2018 FIFA World Cup Megathread

[Geneviev]

Germany needs something to be proud of. Don't take the 7:1 away from us.

Come on, we're the second most succesful team of all time. We can manage with the most succesful team of all time winning its re-match.

And being defeated by Brazil is rather less humiliating than getting kicked out of the WC by the combined powers of Mexico and South Korea, don't you think?

It's all humilating. But being defeated by Mexico, South Korea, and Brasil would be irredeemable shame.

[DesAnges]

Come on, we're the second most succesful team of all time. We can manage with the most succesful team of all time winning its re-match.

And being defeated by Brazil is rather less humiliating than getting kicked out of the WC by the combined powers of Mexico and South Korea, don't you think?

It's all humilating. But being defeated by Mexico, South Korea, and Brasil would be irredeemable shame.

I feel like you're focusing too much on the 7:1, that freak result that was amazing at the time but now is merely a footnote in a successful World Cup campaign.

[Yaana Noore]

Young being injured would probably benefit the England team tbh, there are so many better players than Young idk how he was picked, but I guess that’s why I’m not the England manager Southgate is.

Who would you pick at LB over Ashley Young (ignoring Danny Rose as he's already in the squad)?

Ashley Young isn't even a LB and my answer is almost anyone he contributes so little and is the worst player in the squad by a mile. Manchester United fanblog the BBC have really been praising Ashley Young at left-back for United but he has been utter crap. For some reason people are lapping this up, Southgate included. He has no left foot, he can't cross, can't run, can't defend. Rubbish at attacking too because he goes onto his right foot every time as it's the only one he can use, so easy to defend against. He's 32 but has only been to one tournament before so is not bringing 'experience' to a 'young side' but if we really were a young side his presence goes against what we are trying to build towards. Why is he there? Championship level footballer. Also a diving, cheating, bird-poo eating scumbag.

Ryan Bertrand is the obvious answer but I would have gladly had Ryan Sessegnon (also not a left-back but better than Young), Leighton Baines, Ben Chilwell, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Aaron Cresswell, or even rubbish Kieran Gibbs over him. I don't exactly rate these people but I detest Ashley Young. I'd rather they beg James Milner to come back and play at left-back or call up Charlie Daniels from Bournemouth than that mug.

[Esternial]

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN

[Geneviev]

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN

Quote, every disappointed German today after the first goal from South Korea.

[DesAnges]

Who would you pick at LB over Ashley Young (ignoring Danny Rose as he's already in the squad)?

Ashley Young isn't even a LB and my answer is almost anyone he contributes so little and is the worst player in the squad by a mile. Manchester United fanblog the BBC have really been praising Ashley Young at left-back for United but he has been utter crap. For some reason people are lapping this up, Southgate included. He has no left foot, he can't cross, can't run, can't defend. Rubbish at attacking too because he goes onto his right foot every time as it's the only one he can use, so easy to defend against. He's 32 but has only been to one tournament before so is not bringing 'experience' to a 'young side' but if we really were a young side his presence goes against what we are trying to build towards. Why is he there? Championship level footballer. Also a diving, cheating, bird-poo eating scumbag.

Ryan Bertrand is the obvious answer but I would have gladly had Ryan Sessegnon (also not a left-back but better than Young), Leighton Baines, Ben Chilwell, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Aaron Cresswell, or even rubbish Kieran Gibbs over him. I don't exactly rate these people but I detest Ashley Young. I'd rather they beg James Milner to come back and play at left-back or call up Charlie Daniels from Bournemouth than that mug.

Hahahaha.

Leighton Baines is immobile, Chilwell is...alright? I guess, AMN isn't a LB, Aaron Cresswell might have been worth a shout had he not just played for the 3rd worst team in the fucking league. I'm no fan of Young like, I'm a fucking Liverpool fan, but he has been very good for United for the whole year.

[DesAnges]

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN

Mate who do you think will have the most fouls at the end of tomorrow? You should have brought Elbows himself.

[Neu Leonstein]

Quote, every disappointed German today after the first goal from South Korea.

I was watching at work surrounded by Australians... but my reaction was a resigned nod. To be honest, they didn't look like they were going to win that match more or less from the first minute. Even if they had, it would have been just another reprieve. Things were not working, obviously. So when the Koreans scored it was more of a resigned acceptance of the writing on the wall rather than terribly upsetting.

