LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Torrocca]

No Gods, no Masters, tyvm. Just free people liberated from the corrupt chains of Capitalism.

Oh yes, the liberation of people into an impoverished and chaos-ridden system that was practiced by CNT-FAI.

>TFW Catalonia had the strongest industrial base in all of Spain

You pretend those investments are altruistic when really we both know it's for them to profit even more.

Never pretended those investments were altruistic, quote me saying so.

It's implied. :^)

[Great Minarchistan]

>TFW Catalonia had the strongest industrial base in all of Spain

Pre-established conditions aren't a merit of CNT-FAI.

It's implied. :^)

No, it isn't. I quote Adam Smith:
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

[Torrocca]

>TFW Catalonia had the strongest industrial base in all of Spain

Pre-established conditions aren't a merit of CNT-FAI.

They got stronger with the revolution, actually. :^)

Also, way to go ignoring the whole fact that there was literally a civil war going on when the revolution happened lmao, but yeah, Anarchism is just c h a o s alright /s

It's implied. :^)

No, it isn't. I quote Adam Smith:
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

A reminder that Smith would be appalled by the current system in place and even more so by Libertarianism.

[Liriena]

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

If that were true, no capitalist society would simultaneously have extreme wealth and poverty. Jeff Bezos' selfish greed would not translate into him hoarding obscene amounts of wealth while his workers (and much of the nation, for that matter) live on the edge of misery.

[Great Minarchistan]

They got stronger with the revolution, actually. :^)

Did the Revolutionary Catalonia have enough time to mine data on their industry? They lasted a mere three years after all :^)

Also, way to go ignoring the whole fact that there was literally a civil war going on when the revolution happened lmao, but yeah, Anarchism is just c h a o s alright /s

Civil wars aren't permanent, see the American Civil War which was quickly resolved by governmental forces. Oh wait, they didn't have a government to centralize war efforts

A reminder that Smith would be appalled by the current system in place and even more so by Libertarianism.

Irrelevant to the topic, I'm not debating Adam Smith's character.

[Great Minarchistan]

If that were true, no capitalist society would simultaneously have extreme wealth and poverty.

How come?

Jeff Bezos' selfish greed would not translate into him hoarding obscene amounts of wealth while his workers (and much of the nation, for that matter) live on the edge of misery.

93 percent of Bezos' net worth is pushed by his ownership of stocks in Amazon -- 16% of the company, to be precise -- which has been going through a speculative bubble where the hype behind it isn't supported by the profit margins espoused by the company i.e. wait until his wealth is cut to sub-50 billion when AMZN goes bust.

The company itself has also a large job turnover, so workers aren't "trapped into misery" when they choose to work in there.

[Torrocca]

They got stronger with the revolution, actually. :^)

Did the Revolutionary Catalonia have enough time to mine data on their industry? They lasted a mere three years after all :^)

There's data online if you bothered to use Google. :^)))

Also, way to go ignoring the whole fact that there was literally a civil war going on when the revolution happened lmao, but yeah, Anarchism is just c h a o s alright /s

Civil wars aren't permanent, see the American Civil War which was quickly resolved by governmental forces. Oh wait, they didn't have a government to centralize war efforts

Lemme know how your Corporate venture into Sudan goes, then. :^)

A reminder that Smith would be appalled by the current system in place and even more so by Libertarianism.

Irrelevant to the topic, I'm not debating Adam Smith's character.

Relevant for my quips, though.

[Second Empire of America]

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

If the rich keep taking everything, the butcher, brewer, and baker will all go bankrupt. Capitalism can't withstand large amounts of inequality without collapsing. It needs customers to function at all, and if the poor can't afford to buy the stuff the rich are making, the economy will simply break.

[Aellex]

There's data online if you bothered to use Google. :^)))

It's been twice you made that claim recently and twice you didn't source it, tho.

[Torrocca]

There's data online if you bothered to use Google. :^)))

It's been twice you made that claim recently and twice you didn't source it, tho.

Just saying. If this were an IRL debate I'd laugh at myself for this

[Great Minarchistan]

There's data online if you bothered to use Google. :^)))

Burden of the proof lies on the claimer :^)

Lemme know how your Corporate venture into Sudan goes, then. :^)

What's the situation in sudan even?

Relevant for my quips, though.

