LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I bet you don't remember that news article about how a lot of Americans asked on the street about the Russian annexation of Crimea thought that Crimea was in Kansas.

As a resident of Kansas for the last 26 years, I can assure anyone who asks that Kansas may have some crime but no Crimea.

[Dumb Ideologies]

"Queer people", not "queers". It's been reclaimed as an adjective, but use of it as a noun, especially by cishet people, is generally still considered offensive. The only time you'll see it as a noun outside a pejorative context is generally queer people using it semi-jokingly.

You can't make this shit up.

Once more you critically underestimate the extent of what we degenerates will do with da poopoo.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Your identity should not have any bearing on whether or not something is offensive. Context matters, not identity.

Captain Prescriptive appears on the scene.

What are you trying to say?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Your identity should not have any bearing on whether or not something is offensive. Context matters, not identity.

To play devil's advocate, a large part of the context is the person who says it.

Exactly.

[Jelmatt]

No, the far-left gaining ground is good (assuming they're left-libertarian). Far-right is spooky and we must all collectively destroy it



As-salam Alaikum, fellow Baathist Republican Guard :V :V :V

Mass radicalization is never good, and they're probably not gonna be libertarian-left.

Most far left movements gaining ground in Europe are, at the most authoritarian, democratic socialists with an antiauthoritarian bent. No matter how much they want to LARP about it, tankies are irrelevant in the first world (hence why you've got Third-Worldist tankies).

[Mattopilos II]

Mass radicalization is never good, and they're probably not gonna be libertarian-left.

Most far left movements gaining ground in Europe are, at the most authoritarian, democratic socialists with an antiauthoritarian bent. No matter how much they want to LARP about it, tankies are irrelevant in the first world (hence why you've got Third-Worldist tankies).

The most they can do is pose as people "using the system to overthrow it", and finding out that ain't happening.

[-United Republic of Freedonia]

Pride of the gloriuos Union

[Ostroeuropa]

Mass radicalization is never good, and they're probably not gonna be libertarian-left.

Most far left movements gaining ground in Europe are, at the most authoritarian, democratic socialists with an antiauthoritarian bent. No matter how much they want to LARP about it, tankies are irrelevant in the first world (hence why you've got Third-Worldist tankies).

Disagree. The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian.

[-United Republic of Freedonia]

Disagree. The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian.

Outside North America and some places of Europe, no one the cares about SJWism or just don't know what it is.

Source: i don't live in the "first world"

[Ostroeuropa]

Disagree. The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian.

Outside North America and some places of Europe, no one the cares about SJWism or just don't know what it is.

Source: i don't live in the "first world"

He specifically talked about Europe though, and said the left movements there weren't authoritarian. Many of them are.

[Attempted Socialism]

Most far left movements gaining ground in Europe are, at the most authoritarian, democratic socialists with an antiauthoritarian bent. No matter how much they want to LARP about it, tankies are irrelevant in the first world (hence why you've got Third-Worldist tankies).

Disagree. The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian.

If I ask for examples, will you offer single persons on Twitter, people who used a hashtag or with their own blog, or will you be able to name movements, parties and people with power?

[-United Republic of Freedonia]

He specifically talked about Europe though, and said the left movements there weren't authoritarian. Many of them are.

"The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian"

That's doesn't have sense, it is true that there's authoritarian-left movements in Europe, but i don't see Nordic Progressivism trying to spread the revolution. This whole "Authoritarian Progressivism" sounds a "first world problem" and impossible on the RL political stage.

[Ostroeuropa]

He specifically talked about Europe though, and said the left movements there weren't authoritarian. Many of them are.

"The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian"

That's doesn't have sense, it is true that there's authoritarian-left movements in Europe, but i don't see Nordic Progressivism trying to spread the revolution. This whole "Authoritarian Progressivism" sounds a "first world problem" and impossible on the RL political stage.

See below.

Disagree. The progressive and feminist factions are often authoritarian.

If I ask for examples, will you offer single persons on Twitter, people who used a hashtag or with their own blog, or will you be able to name movements, parties and people with power?

