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LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Favorite Left Wing Novelist or Playwright

George Orwell
141
63%
Leo Tolstoy
28
13%
Maxim Gorky
4
2%
Oscar Wilde
17
8%
John Sommerfield
1
0%
Nikolay Ostrovsky
3
1%
Andrei Bely
1
0%
John Steinbeck
22
10%
Arthur Miller
6
3%
 
Total votes : 223

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Great Minarchistan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5953
Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Minarchistan » Fri May 18, 2018 2:17 am

Crysuko wrote:Add another reason why I despise neoliberals. Along with the smug sense of "just stop being poor" they carry around with them like a putrid aura. They are the embodiment of the decay society experiences, and I could not hate it more if I tried.

Did you just call me a neoliberal? :thronking:
Awarded for Best Capitalist in 2018 NSG Awards ;')
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Fmr. libertarian, irredeemable bank shill and somewhere inbetween classical liberalism and neoliberalism // Political Compass: +8.75 Economic, -2.25 Social (May 2019)

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Mattopilos II
Minister
 
Posts: 2596
Founded: Feb 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Mattopilos II » Fri May 18, 2018 2:20 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Add another reason why I despise neoliberals. Along with the smug sense of "just stop being poor" they carry around with them like a putrid aura. They are the embodiment of the decay society experiences, and I could not hate it more if I tried.

Did you just call me a neoliberal? :thronking:


I mean, your economic outlooks are similar.
Anarchist without adjectives, Post-Leftist, Anti-theist, STEM major.
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner
“The victory of a moral ideal is achieved by the same ‘immoral’ means as every victory: force, lies, slander, injustice.” - Nietzsche
“Our duties - are the rights of others over us.” - Nietzsche

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Rostavykhan
Minister
 
Posts: 2184
Founded: Sep 30, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Fri May 18, 2018 2:22 am

Jelmatt wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's okay that you want to inflict suffering on me and the people I love because you're polite when you're talking to me!"

No.


. . . I never said her political views were OK.

I might just be overly cautious about condemning someone based on their politics from living in a state surrounded by hard-right conservatives and the occasional casual white supremacist and sort of just having to shut up and accept that everyone's political views will be diametrically opposite mine. Added to this is the fact that I never engaged with Aillyria that much and never really knew her or her politics that well, and--despite being willing to debate on the internet--I'm actually pretty non-confrontational overall. In the end, it's really hard for me to come to actively dislike a person I only know online on the basis of their political views alone.



This.

I might disagree with what someone like, say, TEM or Aelex say much of the time, but it doesn't means I dislike them (I like both of them, actually.)

Also doesn't mean I dislike Matto/Torocca/anyone else on NSG with differing views, no matter how snarky I might act. I tend to separate online from RL anyways, and at the end of the day, this is a site for people to voice unpopular or unorthodox opinions and bicker anyways, so I don't really care.

TBH I didn't have much issue with Allyria at all, and I find the use of a throwaway to report her pretty petty and, frankly, retarded.

Kvatchdom wrote:
I agree, minimum wage is a band-aid for countries where neoliberalism has eroded unions useless.


Also agree.
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Great Minarchistan
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Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Minarchistan » Fri May 18, 2018 2:29 am

Mattopilos II wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:Did you just call me a neoliberal? :thronking:


I mean, your economic outlooks are similar.

No, they aren't. Neoliberalism is such an overused word that apparently everyone to the right of center is a neoliberal.
Awarded for Best Capitalist in 2018 NSG Awards ;')
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Fmr. libertarian, irredeemable bank shill and somewhere inbetween classical liberalism and neoliberalism // Political Compass: +8.75 Economic, -2.25 Social (May 2019)

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Mattopilos II
Minister
 
Posts: 2596
Founded: Feb 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Mattopilos II » Fri May 18, 2018 3:18 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Mattopilos II wrote:
I mean, your economic outlooks are similar.

No, they aren't. Neoliberalism is such an overused word that apparently everyone to the right of center is a neoliberal.


