LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Ostroeuropa]

Why did they want to destroy the catholic community and where did that part of the discourse that made up their identity come from.

It came from radical Protestantism and opposition to King Charles I. But that was 300 years earlier, it doesn't make anything understandable. The Protestants in Northern Ireland were radical and wanted to impose a religious regime, not prevent one from rising.

You mean support for democracy against papacy backed absolute monarchism. That's "Radical protestantism" to you, is it?

Reminder; the catholic church was still a menace to humanity until at least 1945 in terms of supporting outright dictatorship, opposition to democracy, and opposition to human rights.

Ideally, when the catholic church changed, anti-catholicism would go away.
Instead, it took about 60 years.
Sad, but not evidence of the inherent cruelty or prejudice of protestants, compared to, say, 2000 years of actively burning lollards and shit, an attitude that had to be burned out of the catholic church by a series of brutal wars and forcibly declawing them.

Catholics are seperate from the church... except in terms of, you know.
Supporting the church rather than the protest of the church.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Catholics had been on the losing side of oppression in Ireland for hundreds of years. The Protestants in NI weren't oppressing the Catholics because of memories of an authoritarian Catholic Church, but because they wanted to destroy the Catholic community in Northern Ireland. The Protestants were the religious fanatics (and still are) in Northern Ireland.

Why did they want to destroy the catholic community and where did that part of the discourse that made up their identity come from. Comparatively, when catholics stopped being a threat to human rights and democracy, the protestants gave up their power very quickly in societal terms, compared to the thousands of years of active suppression by the catholic church against all enemies.

(Notice protestants often tolerated other sects, not always, but mostly.)

Reminder, until 1945, the catholic church was still a menace to humanity and probably for some years after that.

The Protestants let the Catholics live in peace because the UK government was desperate for peace, before that, the Protestants were bombing Catholic schools and cathedrals.

[Chestaan]

Catholics had been on the losing side of oppression in Ireland for hundreds of years. The Protestants in NI weren't oppressing the Catholics because of memories of an authoritarian Catholic Church, but because they wanted to destroy the Catholic community in Northern Ireland. The Protestants were the religious fanatics (and still are) in Northern Ireland.

Why did they want to destroy the catholic community and where did that part of the discourse that made up their identity come from. Comparatively, when catholics stopped being a threat to human rights and democracy, the protestants gave up their power very quickly in societal terms, compared to the thousands of years of active suppression by the catholic church against all enemies.

(Notice protestants often tolerated other sects, not always, but mostly.)

Reminder, until 1945, the catholic church was still a menace to humanity and probably for some years after that.

The unionist problem with Catholics wasn't their religion, it was their ethnicity, and to a lesser extent their political views. Take the Orange Order as an example, it's not enough to be a Protestant to join, but your parents also have to have been Protestants.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It came from radical Protestantism and opposition to King Charles I. But that was 300 years earlier, it doesn't make anything understandable. The Protestants in Northern Ireland were radical and wanted to impose a religious regime, not prevent one from rising.

You mean support for democracy against papacy backed absolute monarchism. That's "Radical protestantism" to you, is it?

Reminder; the catholic church was still a menace to humanity until at least 1945 in terms of supporting outright dictatorship, opposition to democracy, and opposition to human rights.

The Protestants in Northern Ireland supported Absolute Monarchism too in many cases, read up on Ian Paisley. They also suppressed catholic democracy.

And for radical protestantism, I meant things like this:

The DUP has strong links to the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, the small church founded by Ian Paisley. The vast majority of DUP members are evangelical Christians and, on average, 65% of its representatives since its founding have been Free Presbyterians.[88] The party also has links with the Caleb Foundation, a Protestant fundamentalist pressure group.[89] Matthew d'Ancona, writing for The New York Times, has described the party as "a hard-line reactionary party, devoted ... to a social conservatism that directly contradicts the modernization of the Conservative Party in the past 15 years".[90]