Well in the UK you've got the changes to the justice system and the collapse of due process following a feminist push to increase rape convictions while demonizing critics as misogynist, that's recently imploded and they're having to throw out hundreds of cases as it's emerged the police were pressured into withholding exculpatory evidence in order to meet targets and adhere to the feminist demands of Alison Saunders, the head of the crown prosecution service. In the US you've likewise got due process violations on university campuses (here though, the justice system is siding with human rights and often ordering universities to pay out compensation to the victims of feminist campus kangaroo courts.)

Then you've got the sex-negative faction and its influence on porn laws and so on. In the UK you've also got the recent arrest and conviction of the nazi-pug guy as a good example of the kind of anti-free speech laws progressives have passed. There's hundreds of other specific examples, laws, and human rights violations, but due process seems pretty sufficient to prove the point. If you can be punished for crimes without a fair trial, if the government is told to withhold evidence that proves you were innocent and hide it from a jury in order to persecute your demographic and live up to the expectations and prejudices of dogmatic bigots and feed into their need to pretend rape is more prevalent than it actually is because they want to vilify men, that is the essence of totalitarianism and authoritarianism, and it has been advanced in both the US and UK by the feminist movement.

In both, it's a matter of fact. It is not up for dispute. Both countries justice systems have concluded due process was violated.

The actions of feminism there are pretty much textbook discrimination against a demographic and turning the justice system into a weapon of prejudice and hate, that in itself is also indicative of authoritarianism and totalitarianism, as prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry are in essence authoritarian in nature.

On that subject, in the UK, feminists have managed to change sentencing guidelines to demand women receive less jail time than men for the same crimes. (See the judges handbook.)

For more general evidence of an authoritarian and anti-freedom mindset being prevalent, check the protests by feminists against mens rights groups, especially ones where fire alarms are pulled to violate the rights of MRAs and suppress their organizations through illegal tactics. The crowds of feminists cheer when it happens. That's less convincing than the specific examples I offered though.

To pretend feminism as it exists in the UK and US isn't an authoritarian hate movement requires ignoring what it actually gets up to and erasing the victims of their activities. It requires a complete absence of consideration for the facts, and instead relies on merely believing their assertions and PR campaigns and not bothering to look further into it. It's much like when conservatives pretend to be a for a stable economy and use that kind of rhetoric. Feminism is to equality as George Bush is to market stability.

The problem is that they're kind of even worse than right wingers on this, as at least right wingers are able to comprehend that merely because they think their ideology brings market stability, that doesn't make it the same thing as market stability, whereas it seems very few feminists can admit the same about feminism and gender equality. Imagine if right wingers said that definitionally if you're not a conservative on economics you are against a strong economy, because conservatism means a strong economy. That's the level of discourse many feminists operate with, and they use it to bully, gaslight, and harass people into not criticizing their movement. That in itself is a totalitarian ploy too, Orwellian word games to try and make dissent impossible to articulate.

When you bother to investigate it and look further into its effects, it's not very positive. This is an evaluation of the overall movement and the trends in it, there are outliers who for some reason join it despite these things.

[Threlizdun]

Ostroeuropa, while I don't have the stats for sexual assault in the UK on hand, in the US out of every 100 rapes committed, an estimated 5-20 are reported to police, 0.4-5.4 are prosecuted, 0.2-5.2 result in a conviction, and 0.02-2.8 result in incarceration.(Tjaden & Thoennes, 2006, p. 7) But of course, the feminist movement is an authoritarian effort to facilitate false accusations towards men, despite the fact that rapes still generally aren't reported, usually don't reach trial, seldom get a conviction, and almost never result in incarceration. Meanwhile, victims are still regularly dragged through the mud whenever they make accusations, face violence and death threats in response to their accusations, are asked questions in courtrooms about what they were wearing and their previous sexual behaviors out of assumptions that they're just "asking for it" despite rape shield laws specifically prohibiting this, and in the end tend to get absolutely nothing out of it. But of course, it's all just a conspiracy by women to see all men imprisoned, and we should just shut up about about sexual assault and rape.

[Threlizdun]

It's usage as a noun is starting to increase some, but it's still pretty uncommon, and again, generally used in a semi-ironic context. Cishet people using it as a noun however is going to start some fights.

Maybe it depends on the population. In academia, we use the singular term Queer all the time, as in queer theory. No one, whether CIS or Transgendered, or whether straight or Gay/Lesbian, takes the term Queer as offensive. Now, if you go back 20 years, yes, but not in the 21ˢᵗ century.

