LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Geneviev]

There's a wee bit of difference between Arabs and Muslims. Oh, and between a conquest and just radical acts of terrorism.

Israelis stole Palestine from the Palestinians. In the process, Israelis committed numerous acts of terrorism against, once again, the Palestinians.

In terms of Muslims, the vast, vast majority of victims of terrorism by Muslims are other Muslims. Similarly, the vast, vast majority of terrorism by Christians are other Christians or nominal Christians.

Terrorism is not a Muslim problem. It is a human problem and is one of the many contradictions of capitalism.

I didn't think I could fully agree with any of your posts. Thanks.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Wow. What exactly are you proposing to do with the Jews in Israel?

Personally, I think that this problem can only be resolved in an international proletarian state or collective. People, all people, should be allowed to live where they want. Still, that doesn't excuse what the Israelis did to the Palestinians.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I didn't think I could fully agree with any of your posts. Thanks.

Almost no one does. By my count, there are only three regulars here who are libertarian or left communists.

[New Emeline]

By my count, there are only three regulars here who are libertarian or left communists.

Would you classify me as one of those people?

[Chestaan]

Wow. What exactly are you proposing to do with the Jews in Israel?

That's too general. The settlers should leave, those that were there before the zionist project can stay.

I don't see how you can go on a huge anti-ethnic cleansing rant, and then advocate the exact same thing against another group... Generations of Jews born to the settlers or their parents have grown up in Israel. Why should they be removed from the only home they have ever known? You can argue that the original settling was wrong, even within the UN parameters, but those that came to Israel as part of that settlement are mostly dead. Yyou would be punishing people who had nothing to do with the original move.

I bet you believe in open borders as well?

[Chestaan]

Wow. What exactly are you proposing to do with the Jews in Israel?

Personally, I think that this problem can only be resolved in an international proletarian state or collective. People, all people, should be allowed to live where they want. Still, that doesn't excuse what the Israelis did to the Palestinians.

I agree. And yes, what the Israelis did was unjustifiable, but the answer to that certainly isn't to do pretty much the same thing back to them. What Merizoc is advocating, by saying they must leave or "suffer the consequences" is thinly veiled mass slaughter. And how anyone, most of all a leftist, can call for such a thing is beyond me.

[Cekoviu]

I didn't think I could fully agree with any of your posts. Thanks.

Almost no one does. By my count, there are only three regulars here who are libertarian or left communists.

Mate, even the libertarian communists here find some of your views objectionable.

[Proctopeo]

There's a wee bit of difference between Arabs and Muslims. Oh, and between a conquest and just radical acts of terrorism.

Israelis stole Palestine from the Palestinians.

This is a poor grasp of history, but I guess you don't need to understand the 20th century to get a sociology degree.
What actually happened? In the aftermath of World War I, the Ottoman Empire was on the brink of collapse, and the two major empires who fought them wanted pieces of the pie. France took Syria and Lebanon, while the United Kingdom took Mandatory Palestine, Transjordan, and Iraq. Following World War II, a United Nations declaration divided the British colony of Mandatory Palestine between Israel, Palestine, and a UN neutral zone covering most important religious sites. A civil war followed, in which Israel came out on top, despite fighting other neighboring Arab countries in the war, too.

Prior to even the fall of the Ottomans, rising antisemitism in Europe prompted many Jewish people to move to the Palestine region, which is why Israel was created in the first place.

In the process, Israelis committed numerous acts of terrorism against, once again, the Palestinians.

And the Palestinians committed numerous acts of terrorism against the Israelis, what's your point?

Terrorism is not a Muslim problem. It is a human problem and is one of the many contradictions of capitalism.

Hottest take of the decade right here. I'll get some water so you can cool it down to something that makes sense, okay?

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I agree. And yes, what the Israelis did was unjustifiable, but the answer to that certainly isn't to do pretty much the same thing back to them. What Merizoc is advocating, by saying they must leave or "suffer the consequences" is thinly veiled mass slaughter. And how anyone, most of all a leftist, can call for such a thing is beyond me.

Well, many Muslims and Christian Palestinians are understandably angry at Israel. Injustice hurts. Here is a portion of one of my essays on this subject:

Concerning nationalism, a sovereign Israel (Hebrew, יִשְׂרָאֵל, Yiśərāʾēl), nor a sovereign anywhere, ought not exist. Nationalism is a social problem. All countries must coalesce into an international proletarian democracy. The majority of Jewish Zionists I have known over the years are nationalists and pro–colonialists, not Jewish supremacists. That distinction goes largely to Christian Zionists. Geopolitics, not religion, is the main factor in colonialism, and most Jews firmly reject the chosen people narrative. Practically, though not legally, American Zionists are dual nationals. Americanism—Pax Americana and the Monroe Doctrine—and Zionism are, taken together, the two most oppressive nationalisms in today’s world.

