LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Dumb Ideologies]

inb4 "but n-not because I like you or anything!"

Totally not a tsundere for conservatives, no way.

Naw, not like that, I was alluding to what seemed to me to be some conservative dogwhistles in the post about education (such as the term "flourishing" and an evidently Burkean idea of progress). Tsundere toward conservativism, not conservatives.

20 year old SJW me did have a "hmmm...this guy's got a point" moment when we briefly looked at Burke's writings on the French Revolution during the political theory module of my first year at uni, and while I did do some extra reading back then it's a looooong time ago so any influence is probably entirely accidental.

Alas, Burke only got but one week, whereas Marx got a month of lectures and seminars, and then large slabs of almost every subsequent module over the following years.

Bit of a travesty how you can get a first class degree while knowing in detail about only a very thin slice of political thought, tbh. It''s why I don't respond to the Professor's frequent accusations of anti-academicism by pointing out that I've actually got a degree. I sort of feel like I shouldn't have one with the very narrow breadth of knowledge I have.

[The Parkus Empire]

Naw, not like that, I was alluding to what seemed to me to be some conservative dogwhistles in the post about education (such as the term "flourishing" and an evidently Burkean idea of progress). Tsundere toward conservativism, not conservatives.

20 year old SJW me did have a "hmmm...this guy's got a point" moment when we briefly looked at Burke's writings on the French Revolution during the political theory module of my first year at uni, and while I did do some extra reading back then it's a looooong time ago so any influence is probably entirely accidental.

Alas, Burke only got but one week, whereas Marx got a month of lectures and seminars, and then large slabs of almost every subsequent module over the following years.

Bit of a travesty how you can get a first class degree while knowing in detail about only a very thin slice of political thought, tbh. It''s why I don't respond to the Professor's frequent accusations of anti-academicism by pointing out that I've actually got a degree. I sort of feel like I shouldn't have one with the very narrow breadth of knowledge I have.

Well degrees now are about making specialists, not gentlemen. We thought universal education meant everyone could now have that previously reserved to the upper class, but we got the gypsy switch and were given an education that teaches us how to achieve our fullest utility for production, consumption, allocation, service and bureaucracy. Marx, as radical as he is, cares entirety about these concerns, whereas Burke stresses the importance of not casting away everything we can't readily understand, rationalize and quantify.

[Jelmatt]

20 year old SJW me did have a "hmmm...this guy's got a point" moment when we briefly looked at Burke's writings on the French Revolution during the political theory module of my first year at uni, and while I did do some extra reading back then it's a looooong time ago so any influence is probably entirely accidental.

Alas, Burke only got but one week, whereas Marx got a month of lectures and seminars, and then large slabs of almost every subsequent module over the following years.

Bit of a travesty how you can get a first class degree while knowing in detail about only a very thin slice of political thought, tbh. It''s why I don't respond to the Professor's frequent accusations of anti-academicism by pointing out that I've actually got a degree. I sort of feel like I shouldn't have one with the very narrow breadth of knowledge I have.

Well degrees now are about making specialists, not gentlemen. We thought universal education meant everyone could now have that previously reserved to the upper class, but we got the gypsy switch and were given an education that teaches us how to achieve our fullest utility for production, consumption, allocation, service and bureaucracy. Marx, as radical as he is, cares entirety about these concerns, whereas Burke stresses the importance of not casting away everything we can't readily understand, rationalize and quantify.

Marxism is dogmatically rationalist to a fault, I agree, but I think you're underplaying the value of the concept of alienation and species-being in Marx's work.

[Tule]

Kavanaugh on a closer look seems more moderate than I feared. My point is that women should not be compelled under threat of force to finish a pregnancy before the point of viability. Women are not mere baby making machines.

I love how every pro-abortion person just assumes being pro-life means you think women only exist to pump out babies.

Continued from the gun control thread.

It's of course more complicated than that, but ultimately, if you punish a woman for having an abortion before the point of viability, you're basically forcing her to continue a pregnancy. You're saying her bodily autonomy is outweighed by that of what amounts anatomically to a fish. It is outweighed by something that has never been conscious and doesn't know what its missing, something that doesn't meet the mainstream biologists' criteria of what is considered life.

It is extremely draconian.

Obviously after the point of viability however we are talking about a life form that can live on its own and thus is a person.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I love how every pro-abortion person just assumes being pro-life means you think women only exist to pump out babies.

Continued from the gun control thread.

It's of course more complicated than that,

Then give it the deliberation you think it deserves the first time.

but ultimately, if you punish a woman for having an abortion before the point of viability,

Another assumption: pregnancy is punishment.

you're basically forcing her to continue a pregnancy. You're saying her bodily autonomy is outweighed by that of what amounts anatomically to a fish.

First comparisons to parasites, now comparisons to parasites! So many wonderful ways to talk about the unborn!

It is outweighed by something that has never been conscious and doesn't know what its missing,

Kill it! Kill it before it's my problem!

something that doesn't meet the mainstream biologists' criteria of what is considered life.