Queer theory is a conceptional framework for analyzing the historical construction of sexuality and gender and its relationship to positions of power within society. Talking about it within that framework is still different from calling someone "a queer". Perhaps your school is different, but I've never met queer folk who haven't objected to cishet people using queer as a noun. As for people finding queer as an adjective offensive, it's not that common anymore, but there's occasionally some, especially among older folks in the LGBTQIA community. Admittedly, I still use queer as an umbrella term for the community, and a lot of people do now, though I'll avoid using it to describe others if they don't want to be referred to as such.

As a side note, it's also just "transgender" now, not "transgendered". A lot of people felt the "ed" implied that it was a verb, like it was something we did to ourselves, rather than just a descriptive adjective of an aspect of our identity. That's a more recent change of terms, so not everyone will get upset over it, but by and large the trans community has expressed that they largely prefer the change in terminology.

[Ostroeuropa]

Ostroeuropa, while I don't have the stats for sexual assault in the UK on hand, in the US out of every 100 rapes committed, an estimated 5-20 are reported to police, 0.4-5.4 are prosecuted, 0.2-5.2 result in a conviction, and 0.02-2.8 result in incarceration.(Tjaden & Thoennes, 2006, p. 7) But of course, the feminist movement is an authoritarian effort to facilitate false accusations towards men, despite the fact that rapes still generally aren't reported, usually don't reach trial, seldom get a conviction, and almost never result in incarceration. Meanwhile, victims are still regularly dragged through the mud whenever they make accusations, face violence and death threats in response to their accusations, are asked questions in courtrooms about what they were wearing and their previous sexual behaviors out of assumptions that they're just "asking for it" despite rape shield laws specifically prohibiting this, and in the end tend to get absolutely nothing out of it. But of course, it's all just a conspiracy by women to see all men imprisoned, and we should just shut up about about sexual assault and rape.

It is a matter of fact that due process violations have been systemically occurring in the US as a result of feminist demands for campus trials. That is what the courts have found. Merely repeating the rationalizations they used to violate mens human rights doesn't justify their behavior, in fact it sounds like you're trying to support it.

So i'll ask you;

Do you support due process, and do you accept that courts have found the campus trials are violating due process, and do you accept feminism instituted those campus trials?

if yes, then why are you acting like repeating the rationalizations they used to violate human beings rights isn't apologism for human rights violations?

It's as bad as if I started rattling off terrorism stats to justify persecution of muslims and violating their rights. That's how you are behaving, and you're behaving that way because feminist ideology has blinded you to what you're engaging in.

A hate movement using a populations grievances to push for authoritarian actions is what i'm accusing it of.

You're basically using a Versailles was unfair argument and ignoring the movements ACTIONS that they get up to using those things as excuses. I'm really bored of feminists acting that way. You're on the same level of discourse as a Nazi when it comes to justifying their behavior, you realize that, right? You're fundamentally doing the same thing, the Versailles was unfair shit.

None of what you said should distract from the fact that feminism violated peoples human rights. Their excuses, their rationalizations for it, DO NOT MATTER.
I'm really, honestly, sick of feminists acting like they do.

Constant reference to womens grievances is not an argument for why feminism isn't a hate movement that discriminates against men and violates their rights. Know what would be? Showing it doesn't routinely violate mens human rights, but you can't do that because that's what the movement routinely does, and then excuses their abuses and atrocities because women have issues.

Why do you feel the need to distract from the human rigths violations feminism is perpetrating by derailing a discussion on mens oppression by feminism into a list of womens grievances?

[Oil exporting People]

Queer theory is a conceptional framework for analyzing the historical construction of sexuality and gender and its relationship to positions of power within society. Talking about it within that framework is still different from calling someone "a queer". Perhaps your school is different, but I've never met queer folk who haven't objected to cishet people using queer as a noun. As for people finding queer as an adjective offensive, it's not that common anymore, but there's occasionally some, especially among older folks in the LGBTQIA community. Admittedly, I still use queer as an umbrella term for the community, and a lot of people do now, though I'll avoid using it to describe others if they don't want to be referred to as such.

As a side note, it's also just "transgender" now, not "transgendered". A lot of people felt the "ed" implied that it was a verb, like it was something we did to ourselves, rather than just a descriptive adjective of an aspect of our identity. That's a more recent change of terms, so not everyone will get upset over it, but by and large the trans community has expressed that they largely prefer the change in terminology.

