LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[New Emeline]

Why don't we combine communism/socialism with capitalism, then we can all be happy!

How would you even do that?

[Arbeitersrepublik]

But why does everybody insist on a "blue wave" in this midterm election?

For the same reasons they wouldn't shut the fuck up with the triumphalist nonsense during the Clinton primary and campaign, they don't like Trump and the media is full of hacks who are in hoc to the status quo.

This is an act, Trump *IS* the establishment, so is Clinton. I would wager that Bernie + time + power = establishment too.

[Liriena]

Or it`s the tribalistic and polarizing nature of the election campaigns. Especially in the age of social media

Doesn't line up with the figures.

Millenials are heavily socialist according to polls, but the Democrats have lost about 10 points with them over the last year due to Millenial Whites deciding to back the republicans en masse. This hasn't occured with Millenial Racial Minorities, and White Male Millenials are most likely to back the republicans.

It's enough to have put the Democrats at risk of losing the mid terms.

Democrats: snapping defeat from the jaws of victory since forever

I do think you're being a bit too unilateral about the causes of the racial divide in voting, though, and placing too much responsibility for it on the progressive left.

[Ostroeuropa]

Why don't we combine communism/socialism with capitalism, then we can all be happy!

Syndicalism.
That thing you're looking for?

It's Syndicalism.

[Firaxin]

Or it`s the tribalistic and polarizing nature of the election campaigns. Especially in the age of social media

It seems these days people only care about "triggering le libtards" or "smashing le russkie republicans".
This tribalism is encouraged to keep the working class divided. This pattern started with Obama, establishment vs "populist". It was Obama that was the populist, and MCcain was the establishment, now it has flipped. This act will keep America capitalist for at least the next generation.

I don't think this is a big orchestrated conspiracy by the bourgeoisie my dude.

[Arbeitersrepublik]

Why don't we combine communism/socialism with capitalism, then we can all be happy!

How would you even do that?

Just ask China.

[Pilarcraft]

Or it`s the tribalistic and polarizing nature of the election campaigns. Especially in the age of social media

It seems these days people only care about "triggering le libtards" or "smashing le russkie republicans".
This tribalism is encouraged to keep the working class divided. This pattern started with Obama, establishment vs "populist". It was Obama that was the populist, and MCcain was the establishment, now it has flipped. This act will keep America capitalist for at least the next generation.

Honestly tho, a socialist revolution in the United States is almost definitely not going to happen. Much as I hate admitting it, the only hope Socialism and the Left as a whole has in changing the US is within the system. The fact is that even though the generation which will be in charge in a few years is, undeniably, more left-wing than those before us (except for maybe the generation that lived through the great depression), the best we can hope for is for socialists to get into the legislature and the executive branches and commit change from then. The Idea that the US will "stop being capitalist by the next generation" is idealist at best.

[Jackania yugo]

Why don't we combine communism/socialism with capitalism, then we can all be happy!

How would you even do that?

So basically the medium-high middle and upper classes will work like capitalism (with a focus on the individuals, meaning a higher standard of living), while the lower middle class and the workers/economic work like communism/socialism.

Either that or mixed economy.

[Ostroeuropa]

Doesn't line up with the figures.

Millenials are heavily socialist according to polls, but the Democrats have lost about 10 points with them over the last year due to Millenial Whites deciding to back the republicans en masse. This hasn't occured with Millenial Racial Minorities, and White Male Millenials are most likely to back the republicans.

It's enough to have put the Democrats at risk of losing the mid terms.

Democrats: snapping defeat from the jaws of victory since forever

I do think you're being a bit too unilateral about the causes of the racial divide in voting, though, and placing too much responsibility for it on the progressive left.

I don't. I think it's pretty obvious. It's not like the media is actively shilling for republican party racism that'll bring whites over to it. It is, however, shilling for progressive racism and sexism and making it obvious that's what the democrats stand for. When you factor in their lack of actual economic policy, it's basically all they are, a vote for misandry and anti-white racism.

hence, republicanism.

[Liriena]

Doesn't line up with the figures.