[Fartsniffage]

Who would you pick at LB over Ashley Young (ignoring Danny Rose as he's already in the squad)?

Ashley Young isn't even a LB and my answer is almost anyone he contributes so little and is the worst player in the squad by a mile. Manchester United fanblog the BBC have really been praising Ashley Young at left-back for United but he has been utter crap. For some reason people are lapping this up, Southgate included. He has no left foot, he can't cross, can't run, can't defend. Rubbish at attacking too because he goes onto his right foot every time as it's the only one he can use, so easy to defend against. He's 32 but has only been to one tournament before so is not bringing 'experience' to a 'young side' but if we really were a young side his presence goes against what we are trying to build towards. Why is he there? Championship level footballer. Also a diving, cheating, bird-poo eating scumbag.

Ryan Bertrand is the obvious answer but I would have gladly had Ryan Sessegnon (also not a left-back but better than Young), Leighton Baines, Ben Chilwell, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Aaron Cresswell, or even rubbish Kieran Gibbs over him. I don't exactly rate these people but I detest Ashley Young. I'd rather they beg James Milner to come back and play at left-back or call up Charlie Daniels from Bournemouth than that mug.

I'm betting you're a Villa fan?

[Yaana Noore]

Hahahaha.

Leighton Baines is immobile, Chilwell is...alright? I guess, AMN isn't a LB, Aaron Cresswell might have been worth a shout had he not just played for the 3rd worst team in the fucking league. I'm no fan of Young like, I'm a fucking Liverpool fan, but he has been very good for United for the whole year.

I don't disagree, I just think all of them are better than Ashley Young. That Everton defence is like watching a geriatic sportsday and Baines is no different. Chilwell is just okay, solid I suppose. Cresswell has a great left foot and I used to really rate him but he plays in a garbage defence and I hate West Ham. AMN has played left-back for the youff and can do it in a five at the back system (not that I think we should be playing it). If it were me actually choosing the squad I would have chosen Ryan Bertrand in a heartbeat and been done with it. The rest are just me expressing how badly I hate Ashley Young.

[DesAnges]

Hahahaha.

Leighton Baines is immobile, Chilwell is...alright? I guess, AMN isn't a LB, Aaron Cresswell might have been worth a shout had he not just played for the 3rd worst team in the fucking league. I'm no fan of Young like, I'm a fucking Liverpool fan, but he has been very good for United for the whole year.

I don't disagree, I just think all of them are better than Ashley Young. That Everton defence is like watching a geriatic sportsday and Baines is no different. Chilwell is just okay, solid I suppose. Cresswell has a great left foot and I used to really rate him but he plays in a garbage defence and I hate West Ham. AMN has played left-back for the youff and can do it in a five at the back system (not that I think we should be playing it). If it were me actually choosing the squad I would have chosen Ryan Bertrand in a heartbeat and been done with it. The rest are just me expressing how badly I hate Ashley Young.

See, Bertrand? Naw. Southampton were awful this year and last. Not his fault but at the same time he shares the culpability and he certainly hasn't fulfilled the creative requirements of a WB.

What's wrong with the 3atb? It's effective and creates overloads where England are lacking in talent so need the extra numbers.

[Yaana Noore]

I'm betting you're a Villa fan?

Wolves fan actually. Why would Villa fans hate Ashley Young? In that period where they were challenging for top 4 Milner was the talented one, and after he left Young was overshadowed by bloody Stewart Downing 2010-11. Villa got good money for Ashley Young and Man United realised that they had wasted their money after one okay season before coming to the notion that they had no use for him. I hate him as he is a horrible person and a bad footballer.

[Yaana Noore]

See, Bertrand? Naw. Southampton were awful this year and last. Not his fault but at the same time he shares the culpability and he certainly hasn't fulfilled the creative requirements of a WB.
What's wrong with the 3atb? It's effective and creates overloads where England are lacking in talent so need the extra numbers.