Keep your bickering to yourself.

[Great Minarchistan]

If the rich keep taking everything, the butcher, brewer, and baker will all go bankrupt.

Yes, because people who work receive $0 for their job.

Capitalism can't withstand large amounts of inequality without collapsing.

It actually can, since the wealthy also consume. That's of course implying that inequality = falling incomes for the bottom, which is a fallacious affirmation.

[Second Empire of America]

It actually can, since the wealthy also consume. That's of course implying that inequality = falling incomes for the bottom, which is a fallacious affirmation.

The rich have a much lower Marginal Propensity to Consume than the poor. Because consumption is what drives capitalist economies, a low MPC is a very bad thing.

[Torrocca]

There's data online if you bothered to use Google. :^)))

Burden of the proof lies on the claimer :^)

Google has sullied that idea :^)

Lemme know how your Corporate venture into Sudan goes, then. :^)

What's the situation in sudan even?

Civil war.

[Great Minarchistan]

The rich have a much lower Marginal Propensity to Consume than the poor. Because consumption is what drives capitalist economies, a low MPC is a very bad thing.

Consumption isn't what drives an economy, it's merely a byproduct of job creation and economic growth asserted by business fixed investment.

[Great Minarchistan]

Google has sullied that idea :^)

It's your burden still.

[Torrocca]

Google has sullied that idea :^)

It's your burden still.

Technically, you made the first claim on Catalonia, so it's your burden to prove it was nothing but chaos. :^)

[Proctopeo]

Catalonia, as a geographic region, doesn't exist. It is merely a sub-sea of the Mediterranean, made up as a landmass and a part of Spain by Big Map.

[Great Minarchistan]

It's your burden still.

Technically, you made the first claim on Catalonia, so it's your burden to prove it was nothing but chaos. :^)

Your query comes second, so please obey the order of the queries :^)

[Torrocca]

Technically, you made the first claim on Catalonia, so it's your burden to prove it was nothing but chaos. :^)

Your query comes second, so please obey the order of the queries :^)

First to claim is first to prove, tyvm. :^)

[Valgora]

Technically, you made the first claim on Catalonia, so it's your burden to prove it was nothing but chaos. :^)

Your query comes second, so please obey the order of the queries :^)

To be fair, I don't think the order of queries matters compared to who made the first claim.

[Ostroeuropa]

I agree with elements of Prussian Socialism and its rejection of Marxism and Internationalism. Fite me.

If you actually agreed with Prussian socialism, I don't think you would have a cartoon pony avatar, because the concept behind Spengler's idea is inherently collectivist and militarist.

I disagree with the militarist elements, but I agree with their rationales for rejecting Marxism and Internationalism and their view of socialism as a process of changing society toward class collaboration rather than conflict.

[Nekokuni]

If you actually agreed with Prussian socialism, I don't think you would have a cartoon pony avatar, because the concept behind Spengler's idea is inherently collectivist and militarist.

I disagree with the militarist elements, but I agree with their rationales for rejecting Marxism and Internationalism and their view of socialism as a process of changing society toward class collaboration rather than conflict.

There isn't a great deal of logic or rationale here:

The true victor—and this cannot be repeated often enough—is the blood, the idea become flesh and spirit, a force that drives the totality onward. The victors of 1789 called themselves the bourgeoisie; but every true Frenchman was then and is today a bourgeois. Every true German is a worker. It is part of his way of life.

Spengler's brand of socialism wasn't even socialism. It was just enlightened absolutism (he even claims Marx wasn't a real socialist, but Frederick the Great was). To take him seriously is to reject 200 years of left-wing history and reducing the word to some racist abstraction which conflate economic occupations with nationalities. There's already a word for nationalist class collaboration, and I'm pretty sure it's not “socialism.”

[Torrocca]

I agree with elements of Prussian Socialism and its rejection of Marxism and Internationalism. Fite me.

"Spengler's Prussian socialism was popular amongst the German political right, especially the revolutionary right who had distanced themselves from traditional conservatism.[4] His notions of Prussian socialism influenced Nazism and the Conservative Revolutionary movement."

Seeing as how Ostro's ignoring Torroca, and not me, Torrocca, I'm sure he'll happily respond to this given fact about his beloved Prussian Socialism.

[Proctopeo]

Prussian socialism is just an army with a social