Millenials are heavily socialist according to polls, but the Democrats have lost about 10 points with them over the last year due to Millenial Whites deciding to back the republicans en masse. This hasn't occured with Millenial Racial Minorities, and White Male Millenials are most likely to back the republicans.

It's enough to have put the Democrats at risk of losing the mid terms.

But why does everybody insist on a "blue wave" in this midterm election?

Well, the elections held so far mostly showed a very sizeable shift in the Democrats' favour, one that made them getting a majority in the House a strong possibility. The problem, I think, is that the Democratic leadership has no idea of how to capitalize on the advantage, even with Republicans repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot with awful candidates and awful policies. And what's worse, the Democratic establishment seems intent on undermining the party's left-wing even as it continues to show a lot of success. The DSA have been making gains, but the centrists are still scared of their own shadows.

[Irou]

How would you even do that?

So basically the medium-high middle and upper classes will work like capitalism (with a focus on the individuals, meaning a higher standard of living), while the lower middle class and the workers/economic work like communism/socialism.

That's syndicalism simplified

[Firaxin]

How would you even do that?

So basically the medium-high middle and upper classes will work like capitalism (with a focus on the individuals, meaning a higher standard of living), while the lower middle class and the workers/economic work like communism/socialism.

Either that or mixed economy.

Well that prevents the lower class from reaching the higher classes and traps anyone who falls from the above, restricting power. I'll stick with my State Socialism.

[West Leas Oros]

What are we talking about comrades?

[Liriena]

Democrats: snapping defeat from the jaws of victory since forever

I do think you're being a bit too unilateral about the causes of the racial divide in voting, though, and placing too much responsibility for it on the progressive left.

I don't. I think it's pretty obvious. It's not like the media is actively shilling for republican party racism that'll bring whites over to it.

Fox News and the Sinclair Broadcast Group are very influential, and that's without counting other billionaire-funded entities like TPUSA and Breitbart. We're talking about a massive right-wing media system that has been manufacturing ethnic and cultural resentment for years.

The whole "war on Christmas" shtick, the Ebola fearmongering, "ISIS at the Mexican border", hours upon hours of stoking fears over BLM, hosts building entire racist segments over minor cherry picked stories...

You are oversimplifying the issue by arguing that the racial divide is completely based on justified, legitimate sentiments.

[Ostroeuropa]

I don't. I think it's pretty obvious. It's not like the media is actively shilling for republican party racism that'll bring whites over to it.

Fox News and the Sinclair Broadcast Group are very influential, and that's without counting other billionaire-funded entities like TPUSA and Breitbart. We're talking about a massive right-wing media system that has been manufacturing ethnic and cultural resentment for years.

The whole "war on Christmas" shtick, the Ebola fearmongering, "ISIS at the Mexican border", hours upon hours of stoking fears over BLM, hosts building entire racist segments over minor cherry picked stories...

You are oversimplifying the issue by arguing that the racial divide is completely based on justified, legitimate sentiments.

Hours and hours on how the republican party was actively socialistic would fall on deaf ears because of how incoherent that would be and how it doesn't align with reality.

Does the media peddle bullshit? Absolutely. But it only works because of the kernel of truth at the core of the stories, that the democratic party and many left wingers are misandrists and anti-white in rhetoric and often policy too.
It's not a coincidence that males skew republican too.

Additionally, if we're noting the media's nonsense on this, why don't we discuss how the media peddles nonsense examples of sexism against women and racism against minorities?

It's no different there.

Media alternatives like breitbart arose specifically because of the prevalence of progressive identity politics, misandry, and anti-white racism in the media, with only really Fox avoiding it. (Fox, to their credit, are the only major news network in the US that did a months segment on mens issues and didn't waffle about how it's their own fault for being sexists.)

You keep trying to avoid responsibility for it.

This is not something the right wing has been doing very long, actively shilling for the notion that misandry/anti-white racism is prevalent. They can do it because it's true.

Islamophilia too.

[Conserative Morality]

Fox News and the Sinclair Broadcast Group are very influential, and that's without counting other billionaire-funded entities like TPUSA and Breitbart. We're talking about a massive right-wing media system that has been manufacturing ethnic and cultural resentment for years.