The DUP has opposed LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. Party leaders—as well as many prominent party members—have condemned homosexuality, and a 2014 survey found that two-thirds of party members believe homosexuality is wrong.[91] The DUP campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts, which it believed to be a "harmful deviance" linked to paedophilia, in Northern Ireland through the "Save Ulster from Sodomy" campaign between 1977 and 1982,[92] and the party has vetoed the legalisation of same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland since 2015, making Northern Ireland the only region of the UK where same-sex marriage is not legalised.[93] Former DUP minister Jim Wells called the issue a "red line" for power-sharing talks, adding that "Peter will not marry Paul in Northern Ireland".[94] The party attempted to introduce a "conscience clause" into law in Northern Ireland, which would let businesses refuse to provide a service if it went against their religious beliefs. This came after a Christian-owned bakery was taken to court for refusing to make a cake bearing a pro-gay marriage slogan. Opponents argued that the clause would allow discrimination against LGBT people.[95]

The party maintains that it is "pro-life" and members have campaigned strongly against any extension of abortion rights to Northern Ireland, unanimously opposing a bill by Labour MP Diana Johnson to protect women in England and Wales from criminal prosecution if they ended a pregnancy using pills bought online.[96][97] They have opposed extra funding for international family planning programmes.[97]

Some DUP politicians have called for creationism to be taught in schools,[98][99] and for museums to include creationism in their exhibits.[100][101] In 2007 a DUP spokesman confirmed that these views were in line with party policy.[98]

[Chestaan]

It came from radical Protestantism and opposition to King Charles I. But that was 300 years earlier, it doesn't make anything understandable. The Protestants in Northern Ireland were radical and wanted to impose a religious regime, not prevent one from rising.

You mean support for democracy against papacy backed absolute monarchism. That's "Radical protestantism" to you, is it?

Reminder; the catholic church was still a menace to humanity until at least 1945 in terms of supporting outright dictatorship, opposition to democracy, and opposition to human rights.

Ideally, when the catholic church changed, anti-catholicism would go away.
Instead, it took about 60 years.
Sad, but not evidence of the inherent cruelty or prejudice of protestants, compared to, say, 2000 years of actively burning lollards and shit, an attitude that had to be burned out of the catholic church by a series of brutal wars and forcibly declawing them.

Catholics are seperate from the church... except in terms of, you know.
Supporting the church rather than the protest of the church.

Nobody is saying that Protestants are the bad guys.

[Ostroeuropa]

You mean support for democracy against papacy backed absolute monarchism. That's "Radical protestantism" to you, is it?

Reminder; the catholic church was still a menace to humanity until at least 1945 in terms of supporting outright dictatorship, opposition to democracy, and opposition to human rights.

The Protestants in Northern Ireland supported Absolute Monarchism too in many cases, read up on Ian Paisley. They also suppressed catholic democracy.

And for radical protestantism, I meant things like this:

The DUP has strong links to the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, the small church founded by Ian Paisley. The vast majority of DUP members are evangelical Christians and, on average, 65% of its representatives since its founding have been Free Presbyterians.[88] The party also has links with the Caleb Foundation, a Protestant fundamentalist pressure group.[89] Matthew d'Ancona, writing for The New York Times, has described the party as "a hard-line reactionary party, devoted ... to a social conservatism that directly contradicts the modernization of the Conservative Party in the past 15 years".[90]

The DUP has opposed LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. Party leaders—as well as many prominent party members—have condemned homosexuality, and a 2014 survey found that two-thirds of party members believe homosexuality is wrong.[91] The DUP campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts, which it believed to be a "harmful deviance" linked to paedophilia, in Northern Ireland through the "Save Ulster from Sodomy" campaign between 1977 and 1982,[92] and the party has vetoed the legalisation of same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland since 2015, making Northern Ireland the only region of the UK where same-sex marriage is not legalised.[93] Former DUP minister Jim Wells called the issue a "red line" for power-sharing talks, adding that "Peter will not marry Paul in Northern Ireland".[94] The party attempted to introduce a "conscience clause" into law in Northern Ireland, which would let businesses refuse to provide a service if it went against their religious beliefs. This came after a Christian-owned bakery was taken to court for refusing to make a cake bearing a pro-gay marriage slogan. Opponents argued that the clause would allow discrimination against LGBT people.[95]

