semi-finals was foiled by those crafty Croations, you've failed me for the last time Sergei.. bring out the ill-tempered bass.."

[Risottia]

Bah humbug. I was disqualified once because, in order to get the ball past the Avon, I chose to avoid the bridge and just propelled it with a culverin.

That was your fault for ignoring Bristol Bridge. Had you taken the Netham route you would have been fine.

The other team was sitting on the bridge.

[The Blaatschapen]

The last time that England was in world cup semi final, it's current opponent did not even exist.

[Yaana Noore]

The last time that England was in world cup semi final, it's current opponent did not even exist.

And England's last semi final opponents no longer exist today. Spooky.

[The Archregimancy]

Pedant's corner....

The last time that England was in world cup semi final, it's current opponent did not even exist.

Not technically correct.

Croatia wasn't an independent nation state in 1990, and wasn't a member of FIFA until after independence in 1991, but the Socialist Republic of Croatia was a constituent component of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and the constitution of the modern Republic of Croatia explicitly recognises the modern nation state as being the direct lineal legal descendant of its federated predecessor.

The last time that England was in world cup semi final, it's current opponent did not even exist.

And England's last semi final opponents no longer exist today. Spooky.

Also not technically correct.

There was never a country called 'West Germany'. While the country England played in '66 was commonly known as 'West Germany', and is referred as such in most histories of the World Cup, it was officially the Federal Republic of Germany, or Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Constitutionally, and under international law, the current German state is merely the enlarged continuation of the Federal Republic of Germany rather than a new state; the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany, ceased to exist, but the Federal Republic of Germany continued to exist. Which, of course, is one of the reasons why modern Germany can claim the World Cup titles won by pre-unification Germany; legally, modern 'Germany' and pre-unification 'West Germany' are the same state.

[The Blaatschapen]

Pedant's corner....

The last time that England was in world cup semi final, it's current opponent did not even exist.

Not technically correct.

Croatia wasn't an independent nation state in 1990, and wasn't a member of FIFA until after independence in 1991, but the Socialist Republic of Croatia was a constituent component of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and the constitution of the modern Republic of Croatia explicitly recognises the modern nation state as being the direct lineal legal descendant of its federated predecessor.

And England's last semi final opponents no longer exist today. Spooky.

Also not technically correct.

There was never a country called 'West Germany'. While the country England played in '66 was commonly known as 'West Germany', and is referred as such in most histories of the World Cup, it was officially the Federal Republic of Germany, or Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Constitutionally, and under international law, the current German state is merely the enlarged continuation of the Federal Republic of Germany rather than a new state; the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany, ceased to exist, but the Federal Republic of Germany continued to exist. Which, of course, is one of the reasons why modern Germany can claim the World Cup titles won by pre-unification Germany; legally, modern 'Germany' and pre-unification 'West Germany' are the same state.

It wasn't a fifa country, and fifa acknowledges Serbia as the descendant.

[Neu Leonstein]

By the way, there's an attempt by German football federation officials to distract from the mistakes they made by throwing Mesut Oezil under the bus for the Erdogan thing. They're effectively giving him an ultimatum to ask for penance with a public apology or to resign from the national team.

[The Archregimancy]

Pedant's corner....



Not technically correct.

Croatia wasn't an independent nation state in 1990, and wasn't a member of FIFA until after independence in 1991, but the Socialist Republic of Croatia was a constituent component of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and the constitution of the modern Republic of Croatia explicitly recognises the modern nation state as being the direct lineal legal descendant of its federated predecessor.



Also not technically correct.

There was never a country called 'West Germany'. While the country England played in '66 was commonly known as 'West Germany', and is referred as such in most histories of the World Cup, it was officially the Federal Republic of Germany, or Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Constitutionally, and under international law, the current German state is merely the enlarged continuation of the Federal Republic of Germany rather than a new state; the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany, ceased to exist, but the Federal Republic of Germany continued to exist. Which, of course, is one of the reasons why modern Germany can claim the World Cup titles won by pre-unification Germany; legally, modern 'Germany' and pre-unification 'West Germany' are the same state.

It wasn't a fifa country, and fifa acknowledges Serbia as the descendant.

Ah, but you didn't offer any qualifiers. You said the opponents 'didn't exist'; that simply wasn't the case politically.

Nor is it entirely true footbally (a word that I just made up).

It is true that FIFA and UEFA hold that Serbia is the sole successor of the Yugoslav national football team, but representative non FIFA-affiliated Croatian national sides played intermittently from 1918 through the 1950s - at one point even beating Yugoslavia. And while this example will be a little more controversial, Croatia was a full member of FIFA from 1941-1945, playing 19 friendlies during the period. Croatia also helps provide a modern example that FIFA membership isn't the sole qualifier in determining what constitutes a full international. While it took place a few months after the 1990 World Cup, Croatia's first full modern official international is considered to be their October 1990 match against the USA - a year before Croatia declared independence, and two years before they joined FIFA.

[The Blaatschapen]

It wasn't a fifa country, and fifa acknowledges Serbia as the descendant.

Ah, but you didn't offer any qualifiers. You said the opponents 'didn't exist'; that simply wasn't the case politically.

Nor is it entirely true footbally (a word that I just made up).

It is true that FIFA and UEFA hold that Serbia is the sole successor of the Yugoslav national football team, but representative non FIFA-affiliated Croatian national sides played intermittently from 1918 through the 1950s - at one point even beating Yugoslavia. And while this example will be a little more controversial, Croatia was a full member of FIFA from 1941-1945, playing 19 friendlies during the period. Croatia also helps provide a modern example that FIFA membership isn't the sole qualifier in determining what constitutes a full international. While it took place a few months after the 1990 World Cup, Croatia's first full modern official international is considered to be their October 1990 match against the USA - a year before Croatia declared independence, and two years before they joined FIFA.

Neither of those time periods cover the last England WC semi final.

I mean, there was also a kingdom of Croatia back in the days. No denial there. But footbally there was no Croatia in 1966.

[Vassenor]

England's last semi final was 1990 though.

[The Blaatschapen]

England's last semi final was 1990 though.

Sorry, my fault.

Still no fifa membership though, and given that this is a fifa tournament. Point stands.

[Riemstagrad]

So, because Belgium doesn't play against England in the semi it is certain that belgium will not split in the next three decades?

I'm convinced that some Belgians don't like that idea

With this unusual long world cup for Belgium, we have the very strange fact that the streets are full of belgian flags at the Flemish national holiday (july 11).
Even the president of the local division of the separatist NVA in my home-town has a belgian flag on his house these days....

[Bombadil]

By the way, there's an attempt by German football federation officials to distract from the mistakes they made by throwing Mesut Oezil under the bus for the Erdogan thing. They're effectively giving him an ultimatum to ask for penance with a public apology or to resign from the national team.

His actual stats weren't bad, I had wondered whether questioning whether he was really German would cause him to wonder how much passion he should put into playing but, actually, he was above average. One hopes his team members come out to support him and question those seeking to blame an individual for, honestly, what was a couple missed chances.

There's a seminal book called 'The person and the situation' as to humanities propensity to blame an individual over overall circumstance.