The whole "war on Christmas" shtick, the Ebola fearmongering, "ISIS at the Mexican border", hours upon hours of stoking fears over BLM, hosts building entire racist segments over minor cherry picked stories...

You are oversimplifying the issue by arguing that the racial divide is completely based on justified, legitimate sentiments.

Hours and hours on how the republican party was actively socialistic would fall on deaf ears because of how incoherent that would be and how it doesn't align with reality.

Does the media peddle bullshit? Absolutely. But it only works because of the kernel of truth at the core of the stories, that the democratic party and many left wingers are misandrists and anti-white in rhetoric and often policy too.
It's not a coincidence that males skew republican too.

Additionally, if we're noting the media's nonsense on this, why don't we discuss how the media peddles nonsense examples of sexism against women and racism against minorities?

It's no different there.

Media alternatives like breitbart arose specifically because of the prevalence of progressive identity politics, misandry, and anti-white racism in the media, with only really Fox avoiding it. (Fox, to their credit, are the only major news network in the US that did a months segment on mens issues and didn't waffle about how it's their own fault for being sexists.)

You keep trying to avoid responsibility for it.

This is not something the right wing has been doing very long, actively shilling for the notion that misandry/anti-white racism is prevalent. They can do it because it's true.

"It only works because it's true at the core"

"The media peddles bullshit people believe about sexism against women and racism against minorities! What nonsense!"

:thonk:

[Ostroeuropa]

Hours and hours on how the republican party was actively socialistic would fall on deaf ears because of how incoherent that would be and how it doesn't align with reality.

Does the media peddle bullshit? Absolutely. But it only works because of the kernel of truth at the core of the stories, that the democratic party and many left wingers are misandrists and anti-white in rhetoric and often policy too.
It's not a coincidence that males skew republican too.

Additionally, if we're noting the media's nonsense on this, why don't we discuss how the media peddles nonsense examples of sexism against women and racism against minorities?

It's no different there.

Media alternatives like breitbart arose specifically because of the prevalence of progressive identity politics, misandry, and anti-white racism in the media, with only really Fox avoiding it. (Fox, to their credit, are the only major news network in the US that did a months segment on mens issues and didn't waffle about how it's their own fault for being sexists.)

You keep trying to avoid responsibility for it.

This is not something the right wing has been doing very long, actively shilling for the notion that misandry/anti-white racism is prevalent. They can do it because it's true.

"It only works because it's true at the core"

"The media peddles bullshit people believe about sexism against women and racism against minorities! What nonsense!"

:thonk:

You appear to have not understood my point, and nowhere did I say sexism against women and racism against minorities wasn't at some level true also. Especially in the US, with the republican party in full swing.

So sorry, your gotcha relies on assuming things that aren't in the post.

[Dumb Ideologies]

One of the main issues that stops me fully aligning with socialism is the near-complete cessation of economic activity that would occur during a not-insubstantial transition period.

We rely heavily on very complicated just-in-time supply systems these days and with the overthrow of ownership the supply chain would be thrown into chaos as workers tried to establish how to get it moving again and supply sources from abroad dried up completely as companies would turn off the supply tap to those that were no longer under their ownership.

The practicalities of getting the economy moving again would, even if you're eventually advocating (as I would) market socialism, require huge state intervention and a necessarily authoritarian stance that could very easily set the standard. People would panic and loot to ensure they could feed their families, and with basic utilities such as electricity and water possibly offline as well there would likely be many deaths among the weak in the intermediary chaos.

Convince me I'm wrong. Ideologically I can believe that the end system would be better, but the getting there? Not in my lifetime, please. And so I must support social democracy and only the nationalisation of key infrastructure, an institutional say for workers, government support for worker-run businesses, and the transfer of failed businesses (once made profitable) to workers. Realistically that ends with a moderate mixed economy, not socialism.

[Liriena]

Hours and hours on how the republican party was actively socialistic would fall on deaf ears because of how incoherent that would be and how it doesn't align with reality.