Assuming we are stuck with the three at the back + wing-backs system Ryan Bertrand is perfect. Really good attacking left-back who can bomb down the wings and put good crosses in while also being solid defensive. I would say he is better suited to being a WB than a FB. Just because Southampton were bad doesn't mean he is. Cedric Soares is a fantastic WB in a poor Soton team. Bertrand hasn't been as good this year as last few years but the team has declined and they spent 3/4 of the year with Pellegrinoidea in charge.

I don't hate three at the back at all, Wolves play it and I think it is a brilliant system when you know what you are doing as Nuno has shown with Wolves this season and Conte did with Chelsea last season. Allows you to be solid defensively and you can break forwards with pace and with the right forward line that links up play have so many attacking options.

But it is heavily dependent on a few things, such as a good centre midfield. I'd say this is probably the most important thing in fact. You only have two midfielders in the middle of the park most of the time and you need a creative spark to keep things ticking. We had this in Neves but England lack any standout options. Henderson is neat and tidy but not creative enough and he loves a backpass and Dier is a ball-winner. The latter in particular has a good use but which lack anyone to take the ball forwards and can play our more talented forward line in. We still haven't been particularly good from open play. Personally I would have played Dier along with Wilshere as he is the only option we have for a creative midfielder but Southgate decided he is not worth the injury risk (but still called up Lallana to the standby squad? Err...). It's a real shame that Oxlade-Chamberlain was injured as he would be a great pick otherwise.

Secondly you need good wing-backs, or at least ones that can attack. Wolves had this, we had Matt Doherty at RWB and Barry Douglas at LWB. Funnily enough the former was playing LB all the season before due to an injury crisis and I spent a year of watching the Ashley Young situation for my club side. Doherty couldn't run, couldn't use his left foot, couldn't cross, and cut inside on every attack. Used to drive me mad watching him and this is perhaps the start of my 'playing full-backs on their wrong side' hatred.
Anyway my point was that these two were fantastic getting forwards and eventually both were great at going forwards enabled by the three solid defenders behind them. They gave us width and overlapped with the wingers giving us a great range of options for our creative midfielders (Neves, Saiss) to pick out and switch the play. The system was done fantastically.

You also need a striker that can link the play up and centre-backs that can bring the ball forwards. Harry Kane is a fantastic striker but link-up play isn't his strongest suit, I don't think it suits his strengths when there are other better options to get our only world class player to perform. Wolves had Benik Afobe in this role who is a fantastic striker for Championship level but like Kane wasn't suited to bringing other players into play and often had poor games as he struggled to get involved in the way he liked because of the system and so we got rid of him.
We can partially do the bringing the ball forwards from the back part to be fair. John Stones can, and Harry Maguire sort of can but thinks he is far better than he actually is, needs to get it into his massive head that he is not Beckenbauer. Jones and Cahill cannot but we have mercifully been spared from seeing them starting yet. Walker can bring the ball forwards too so I do get why Southgate plays him there but on the defence it strikes me as square peg, round hole.

[Bombadil]

Well.. it's not all about Germany, Sweden put out Italy in the qualifying and must be feeling it's a miracle.. it's not just that they had to beat Mexico but also South Korea to beat Germany..

Well done Sweden, when they did beat Italy it was all 'what's a world cup without Italy' and now it's all about Germany but.. you Swedes were a real 'turnip' for the books..

[Arumdaum]

What's with the underdogs that are already guaranteed to go home, suddenly turning up against a challenging/superior side in the last game?

Saudi Arabia, Morocco, South Korea, Peru, and now Costa Rica. Here's to hoping that Panama can get something out of the game with Tunisia.

nah korea would have advanced if mexico beat sweden, so not guaranteed to go home during the match

[Kita-Hinode]

It's actually almost a pity that Germany didn't advance to knockout stage to be subsequently destroyed by Brazil (I'm thinking 3-0 or 4-0 or so) and redeem the Brazilian national team and Brazil as a whole from their 2014 trauma. I mean, it's not as if they didn't deserve it.
But on the other hand, the South Korean team now at least has something to boast about forever.

Germany needs something to be proud of. Don't take the 7:1 away from us.

To quote one late great actor, the day you beat Brazil in a semi-final by a freak score was the best day of your life. For us, it was the date of the revival.

Not the greatest of revivals so far but at least we made through the Group stages.