I use it to mean a revitalization of the classical liberal ideal, especially in American politics.
Anarchist without adjectives, Post-Leftist, Anti-theist, STEM major.
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner
“The victory of a moral ideal is achieved by the same ‘immoral’ means as every victory: force, lies, slander, injustice.” - Nietzsche
“Our duties - are the rights of others over us.” - Nietzsche

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri May 18, 2018 5:11 am

Mattopilos II wrote:
Jelmatt wrote:
Your views were terrible from my standpoint, but you personally didn't seem to be all that bad... have fun away from NSG, it's probably healthier for you anyway.


> Views are terrible
> Person not all that bad

you think they aren't tied lol

They are not tied all that much. Other than skull-crushing totalitarians and genocidal Fascists probably not being the nicest people in the world, I don't think politics is the best method for determining how good a person is.
Last edited by The Xenopolis Confederation on Fri May 18, 2018 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Fri May 18, 2018 5:13 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Mattopilos II wrote:
> Views are terrible
> Person not all that bad

you think they aren't tied lol

They not tied all that much. Other than skull-crushing totalitarians and genocidal Fascists probably not being the nicest people in the world, I don't think politics is the best method for determining how good a person is.

You my friend don’t understand the principles of absolutist thinking. :^)
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8437
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri May 18, 2018 5:14 am

MERIZoC wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:You prefer the line?

Politics can't be quantified.

Then why call someone left or right at all?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm a 21 year old Australian. Liberalism with a dash of lolbert. I don't do as much research as I should.

I'm a MTF transgender person, so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45248
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri May 18, 2018 5:18 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Politics can't be quantified.

Then why call someone left or right at all?


Without categories, man cannot meme. Both body and mind atrophy when such basic needs are left unmet.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Fri May 18, 2018 5:26 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Then why call someone left or right at all?


Without categories, man cannot meme. Both body and mind atrophy when such basic needs are left unmet.

How many layers of memery are you on right now?
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57886
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri May 18, 2018 6:44 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
New Emeline wrote:The two aren't mutually exclusive. Which is probably the point you're trying to make.


Being a monster and being a person (at least by a technicality) are not mutually exclusive.


I'm not a fan of the term being used to describe people, it seems to be trying to avoid the fact that the negative actions are human ones and distort our view of the species. They weren't anything more or less than human.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Jackania yugo
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Posts: 1239
Founded: May 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Jackania yugo » Fri May 18, 2018 7:50 am

Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?
This nation a funsion between capitalism and social democracy (the only type of socialism made to actually be incorporated into capitalist governments rather than trying to destroy it).

This nation is PMT/FT. Sometimes modern tech.

We sometimes use pokemorphs and digimon in our armed forces. Sometimes

We are technically centrist.

This nation is a reunited Yugoslavia (and also sometimes controls the UK as well).

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Posts: 5295
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Fri May 18, 2018 7:52 am

Torrocca wrote:I'm pretty sure New Em and you are saying the same thing. :c


Indeed.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Fri May 18, 2018 7:54 am

West Leas Oros wrote:I always believed that deep down, anyone can change. But I’m optimistic like that.


I have seen people change, sometimes almost completely. However, I also believe that people must be dealt with in real time.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
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You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
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Firaxin
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Founded: Sep 28, 2017
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Postby Firaxin » Fri May 18, 2018 7:59 am

Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?

Could you clarify? Are you accusing all of us liking idpol or saying that we don't.

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Fri May 18, 2018 8:02 am

Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?


If identity politics can be used as a tactic to bring about revolution, I love it. Otherwise, I couldn't care less about politicizing identity.
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third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
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Jackania yugo
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Founded: May 22, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Jackania yugo » Fri May 18, 2018 8:11 am

Firaxin wrote:
Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?

Could you clarify? Are you accusing all of us liking idpol or saying that we don't.


Sorry, should of been specific, I meant cekviou appears to like Idpol.
This nation a funsion between capitalism and social democracy (the only type of socialism made to actually be incorporated into capitalist governments rather than trying to destroy it).

This nation is PMT/FT. Sometimes modern tech.

We sometimes use pokemorphs and digimon in our armed forces. Sometimes

We are technically centrist.

This nation is a reunited Yugoslavia (and also sometimes controls the UK as well).

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri May 18, 2018 9:00 am

Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?