TIL a fetus's cells aren't alive.

It is extremely draconian.

Hardly, compared to actually draconian policies.

Obviously after the point of viability however we are talking about a life form that can live on its own and thus is a person.

Babies can't live on their own :\

[The Parkus Empire]

Well degrees now are about making specialists, not gentlemen. We thought universal education meant everyone could now have that previously reserved to the upper class, but we got the gypsy switch and were given an education that teaches us how to achieve our fullest utility for production, consumption, allocation, service and bureaucracy. Marx, as radical as he is, cares entirety about these concerns, whereas Burke stresses the importance of not casting away everything we can't readily understand, rationalize and quantify.

Marxism is dogmatically rationalist to a fault, I agree, but I think you're underplaying the value of the concept of alienation and species-being in Marx's work.

I think you're missing that in Marxism, it means we find our entire being in production and consumption.

[Jelmatt]

Marxism is dogmatically rationalist to a fault, I agree, but I think you're underplaying the value of the concept of alienation and species-being in Marx's work.

I think you're missing that in Marxism, it means we find our entire being in production and consumption.

We find our being in creative expression, yes, not the type of robotic assembly-line production you seem to think Marx was trying to promote.

[The Parkus Empire]

I think you're missing that in Marxism, it means we find our entire being in production and consumption.

We find our being in creative expression, yes, not the type of robotic assembly-line production you seem to think Marx was trying to promote.

Marx doesn't distinguish, he even says the Sistine Chapel was simply made by trained productive labor and says there is nothing remarkable about Michelangelo. Obviously Marx was not wowed by nude strapping men in sexy poses.

[Torrocca]

I think you're missing that in Marxism, it means we find our entire being in production and consumption.

We find our being in creative expression, yes, not the type of robotic assembly-line production you seem to think Marx was trying to promote.

Y'know what's funny (and probably a bit irrelevant to this specific conversation)? Both Marx and Smith were against the general trend of the robotization of the workers through shit like repetitive assembly-line work and the like; I can't find the exact quote, but he (Smith) basically summed it up as the rather perverse destruction of the human mind.

Funny how things turned out for the society founded off the works of the father of Capitalism itself.

[The Parkus Empire]

I love how every pro-abortion person just assumes being pro-life means you think women only exist to pump out babies.

Continued from the gun control thread.

It's of course more complicated than that, but ultimately, if you punish a woman for having an abortion before the point of viability, you're basically forcing her to continue a pregnancy. You're saying her bodily autonomy is outweighed by that of what amounts anatomically to a fish. It is outweighed by something that has never been conscious and doesn't know what its missing, something that doesn't meet the mainstream biologists' criteria of what is considered life.

It is extremely draconian.

Obviously after the point of viability however we are talking about a life form that can live on its own and thus is a person.

A fetus isn't alive? Yes it is, and it's a human

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Continued from the gun control thread.

It's of course more complicated than that, but ultimately, if you punish a woman for having an abortion before the point of viability, you're basically forcing her to continue a pregnancy. You're saying her bodily autonomy is outweighed by that of what amounts anatomically to a fish. It is outweighed by something that has never been conscious and doesn't know what its missing, something that doesn't meet the mainstream biologists' criteria of what is considered life.

It is extremely draconian.

Obviously after the point of viability however we are talking about a life form that can live on its own and thus is a person.

A fetus isn't alive? Yes it is, and it's a human

Doesn’t make a fetus a legal person.

[The Parkus Empire]

A fetus isn't alive? Yes it is, and it's a human

Doesn’t make a fetus a legal person.

We're talking about human rights

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Marxism is dogmatically rationalist to a fault, I agree, but I think you're underplaying the value of the concept of alienation and species-being in Marx's work.

Hegelianism is rationalistic. Marx, in turning Hegel upside down on his head, substituted, with some exceptions, Hegel's rationalism with Feuerbach's materialism. One of my criticisms of Max Weber's work is that he critiqued Marx from the standpoint of rationalism. In other words, Weber either missed the entire point of Marx's work or simply rejected it.

[Second Empire of America]

Continued from the gun control thread.

It's of course more complicated than that, but ultimately, if you punish a woman for having an abortion before the point of viability, you're basically forcing her to continue a pregnancy. You're saying her bodily autonomy is outweighed by that of what amounts anatomically to a fish. It is outweighed by something that has never been conscious and doesn't know what its missing, something that doesn't meet the mainstream biologists' criteria of what is considered life.

It is extremely draconian.

Obviously after the point of viability however we are talking about a life form that can live on its own and thus is a person.

A fetus isn't alive? Yes it is, and it's a human

Fetuses can't think. They haven't even developed a brain in many cases. The reason human life is so incredibly valued is that humans are the only sapient species on earth, and sapience is a criteria which fetuses don't meet. They aren't even sentient, putting them on par with plants in intelligence. Fetuses might have human DNA, but they lack the sapience that makes humans special. They have no brain to feel pain.