The party maintains that it is "pro-life" and members have campaigned strongly against any extension of abortion rights to Northern Ireland, unanimously opposing a bill by Labour MP Diana Johnson to protect women in England and Wales from criminal prosecution if they ended a pregnancy using pills bought online.[96][97] They have opposed extra funding for international family planning programmes.[97]

Some DUP politicians have called for creationism to be taught in schools,[98][99] and for museums to include creationism in their exhibits.[100][101] In 2007 a DUP spokesman confirmed that these views were in line with party policy.[98]

Yeah, in modern times, the orangists and the protestant hardliners are the bad guys of the situation. Not denying it. I've said as much before too. They think they can rest on their laurels in terms of progressing humanity while demonizing their opponents for previous failures they've since gotten over, and that's just not how it works.

My distaste and disdain for historical catholics works on them too.

"We're better than 19th century catholics" is a low, low bar.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The Protestants in Northern Ireland supported Absolute Monarchism too in many cases, read up on Ian Paisley. They also suppressed catholic democracy.

And for radical protestantism, I meant things like this:

The DUP has strong links to the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, the small church founded by Ian Paisley. The vast majority of DUP members are evangelical Christians and, on average, 65% of its representatives since its founding have been Free Presbyterians.[88] The party also has links with the Caleb Foundation, a Protestant fundamentalist pressure group.[89] Matthew d'Ancona, writing for The New York Times, has described the party as "a hard-line reactionary party, devoted ... to a social conservatism that directly contradicts the modernization of the Conservative Party in the past 15 years".[90]

The DUP has opposed LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. Party leaders—as well as many prominent party members—have condemned homosexuality, and a 2014 survey found that two-thirds of party members believe homosexuality is wrong.[91] The DUP campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts, which it believed to be a "harmful deviance" linked to paedophilia, in Northern Ireland through the "Save Ulster from Sodomy" campaign between 1977 and 1982,[92] and the party has vetoed the legalisation of same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland since 2015, making Northern Ireland the only region of the UK where same-sex marriage is not legalised.[93] Former DUP minister Jim Wells called the issue a "red line" for power-sharing talks, adding that "Peter will not marry Paul in Northern Ireland".[94] The party attempted to introduce a "conscience clause" into law in Northern Ireland, which would let businesses refuse to provide a service if it went against their religious beliefs. This came after a Christian-owned bakery was taken to court for refusing to make a cake bearing a pro-gay marriage slogan. Opponents argued that the clause would allow discrimination against LGBT people.[95]

The party maintains that it is "pro-life" and members have campaigned strongly against any extension of abortion rights to Northern Ireland, unanimously opposing a bill by Labour MP Diana Johnson to protect women in England and Wales from criminal prosecution if they ended a pregnancy using pills bought online.[96][97] They have opposed extra funding for international family planning programmes.[97]

Some DUP politicians have called for creationism to be taught in schools,[98][99] and for museums to include creationism in their exhibits.[100][101] In 2007 a DUP spokesman confirmed that these views were in line with party policy.[98]

Yeah, in modern times, the orangists and the protestant hardliners are the bad guys of the situation. Not denying it. I've said as much before too. They think they can rest on their laurels in terms of progressing humanity while demonizing their opponents for previous failures they've since gotten over, and that's just not how it works.

My distaste and disdain for historical catholics works on them too.

"We're better than 19th century catholics" is a low, low bar.

They believed that in the Troubles too.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yeah, in modern times, the orangists and the protestant hardliners are the bad guys of the situation. Not denying it. I've said as much before too. They think they can rest on their laurels in terms of progressing humanity while demonizing their opponents for previous failures they've since gotten over, and that's just not how it works.

My distaste and disdain for historical catholics works on them too.

"We're better than 19th century catholics" is a low, low bar.

They believed that in the Troubles too.

Yeah, for "100% understandable reasons."

It doesn't make it right. Nor is the IRA right.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Yeah I know, that's why I said she was explicitly against what would later be termed liberal feminism.

Well, as a socialist/Marxist feminist (technically, a critical realist feminist), I also find liberal feminism to be problematic. It is rooted in the American cult of individualism.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Do you then oppose the ANC and Nelson Mandela?