Didn't you forget a plus sign or something? Or was it an asterick?

[Proctopeo]

Ostroeuropa, while I don't have the stats for sexual assault in the UK on hand, in the US out of every 100 rapes committed, an estimated 5-20 are reported to police, 0.4-5.4 are prosecuted, 0.2-5.2 result in a conviction, and 0.02-2.8 result in incarceration.(Tjaden & Thoennes, 2006, p. 7) But of course, the feminist movement is an authoritarian effort to facilitate false accusations towards men, despite the fact that rapes still generally aren't reported, usually don't reach trial, seldom get a conviction, and almost never result in incarceration. Meanwhile, victims are still regularly dragged through the mud whenever they make accusations, face violence and death threats in response to their accusations, are asked questions in courtrooms about what they were wearing and their previous sexual behaviors out of assumptions that they're just "asking for it" despite rape shield laws specifically prohibiting this, and in the end tend to get absolutely nothing out of it. But of course, it's all just a conspiracy by women to see all men imprisoned, and we should just shut up about about sexual assault and rape.

I'm highly skeptical of those numbers, for two reasons. One, the study is twelve years old and most likely doesn't reflect current reality. Two, the ranges are just so damn wide.

[Threlizdun]

Ostroeuropa, while I don't have the stats for sexual assault in the UK on hand, in the US out of every 100 rapes committed, an estimated 5-20 are reported to police, 0.4-5.4 are prosecuted, 0.2-5.2 result in a conviction, and 0.02-2.8 result in incarceration.(Tjaden & Thoennes, 2006, p. 7) But of course, the feminist movement is an authoritarian effort to facilitate false accusations towards men, despite the fact that rapes still generally aren't reported, usually don't reach trial, seldom get a conviction, and almost never result in incarceration. Meanwhile, victims are still regularly dragged through the mud whenever they make accusations, face violence and death threats in response to their accusations, are asked questions in courtrooms about what they were wearing and their previous sexual behaviors out of assumptions that they're just "asking for it" despite rape shield laws specifically prohibiting this, and in the end tend to get absolutely nothing out of it. But of course, it's all just a conspiracy by women to see all men imprisoned, and we should just shut up about about sexual assault and rape.

It is a matter of fact that due process violations have been systemically occurring in the US as a result of feminist demands for campus trials. That is what the courts have found. Merely repeating the rationalizations they used to violate mens human rights doesn't justify their behavior, in fact it sounds like you're trying to support it.

So i'll ask you;

Do you support due process, and do you accept that courts have found the campus trials are violating due process, and do you accept feminism instituted those campus trials?

if yes, then why are you acting like repeating the rationalizations they used to violate human beings rights isn't apologism for human rights violations?

It's as bad as if I started rattling off terrorism stats to justify persecution of muslims and violating their rights. That's how you are behaving, and you're behaving that way because feminist ideology has blinded you to what you're engaging in.

A hate movement using a populations grievances to push for authoritarian actions is what i'm accusing it of.

You're basically using a Versailles was unfair argument and ignoring the movements ACTIONS that they get up to using those things as excuses. I'm really bored of feminists acting that way.

College campuses have astronomical levels of rape and sexual assault happening on them. They are rarely reported, and when they are, they still are rarely ever addressed by the university. When they occur, rather than criminal trials, they simply act as disciplinary trials. They rarely result in expulsion, often only result in suspension, and in many cases those suspensions were later overturned.

Universities admitting that rape is happening on their campuses risk making their schools sound dangerous, hurting registration numbers. Rapes and sexual assaults are most common amongst fraternities and athletes. Fraternities constitute over half of alumni financial contributions to schools, and athletics programs are among the principle means of raising awareness of schools, developing their brand, selling merchandise, and keeping the attention of alumni to continue donating. If a fraternity member or athlete commits a rape, it is highly unlikely anything will come about from it. If anything does, protests often occur demanding charges be dropped. Women who make accusations against athletes regularly get death threats in response. Women who report their rapes to schools are often told to remain silent or try to solve things between their rapist without involving the school. School officials have come forward stating that they are often instructed from higher ups to ignore rapes that are reported to them. School officials that actually attempt to fight against this have been fired over this.