On the other hand, pregnant women can feel a lot of pain, and forcing them to give birth is an excruciating form of torture. While this might be justified if it would save the life of an actual sapient being, it is absolutely not justified to save the life of what is essentially a mindless lump of tissue.

[Dark Socialism]

A fetus isn't alive? Yes it is, and it's a human

On the other hand, pregnant women can feel a lot of pain, and forcing them to give birth is an excruciating form of torture. While this might be justified if it would save the life of an actual sapient being, it is absolutely not justified to save the life of what is essentially a mindless lump of tissue.

There's something called a C-Section lol

[Jelmatt]

Marxism is dogmatically rationalist to a fault, I agree, but I think you're underplaying the value of the concept of alienation and species-being in Marx's work.

Hegelianism is rationalistic. Marx, in turning Hegel upside down on his head, substituted, with some exceptions, Hegel's rationalism with Feuerbach's materialism. One of my criticisms of Max Weber's work is that he critiqued Marx from the standpoint of rationalism. In other words, Weber either missed the entire point of Marx's work or simply rejected it.

Uh, materialism is rationalistic, too. The difference between Hegel and Marx was one of idealism vs. materialism, not rationalism vs. materialism. The opposite of rationalism is irrationalism, not materialism.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Uh, materialism is rationalistic, too. The difference between Hegel and Marx was one of idealism vs. materialism, not rationalism vs. materialism. The opposite of rationalism is irrationalism, not materialism.

Materialism and rationalism are not necessarily incompatible. One can be a materialist and a rationalist, or one can be one and not the other. For the most part, I would say that Marx was primarily a materialist, and both Hegel and Weber were rationalists or idealists.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Rationalism and materialism are close brothers, but they shouldn't go out without taking their big sister prejudice with them for protection. Otherwise they may wander down some very dark ideological alleys. I cannot agree with those Marxists who argue superstructure is entirely determined by the economic base and that the former needs wholesale demolition following a revolution. A government of the people must be strong in cutting off the power of those seeking to strike back against their demotion from positions of excessive economic privilege, but it must also be incredibly careful to preserve what can be preserved and to avoid the temptation to getting caught up in brutal Year Zero-ing.

[The Parkus Empire]

A fetus isn't alive? Yes it is, and it's a human

Fetuses can't think. They haven't even developed a brain in many cases. The reason human life is so incredibly valued is that humans are the only sapient species on earth, and sapience is a criteria which fetuses don't meet. They aren't even sentient, putting them on par with plants in intelligence. Fetuses might have human DNA, but they lack the sapience that makes humans special. They have no brain to feel pain.

On the other hand, pregnant women can feel a lot of pain, and forcing them to give birth is an excruciating form of torture. While this might be justified if it would save the life of an actual sapient being, it is absolutely not justified to save the life of what is essentially a mindless lump of tissue.

A human life is a human life. If pregnancy happened spontaneously, I would see your point, but in most cases the mother shares responsibility with the father. That means she is duty-bound to at least not kill the human life she is responsible for, though she can turn over that responsibility to someone else after birth if it's beyond her means.

Rationalism and materialism are close brothers, but they shouldn't go out without taking their big sister prejudice with them for protection. Otherwise they may wander down some very dark ideological alleys. I cannot agree with those Marxists who argue superstructure is entirely determined by the economic base and that the former needs wholesale demolition following a revolution. A government of the people must be strong in cutting off the power of those seeking to strike back against their demotion from positions of excessive economic privilege, but it must also be incredibly careful to preserve what can be preserved and to avoid the temptation to getting caught up in brutal Year Zero-ing.

>being against leaping forward

[Dumb Ideologies]

>being against leaping forward

I'm a firm believer in the TimeWarp Doctrine: every jump to the left must be accompanied by a step to the right.

[The Parkus Empire]

>being against leaping forward

I'm a firm believer in the TimeWarp Doctrine: every jump to the left must be accompanied by a step to the right.

My treacherous sides have abandoned me.

[Ostroeuropa]

>being against leaping forward

I'm a firm believer in the TimeWarp Doctrine: every jump to the left must be accompanied by a step to the right.

I'll adopt this doctrine.

[Torrocca]

>being against leaping forward

I'm a firm believer in the TimeWarp Doctrine: every jump to the left must be accompanied by a step to the right.

DI, no! Not radical centrism!

[New yugoslavaia]

I'm a firm believer in the TimeWarp Doctrine: every jump to the left must be accompanied by a step to the right.

DI, no! Not radical centrism!

Yes, got ahead my new sister! Our numbers must swell! We must destroy the neo-Nazis, commies, Ancom's and Ancaps, along with those stupid moderates! THE WORLD SHALL BE OURS! AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

[Torrocca]

DI, no! Not radical centrism!

Yes, got ahead my new sister! Our numbers must swell! We must destroy the neo-Nazis, commies, Ancom's and Ancaps, along with those stupid moderates! THE WORLD SHALL BE OURS! AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

THANOS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-