I respect Nelson Mandela, just as I respect Mahatma Gandhi, but I do not support their nationalist objectives. However, I certainly supported Mandela's struggle against apartheid.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

jews

I hope this isn't anti-semitism

UntoRain's posted views correspond with those of many branches of the KKK.

[Chestaan]

Do you then oppose the ANC and Nelson Mandela?

I respect Nelson Mandela, just as I respect Mahatma Gandhi, but I do not support their nationalist objectives. However, I certainly supported Mandela's struggle against apartheid.

That's pretty much my view also. Mandela and the IRA were right to fight against the state but their nationalism wasn't a good goal.

[UntoRain]

I hope this isn't anti-semitism

UntoRain's posted views correspond with those of many branches of the KKK.

thats the point i respect the klan greatly for their contributions to the health of america

[Irou]

UntoRain's posted views correspond with those of many branches of the KKK.

thats the point i respect the klan greatly for their contributions to the health of america

okie dokie

[Democratic Communist Federation]

That's pretty much my view also. Mandela and the IRA were right to fight against the state but their nationalism wasn't a good goal.

Yes, their hearts were in the right place, but some of their objectives were misguided.

[United Muscovite Nations]

UntoRain's posted views correspond with those of many branches of the KKK.

thats the point i respect the klan greatly for their contributions to the health of america

>the ANC and IRA are comparable to the Klan
1-888-come-on-now

[UntoRain]

thats the point i respect the klan greatly for their contributions to the health of america

>the ANC and IRA are comparable to the Klan
1-888-come-on-now

all 3 fought for liberation of their homeland from a oppressive force

[Cekoviu]

>the ANC and IRA are comparable to the Klan
1-888-come-on-now

all 3 fought for liberation of their homeland from a oppressive force

Black people were brought to America largely as slaves, and this was paid for by white people. If you've brought in an "oppressive force" on purpose and oppressed them yourselves, you hardly have a right to complain when they fight back.

[United Muscovite Nations]

>the ANC and IRA are comparable to the Klan
1-888-come-on-now

all 3 fought for liberation of their homeland from a oppressive force

>murdering freed slaves is fighting for the liberation of your homeland
Huh how about that

[UntoRain]

all 3 fought for liberation of their homeland from a oppressive force

Black people were brought to America largely as slaves, and this was paid for by white people. If you've brought in an "oppressive force" on purpose and oppressed them yourselves, you hardly have a right to complain when they fight back.

whites did not bring or kidnap slaves they were sold to us by the tribesmen and kings of africa in exchange for resources

[The Parkus Empire]

Black people were brought to America largely as slaves, and this was paid for by white people. If you've brought in an "oppressive force" on purpose and oppressed them yourselves, you hardly have a right to complain when they fight back.

whites did not bring or kidnap slaves they were sold to us by the tribesmen and kings of africa in exchange for resources

Still imported them, it's not like they were illegal immigrants.

[Kubra]

Black people were brought to America largely as slaves, and this was paid for by white people. If you've brought in an "oppressive force" on purpose and oppressed them yourselves, you hardly have a right to complain when they fight back.

whites did not bring or kidnap slaves they were sold to us by the tribesmen and kings of africa in exchange for resources

>slavey is ok so long as you don't do the enslaving

[Democratic Communist Federation]

whites did not bring or kidnap slaves they were sold to us by the tribesmen and kings of africa in exchange for resources

One itty-bitty problem. You can't buy and sell human beings. Well, at least not unless you want to burn in hell (sorry for introducing religious speak into the dialogue).

[UntoRain]

whites did not bring or kidnap slaves they were sold to us by the tribesmen and kings of africa in exchange for resources

>slavey is ok so long as you don't do the enslaving

slavery made the southern economy successful then that fake white abraham lincoln abolished it and tried to kill white people in the civil war

[The Parkus Empire]

whites did not bring or kidnap slaves they were sold to us by the tribesmen and kings of africa in exchange for resources

One itty-bitty problem. You can't buy and sell human beings. Well, at least not unless you want to burn in hell (sorry for introducing religious speak into the dialogue).

This post contains high traces of humanism and crypto-Kantianism