The idea that men are being persecuted when rapes generally don't get reported and don't result in an arrest, prosecution, conviction, or punishment is absolutely ridiculous, and insulting compared to what the victims have to go through knowing that their rapist won't get punished and people won't believe them if they tell them.

[Ostroeuropa]

It is a matter of fact that due process violations have been systemically occurring in the US as a result of feminist demands for campus trials. That is what the courts have found. Merely repeating the rationalizations they used to violate mens human rights doesn't justify their behavior, in fact it sounds like you're trying to support it.

So i'll ask you;

Do you support due process, and do you accept that courts have found the campus trials are violating due process, and do you accept feminism instituted those campus trials?

if yes, then why are you acting like repeating the rationalizations they used to violate human beings rights isn't apologism for human rights violations?

It's as bad as if I started rattling off terrorism stats to justify persecution of muslims and violating their rights. That's how you are behaving, and you're behaving that way because feminist ideology has blinded you to what you're engaging in.

A hate movement using a populations grievances to push for authoritarian actions is what i'm accusing it of.

You're basically using a Versailles was unfair argument and ignoring the movements ACTIONS that they get up to using those things as excuses. I'm really bored of feminists acting that way.

College campuses have astronomical levels of rape and sexual assault happening on them. They are rarely reported, and when they are, they still are rarely ever addressed by the university. When they occur, rather than criminal trials, they simply act as disciplinary trials. They rarely result in expulsion, often only result in suspension, and in many cases those suspensions were later overturned.

Universities admitting that rape is happening on their campuses risk making their schools sound dangerous, hurting registration numbers. Rapes and sexual assaults are most common amongst fraternities and athletes. Fraternities constitute over half of alumni financial contributions to schools, and athletics programs are among the principle means of raising awareness of schools, developing their brand, selling merchandise, and keeping the attention of alumni to continue donating. If a fraternity member or athlete commits a rape, it is highly unlikely anything will come about from it. If anything does, protests often occur demanding charges be dropped. Women who make accusations against athletes regularly get death threats in response. Women who report their rapes to schools are often told to remain silent or try to solve things between their rapist without involving the school. School officials have come forward stating that they are often instructed from higher ups to ignore rapes that are reported to them. School officials that actually attempt to fight against this have been fired over this.

The idea that men are being persecuted when rapes generally don't get reported and don't result in an arrest, prosecution, conviction, or punishment is absolutely ridiculous, and insulting compared to what the victims have to go through knowing that their rapist won't get punished and people won't believe them if they tell them.

So you refused to actually engage with the point and just waffled some more about how Versailles was unfair.
What about any of what you just said is an argument against the fact that courts found the campus courts instituted by the feminist movement violated due process rights?

I'll keep asking it like Paxman if I have to. Your refusal to answer a straight question and just pull out more rationalizations for human rights abuses doesn't make you right, you know.

Additionally, you're flirting with the implication that the rape stats are disproportionately men raping women. Men have an even harder time reporting and getting their rapes dealt with, but are vilified as the primary perpetrators by the feminist movement despite close-to-equal levels of perpetration. In addition to that, feminism instituted a campus court system that targetted men and violated their rights, sometimes even expelling male rape victims.

Not only are you waffling about versailles being unfair, you're erasing mens side of the rape issue to pretend women are oppressed on it and that makes the notion of male oppression ridiculous to propose, another common feminist gaslighting tactic.

So no, it's not "Ridiculous" to view men as oppressed here. The things you cited?
They apply to male victims to, but feminism made the situation even worse for them, including the male rape victims. (As I said, there's cases of rape victims being expelled by feminist campus courts.)

You also use womens issues to act like the FACT that men WERE persecuted and had their due process rights violated is "Absolutely ridiculous.". This is what feminism does to people, by the way, for observers. These incoherent thought patterns i'm pointing out here? It's the result of indoctrination.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Queer theory is a conceptional framework for analyzing the historical construction of sexuality and gender and its relationship to positions of power within society. Talking about it within that framework is still different from calling someone "a queer". Perhaps your school is different, but I've never met queer folk who haven't objected to cishet people using queer as a noun. As for people finding queer as an adjective offensive, it's not that common anymore, but there's occasionally some, especially among older folks in the LGBTQIA community. Admittedly, I still use queer as an umbrella term for the community, and a lot of people do now, though I'll avoid using it to describe others if they don't want to be referred to as such.