Does the media peddle bullshit? Absolutely. But it only works because of the kernel of truth at the core of the stories, that the democratic party and many left wingers are misandrists and anti-white in rhetoric and often policy too.
It's not a coincidence that males skew republican too.

Additionally, if we're noting the media's nonsense on this, why don't we discuss how the media peddles nonsense examples of sexism against women and racism against minorities?

It's no different there.

Media alternatives like breitbart arose specifically because of the prevalence of progressive identity politics, misandry, and anti-white racism in the media, with only really Fox avoiding it. (Fox, to their credit, are the only major news network in the US that did a months segment on mens issues and didn't waffle about how it's their own fault for being sexists.)

You keep trying to avoid responsibility for it.

This is not something the right wing has been doing very long, actively shilling for the notion that misandry/anti-white racism is prevalent. They can do it because it's true.

"It only works because it's true at the core"

"The media peddles bullshit people believe about sexism against women and racism against minorities! What nonsense!"

:thonk:

I wonder if Ostro ever thought of applying the same logic to "misandrists" and "anti-white racists". Maybe people hate white men for good reasons? Maybe progressive identity politics are right and white men deserve, at the core, to be the target of misandry and racism?

[West Leas Oros]

"It only works because it's true at the core"

"The media peddles bullshit people believe about sexism against women and racism against minorities! What nonsense!"

:thonk:

I wonder if Ostro ever thought of applying the same logic to "misandrists" and "anti-white racists". Maybe people hate white men for good reasons?

Because white men are evil by nature, and should be gulaged.

[Conserative Morality]

I wonder if Ostro ever thought of applying the same logic to "misandrists" and "anti-white racists". Maybe people hate white men for good reasons? Maybe progressive identity politics are right and white men deserve, at the core, to be the target of misandry and racism?

MRAs are unfairly maligned, but feminist bitches get what they deserve.

[Pilarcraft]

I wonder if Ostro ever thought of applying the same logic to "misandrists" and "anti-white racists". Maybe people hate white men for good reasons?

Because white men are evil by nature, and should be gulaged.

That Strawman works better as a scarecrow, buddy.

[Irou]

I wonder if Ostro ever thought of applying the same logic to "misandrists" and "anti-white racists". Maybe people hate white men for good reasons?

Because white men are evil by nature, and should be gulaged.

ok

[West Leas Oros]

Because white men are evil by nature, and should be gulaged.

That Strawman works better as a scarecrow, buddy.

No, I mean it. They should be killed.

[Liriena]

Fox News and the Sinclair Broadcast Group are very influential, and that's without counting other billionaire-funded entities like TPUSA and Breitbart. We're talking about a massive right-wing media system that has been manufacturing ethnic and cultural resentment for years.

The whole "war on Christmas" shtick, the Ebola fearmongering, "ISIS at the Mexican border", hours upon hours of stoking fears over BLM, hosts building entire racist segments over minor cherry picked stories...

You are oversimplifying the issue by arguing that the racial divide is completely based on justified, legitimate sentiments.

Hours and hours on how the republican party was actively socialistic would fall on deaf ears because of how incoherent that would be and how it doesn't align with reality.

Does the media peddle bullshit? Absolutely. But it only works because of the kernel of truth at the core of the stories, that the democratic party and many left wingers are misandrists and anti-white in rhetoric and often policy too.
It's not a coincidence that males skew republican too.

Additionally, if we're noting the media's nonsense on this, why don't we discuss how the media peddles nonsense examples of sexism against women and racism against minorities?

It's no different there.

Media alternatives like breitbart arose specifically because of the prevalence of progressive identity politics, misandry, and anti-white racism in the media, with only really Fox avoiding it. (Fox, to their credit, are the only major news network in the US that did a months segment on mens issues and didn't waffle about how it's their own fault for being sexists.)

You keep trying to avoid responsibility for it.

This is not something the right wing has been doing very long, actively shilling for the notion that misandry/anti-white racism is prevalent. They can do it because it's true.

Islamophilia too.

And you keep pushing all of the responsibility on us and acting like there's no way white men could ever embrace racism and misogyny for fundamentally wrong reasons.