It may surprise some given my other views, but I personally believe the memey hatred for identity politics to be largely based on wrongful conflations. It is not a necessary feature of identity politics for it to be intertwined with culture war cultism, oversensitivity, or the fanatical censors that pollute both sides of the spectrum. Particular forms of it have been infected by these things, for certain, but to write off the politics of identity is to in effect, throw legitimate rights movements and, indeed, class struggle, out of the window.

Does not all politics have both material and identity elements - politics being the study of who gets what, where and how? Put simply, people are moved to action and unite around things because leaders make calls to their group memberships and they recognise themselves and what they believe to be their interests in the call. Idpol shorthand as a snarl is fairly nonsensical.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Fri May 18, 2018 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

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Arbeitersrepublik
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Founded: Apr 14, 2018
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Postby Arbeitersrepublik » Fri May 18, 2018 9:11 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?


It may surprise some given my other views, but I personally believe the memey hatred for identity politics to be largely based on wrongful conflations. It is not a necessary feature of identity politics for it to be intertwined with culture war cultism, oversensitivity, or the fanatical censors that pollute both sides of the spectrum. Particular forms of it have been infected by these things, for certain, but to write off the politics of identity is to in effect, throw legitimate rights movements and, indeed, class struggle, out of the window.

Does not all politics have both material and identity elements - politics being the study of who gets what, where and how? The idpol shorthand as a snarl is fairly nonsensical.

I do idpol because it triggers le conservaturds EPIC STYLE XD
But in all seriousness, there are other things to talk about than mindless identity politics.
Last edited by Arbeitersrepublik on Fri May 18, 2018 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Fri May 18, 2018 9:12 am

Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?

I certainly don’t. And I know, someone’s going to say “But class is an identity!”, but I mean, idpol is usually not used to promote rights for a certain group, but rather to vilify and hate on groups that are oppressive/inferior/etc. I don’t hate the bourgeoisie for existing, and I don’t want to kill them or anything, but they should be made responsible for the shit they cause the rest of us.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Bienenhalde
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Posts: 5987
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Fri May 18, 2018 9:27 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote: Idpol shorthand as a snarl is fairly nonsensical.


Better than the term "Social Justice Warrior". I think the latter sounds too complementary.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri May 18, 2018 9:28 am

Jackania yugo wrote:Why do people like idpol? I thought you were leftists?

Dude, I like you, but you really need to put more meat on your questions. This one is extremely broad and simplistic.

Why do people "like" identity politics? Some people on the left believe that identity politics are the more practical way to identify and tackle the various injustices we face in human society. So what they do is delineate the specificities of every socially constructed category and essentially turn every category into its own movement. The problem that identity politics can and often does run into, and has been observed by both more orthodox leftists and post-modern leftists, is that the use of socially constructed categories to tackle injustices may be counter-productive because those same categories are arguably founded and structured around said injustices. This is why some radical feminists, for instance, advocate for outright gender abolitionism (and often clash with trans activists over issues of gender essentialism).
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Fri May 18, 2018 9:29 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote: Idpol shorthand as a snarl is fairly nonsensical.


Better than the term "Social Justice Warrior". I think the latter sounds too complementary.

I prefer "Social Justice Knight-Enchanter". We get the Spirit Blade skill, which is absolutely awesome.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Pilarcraft
Senator
 
Posts: 3826
Founded: Dec 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Pilarcraft » Fri May 18, 2018 9:30 am

Liriena wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
Better than the term "Social Justice Warrior". I think the latter sounds too complementary.

I prefer "Social Justice Knight-Enchanter". We get the Spirit Blade skill, which is absolutely awesome.

Social Justice Paladin-Healer or Social Justice Warlock-Nightblade for me
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West Leas Oros
Minister
 
Posts: 2597
Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Fri May 18, 2018 9:32 am

Liriena wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
Better than the term "Social Justice Warrior". I think the latter sounds too complementary.

I prefer "Social Justice Knight-Enchanter". We get the Spirit Blade skill, which is absolutely awesome.

I’m a chaotic good, economic justice multi-class rogue and bard, with an extra 2d6 sneak attack damage.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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