In supporting Israel, and in relocating the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv (Hebrew, תֵּל אָבִיב, Tēl ʾĀḇiyḇ) to Jerusalem (Hebrew, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, Yərūšālạyim), is Trump a religious supremacist? Certainly not. Indeed, if Trump has any religion at all, it is self–worship. One might contend that he has been influenced, at least to an extent, by his son–in–law Jared Kushner, who was born into an Orthodox Jewish family, and by Trump’s daughter Ivanka, who converted to Orthodox Judaism in order to become Kushner’s wife. However, Trump himself is primarily working to enhance his power and to receive accolades. He is neither a Christian nor a Christian Zionist. He is not even functioning well in his job, but that is an unrelated issue.

The Jews in Israel need not return to the lands of their forebears—contradicting the very spirit of communist internationalism. People should be free to reside anywhere. Immigration, passports, and visas must be tossed into the dustbin of history. They are not the causal mechanisms of unity or copresence but of disunity or demireality. Nevertheless, remaking the world does not wipe away past misdeeds. Jews stole Palestine (Arabic, فِلَسْطِين, Filas°ṭīn). In the process, many Jews committed acts of terrorism. For a people who survived the Jewish Holocaust, such behavior is baffling. Now, Israel unjustly keeps Palestinians (Arabic, فِلَسْطِينِيِّينَ, Filas°ṭīniyyīna) in prison cities reminiscent of the Jews held in Nazi death camps.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Mate, even the libertarian communists here find some of your views objectionable.

I know. As I have said before, I am proudly an extremist. The older I get, the more extreme my views seem to become. It is a part of my character I don't want to change.

[Geneviev]

I didn't think I could fully agree with any of your posts. Thanks.

Almost no one does. By my count, there are only three regulars here who are libertarian or left communists.

But pro-Palestine. I can't disagree with that.

[Genivaria]

I didn't think I could fully agree with any of your posts. Thanks.

Almost no one does. By my count, there are only three regulars here who are libertarian or left communists.

Uh what am I chopped liver?

[West Leas Oros]

Almost no one does. By my count, there are only three regulars here who are libertarian or left communists.

Uh what am I chopped liver?

I don’t know. I’m not relevant enough to even be considered a regular, apparently.

[Cekoviu]

Uh what am I chopped liver?

I don’t know. I’m not relevant enough to even be considered a regular, apparently.

you aren't a libertarian :^)

[West Leas Oros]

I don’t know. I’m not relevant enough to even be considered a regular, apparently.

you aren't a libertarian :^)

Me? Or Genivaria? I’d certainly call myself a libertarian, as I value personal liberty and high freedom.

[Cekoviu]

you aren't a libertarian :^)

Me? Or Genivaria? I’d certainly call myself a libertarian, as I value personal liberty and high freedom.

one's label does not always accurately describe them

[Genivaria]

you aren't a libertarian :^)

Me? Or Genivaria? I’d certainly call myself a libertarian, as I value personal liberty and high freedom.

Oh I'm definitely left-libertarian on the spectrum.

[West Leas Oros]

Me? Or Genivaria? I’d certainly call myself a libertarian, as I value personal liberty and high freedom.

one's label does not always accurately describe them

That’s right, I forgot that even though I support individual liberty, it’s negated by the fact I’m an evil fascist reactionary bigot. :^)

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

But pro-Palestine. I can't disagree with that.

I am pro-Palestine, but I am also an internationalist. I have no objection to the so-called two-state solution, as long as those two states are members of a global federation.

[Geneviev]

But pro-Palestine. I can't disagree with that.

I am pro-Palestine, but I am also an internationalist. I have no objection to the so-called two-state solution, as long as those two states are members of a global federation.

The global federation can wait. First, people should find a two-state solution that both sides agree with.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Me? Or Genivaria? I’d certainly call myself a libertarian, as I value personal liberty and high freedom.

In the U.S., when people think of libertarians, they think of Ron Paul (right-libertarians) and the CATO Institute. In most of the rest of the world, libertarians tend more to be communists or socialists. That confusion seems to arise over and over again, especially among newbies to this thread.

For instance, when I tell my students that I despise Ron Paul's politics, they are puzzled how I can be libertarian. I then go into a slow and careful explanation for them. Usually, they get it.

[Cekoviu]

one's label does not always accurately describe them

That’s right, I forgot that even though I support individual liberty, it’s negated by the fact I’m an evil fascist reactionary bigot. :^)

Aaaaaaand there it is. Took longer than I expected, tbh.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

That’s right, I forgot that even though I support individual liberty, it’s negated by the fact I’m an evil fascist reactionary bigot. :^)

Why would someone call you that?

[Cekoviu]

That’s right, I forgot that even though I support individual liberty, it’s negated by the fact I’m an evil fascist reactionary bigot. :^)

Why would someone call you that?

Nobody has, he just likes pretending to be a victim of the essjay.

[West Leas Oros]

Why would someone call you that?

Nobody has, he just likes pretending to be a victim of the essjay.

Tell that to many of our forgotten comrades, under the heel of capitalism, who are suddenly the enemy for being white men. Thanks for the solidarity! :^)