[MERIZoC]

Fuck off Brazil, you Joga Bonito wankers. We need a new winner this time.

nO

its been 16 years, that counts as a dry spell

[Relikai]

< Cause target man is not an adequate description of Timo Werner. >

Exactly.

Germany performed well with a Target Man. Is Timo Werner the best the country has, perhaps one who plays as a smaller pacey attacker with technique easily snuffed out in a crowded box?

Werner is a forward for a counter-attacking side. He is basically the same speed as Sane. The problem is that while in 2010, Germany could play as a counterattacking side, they've changed their style since then. The way they ended the 2010 campaign was hugely influential in that, because the way Spain dominated them was what convinced Loew that the way to go was to combine Spain's ability to dominate a game by monopolising possession with the counterattacking prowess that 2010 Germany had.

At the same time, oppositions stopped inviting German counters, both in qualifiers and in tournaments. The German team became about breaking down defenses. The high line that had helped with "gegenpressing" and being in a position to counter aggressively gradually morphed into being about monopolising possession well in the opposition half, switching play from side to side until an incisive pass could pierce through and create a chance. And I think Germany was at its best when that worked.

But I think since then, it morphed again... the creative passing, the little one-twos that they did at their best were enabled by stretching opposition defenses laterally, and the way to do that was by pushing the fullbacks up for crosses. But instead of being a tool that helps create the space the creative players can use, it became more and more the only thing they did. It became easier to deal with (especially since there was only one Lahm, and then only one Kimmich, so the play naturally ended up coming from only one side).

I think this tournament that process reached its peak. Can you remember an incisive passing combination played by Kroos, Oezil, Reus, Guendogan, Mueller or Draxler? No, it was: pass to Kimmich and hope the cross is decent. Too often it wasn't, and even when it was, Werner is not the best man to be at the end of it. Remember how I complained that France is too predictable with passes by Pogba through the middle? Germany did the opposite - they were too predictable with the crosses.

Add to that the well-established vulnerability to the counter, which comes from pushing up the defenders, having the central defenders spread out to allow the fullbacks more freedom going forward, and having no really good defensive midfield bruiser, and you end up with the performance they showed at this tournament.

It wasn't good enough - they played three poor games, and they went out quite justifiably as a result. I'm disappointed, but I didn't like how they played and I think it's time to drop what is in my view a tactic that ended up not allowing the best players that Germany has do the thing they're best at (and that includes the next generation, who are clearly quite good - see Confed Cup and U21 World Cup). If they don't have an amazing target man who will be at the end of any cross, don't play crosses all the time. Add a good portion of complacency (which I shared... I thought the questionable performances over the past year or two would all magically disappear because after all, they are a tournament team), and you get this mess.

Should Loew go? Maybe. I'm not sure I can think of a replacement right about now - I really think it would have to be someone who will stick around for several major tournaments, so it should be the right person. But regardless of who the coach is, I think there needs to be something of a rethink of how the German team approaches matches tactically. A new generation of players will require a new approach. Maybe it's time for the German team to go back to giving the opposition more of the ball and more of the field and create some space to break into that a Werner, Reus, Brandt, or Sane can exploit.

EDIT : Did Ozil play? Don't recall seeing him on the pitch.

Unfair. Here are his passes, with those leading to shots on goal in yellow.

Never said Werner was a target man. Poor boy's obviously overawed, and the observation on Germany's lack of capable strong strikers after Mario Gomez's floppy performance reflects a greater problem.

I watched enough Manchester United matches under van Gaal and Mourinho to immediately identify their weakness, the predictability, the same boring play leading to no conclusion especially against teams which simply sat back and and defended as a unit. Send the ball to the flanks, pass pass, yada yada yada... no penetration and no presence in the box like how Reus managed to score that goal against Sweden. It's like watching a mirror, and the smartphone becomes much more interesting than a build up play. Wing play is dependent on good crosses, and good crosses don't come from a crosser who stops and looks for three seconds before launching one into the box. None of them played like against Sweden, none of them dared to make a run to the line and split the defence with a low cross.

There is no passing as Kroos and Khedira seemed more interested in drawing a foul and then letting their opponents return into a shape. There is no hardman because Khedira has no interest in playing. Any game started by the Turkish Duo simply grounded to a halt, and instead of finding space in the game, Mueller seemed to have found space out of the pitch.