Queer theory originated among academics in the LGBTQQIA community. It was originally a poststructural (Foucauldian) approach to the Lesbian and Gay Community. However, it later expanded to become a poststructural approach to issues of sex and gender in general.

As a side note, it's also just "transgender" now, not "transgendered". A lot of people felt the "ed" implied that it was a verb, like it was something we did to ourselves, rather than just a descriptive adjective of an aspect of our identity. That's a more recent change of terms, so not everyone will get upset over it, but by and large the trans community has expressed that they largely prefer the change in terminology.

It may vary from region to region. Most of my students who are Transgendered call themselves either Transgendered or Trans. I almost never hear Transgender.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

College campuses have astronomical levels of rape and sexual assault happening on them. They are rarely reported, and when they are, they still are rarely ever addressed by the university. When they occur, rather than criminal trials, they simply act as disciplinary trials. They rarely result in expulsion, often only result in suspension, and in many cases those suspensions were later overturned.

Fortunately, that is beginning to change, but I agree that the changes are insufficient.

[Threlizdun]

Ostroeuropa, while I don't have the stats for sexual assault in the UK on hand, in the US out of every 100 rapes committed, an estimated 5-20 are reported to police, 0.4-5.4 are prosecuted, 0.2-5.2 result in a conviction, and 0.02-2.8 result in incarceration.(Tjaden & Thoennes, 2006, p. 7) But of course, the feminist movement is an authoritarian effort to facilitate false accusations towards men, despite the fact that rapes still generally aren't reported, usually don't reach trial, seldom get a conviction, and almost never result in incarceration. Meanwhile, victims are still regularly dragged through the mud whenever they make accusations, face violence and death threats in response to their accusations, are asked questions in courtrooms about what they were wearing and their previous sexual behaviors out of assumptions that they're just "asking for it" despite rape shield laws specifically prohibiting this, and in the end tend to get absolutely nothing out of it. But of course, it's all just a conspiracy by women to see all men imprisoned, and we should just shut up about about sexual assault and rape.

I'm highly skeptical of those numbers, for two reasons. One, the study is twelve years old and most likely doesn't reflect current reality. Two, the ranges are just so damn wide.

Here is more recent stats. There is a wide range in the numbers because it is hard to develop concrete data for something people generally aren't reporting. Additionally, there are issues when trying to define and measure rape, as many people and organizations define rape differently (nonconsensual sexual activity vs. nonconsensual penatration of the vagina or anus vs. any form of nonconsensual sexual penetration, etc.) and confusion by reporters over whether or not what happened to them can be considered rape. Different populations are also more or less likely to report rape than others, with race, class, sex, gender, sexual orientation, immigrant status, age, and disability status all impacting reporting. Trans women, undocumented immigrants, and the elderly almost never report rapes that happen to them for example. Estimates have to be made as variables are considered and numbers adjusted to them. There is a lot that goes into this, and a lot of it tends to get overlooked. As such, how these variables are accommodated for will dramatically impact datasets.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/crimin ... ice-system
https://ocrsm.umd.edu/files/Why-Is-Sexu ... ported.pdf

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm highly skeptical of those numbers, for two reasons. One, the study is twelve years old and most likely doesn't reflect current reality. Two, the ranges are just so damn wide.

Here is more recent stats. There is a wide range in the numbers because it is hard to develop concrete data for something people generally aren't reporting. Additionally, there are issues when trying to define and measure rape, as many people and organizations define rape differently (nonconsensual sexual activity vs. nonconsensual penatration of the vagina or anus vs. any form of nonconsensual sexual penetration, etc.) and confusion by reporters over whether or not what happened to them can be considered rape. Different populations are also more or less likely to report rape than others, with race, class, sex, gender, sexual orientation, immigrant status, age, and disability status all impacting reporting. Trans women, undocumented immigrants, and the elderly almost never report rapes that happen to them for example. Estimates have to be made as variables are considered and numbers adjusted to them. There is a lot that goes into this, and a lot of it tends to get overlooked. As such, how these variables are accommodated for will dramatically impact datasets.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/crimin ... ice-system
https://ocrsm.umd.edu/files/Why-Is-Sexu ... ported.pdf

Your first link doesn't address male victims and so can't be used to argue women are oppressed on the topic relative to men, something you are explicitly relying on to dismiss criticism of your movements human rights abuses by pretending that women having legitimate issues means a movement using them as justification for abusing others is an impossibility, almost like the 20th century was something you forgot about or don't want to think about.