The core of the problem is more that the 2014 winners are lacking in motivation, not even running, and the new guys are simply too overawed by the occasion. Reus cannot carry a pedestrian team on his own especially when the engine room's impotent with their passes. Everything is one-directional, and when teams sit in deep they lack a Klose-man to break them down and force them into the attack. If the whole of Germany can only produce Werner as an alternative over Gomez, then the midfield has to change. Werner's not going to head balls in a crowded box, he's better in receiving a quick ball and leading the line with a couple of assisting players running into the box. Then again his decision making and playmaking at that age is still lacking, but he should improve with hard work and maturity.

United chose to go for a hard and strong forward to compensate for their slow play. Does the entire nation of Germany have anyone able to step up to fulfill that?

[Forsher]

Footballing history has been made today. A truly deserved win.

Not really. Neither Korea nor Germany were particularly winner-like. The difference being, essentially, that Hummels didn't score any of those opportunities whereas Korea's three moments resulted in two goals (one of which resulted in the other seeing as it forced Neuer forwards out of desperation).

Really it boggles the mind why Germany didn't start with the team that finished against Sweden (plus a replacement defender).

Quote, every disappointed German today after the first goal from South Korea.

I was watching at work surrounded by Australians... but my reaction was a resigned nod. To be honest, they didn't look like they were going to win that match more or less from the first minute. Even if they had, it would have been just another reprieve. Things were not working, obviously. So when the Koreans scored it was more of a resigned acceptance of the writing on the wall rather than terribly upsetting.

There was a very... un-team-ness feel to what I saw the Germans doing. And it wasn't even an ego problem... more "I have the ball, I shall pass now, someone else will be there/do something"... until it got to Kroos (who would shoot) or was crossed to Hummels (who'd put it on top of the goal)... or, as was most likely, it turned out to be a South Korean who was there (at which point cue turnover of possession and the cycle starts again).

[Bombadil]

The Korean Ambassador to Mexico being held up by fans.. Mexican fans.. https://twitter.com/ByJamesWagner/statu ... -world-cup

Further down he's swigging tequila in a Mexican shirt.. Byoung-jin Han.. que un hermano!

[Pasong Tirad]

The Korean Ambassador to Mexico being held up by fans.. Mexican fans.. https://twitter.com/ByJamesWagner/statu ... -world-cup

Further down he's swigging tequila in a Mexican shirt.. Byoung-jin Han.. que un hermano!

https://twitter.com/dave__whiteside/sta ... 1371828224 Here's one of some random Korean on the street being paraded by the Mexicans.

Also this https://www.facebook.com/OhMyGoal.KeliN ... 793325658/

[Bombadil]

The Korean Ambassador to Mexico being held up by fans.. Mexican fans.. https://twitter.com/ByJamesWagner/statu ... -world-cup

Further down he's swigging tequila in a Mexican shirt.. Byoung-jin Han.. que un hermano!

https://twitter.com/dave__whiteside/sta ... 1371828224 Here's one of some random Korean on the street being paraded by the Mexicans.

Also this https://www.facebook.com/OhMyGoal.KeliN ... 793325658/

Well that's what I love about the WC, all these nations having fun.. I remember being in the main square in Seoul in '02 watching US-Korea and everything was just so friendly. I heard this morning that every nation has scored at least a goal in these rounds, just a small moment of celebration for everyone - even that Panama game, despite being 6-1 down the Panamanian fans were loving that they'd scored a goal.

Frankly Sweden and Mexico should send Korea a bunch of flowers.

[The Blaatschapen]

I've been living in Berlin, Germany for slightly over a year now.

And I keep being amazed how similar Dutch and Germans are. It's uncanny.

Germans also cannot play football.

[The Black Party]

Honestly, I hate the VAR. Referees should make all decisions with the naked eye, and be ready to defend it regardless of right or wrong. Incorrect decisions are a vital part of football, and what makes the sport entertaining. With the VAR, we'll never have another legendary moment like Maradona's hand of God, or Suarez's tactical handball vs. Ghana.

VAR just kills the sport, and Fairplay can go take one because football isn't about fair play, it's about winning (Unless you're in charity match or some other circumstance).

[Starblaydia]

"VAR is stopping players cheating and must be banned"

lol whatever