Your second link also doesn't present it as a womens issue at all, and doesn't specify whether the victims are male or female. (Hopefully its inclusive of both.) and so can't be used to bolster your argument. I'll be charitable and believe you didn't just up and assume the second link was talking about women when it doesn't explicitly do so.

[Threlizdun]

College campuses have astronomical levels of rape and sexual assault happening on them. They are rarely reported, and when they are, they still are rarely ever addressed by the university. When they occur, rather than criminal trials, they simply act as disciplinary trials. They rarely result in expulsion, often only result in suspension, and in many cases those suspensions were later overturned.

Universities admitting that rape is happening on their campuses risk making their schools sound dangerous, hurting registration numbers. Rapes and sexual assaults are most common amongst fraternities and athletes. Fraternities constitute over half of alumni financial contributions to schools, and athletics programs are among the principle means of raising awareness of schools, developing their brand, selling merchandise, and keeping the attention of alumni to continue donating. If a fraternity member or athlete commits a rape, it is highly unlikely anything will come about from it. If anything does, protests often occur demanding charges be dropped. Women who make accusations against athletes regularly get death threats in response. Women who report their rapes to schools are often told to remain silent or try to solve things between their rapist without involving the school. School officials have come forward stating that they are often instructed from higher ups to ignore rapes that are reported to them. School officials that actually attempt to fight against this have been fired over this.

The idea that men are being persecuted when rapes generally don't get reported and don't result in an arrest, prosecution, conviction, or punishment is absolutely ridiculous, and insulting compared to what the victims have to go through knowing that their rapist won't get punished and people won't believe them if they tell them.

So you refused to actually engage with the point and just waffled some more about how Versailles was unfair.
What about any of what you just said is an argument against the fact that courts found the campus courts instituted by the feminist movement violated due process rights?

I'll keep asking it like Paxman if I have to. Your refusal to answer a straight question and just pull out more rationalizations for human rights abuses doesn't make you right, you know.

Additionally, you're flirting with the implication that the rape stats are disproportionately men raping women. Men have an even harder time reporting and getting their rapes dealt with, but are vilified as the primary perpetrators by the feminist movement despite close-to-equal levels of perpetration. In addition to that, feminism instituted a campus court system that targetted men and violated their rights, sometimes even expelling male rape victims.

Not only are you waffling about versailles being unfair, you're erasing mens side of the rape issue to pretend women are oppressed on it and that makes the notion of male oppression ridiculous to propose, another common feminist gaslighting tactic.

So no, it's not "Ridiculous" to view men as oppressed here. The things you cited?
They apply to male victims to, but feminism made the situation even worse for them, including the male rape victims. (As I said, there's cases of rape victims being expelled by feminist campus courts.)

You also use womens issues to act like the FACT that men WERE persecuted and had their due process rights violated is "Absolutely ridiculous.". This is what feminism does to people, by the way, for observers. These incoherent thought patterns i'm pointing out here? It's the result of indoctrination.

Courts absolutely discriminate against male victims in rape cases. I am not going to deny that. My argument is not simply that courts don't take women seriously (though this not taking them seriously is part of why female rapists aren't taken seriously by them), but that our criminal justice system protects rapists, universities protect rapists, and our cultural by and large normalizes and excuses rape. Rape culture and the protection of it by our criminal justice system absolutely hurts men. Any feminist that actually bothers to examine our society for a moment understands that patriarchy hurts men as well as women and nonbinary people.

I am not trying to in any way dismiss male rape victims or the deny the reality of women rapists. I was sexually assaulted by a woman. I am far more aware than you are of how possible that is. What I am arguing against is your ridiculous idea that the criminal justice system favors women over men in rape cases when we know these cases rarely result in the men actually being punished. To argue otherwise is to ignore clear statistics. Similarly, getting angry that I am mostly talking about men in this is ignoring that yes, despite the fact that there are absolutely women and nonbinary rapists, it is overwhelmingly men committing rapes, and it is usually women who are victimized. It's not saying we can't address male victims or female or nonbinary rapists, but it is recognizing that there is absolutely a gendered dimension to this.

Again, if the system was operating how you said it was, rape cases would actually be resulting in far more convictions. Women wouldn't be so scared of reporting what happens to them.