LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Cekoviu]

I doubt it. Free software activism has mostly been left-wing, and that meshes well with their mission. I also don't really see how feminism has anything to do with being anti-Pirate, but okay.
I could see allying with populists in general, though.

Left increasingly favours regulations on an ever-expanding definition of hate speech and trolling. Pirate parties are fundamentally internet libertarians.

As alliances go, wow is that an uneasy one.

Eh, but aren't the lefties (I mean like Die Linke, not SPD) rather libertarian as well?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Left increasingly favours regulations on an ever-expanding definition of hate speech and trolling. Pirate parties are fundamentally internet libertarians.

As alliances go, wow is that an uneasy one.

Eh, but aren't the lefties (I mean like Die Linke, not SPD) rather libertarian as well?

Ooh I dunno. It'd be interesting if that were true.

[The South Falls]

I doubt it. Free software activism has mostly been left-wing, and that meshes well with their mission. I also don't really see how feminism has anything to do with being anti-Pirate, but okay.
I could see allying with populists in general, though.

Left increasingly favours regulations on an ever-expanding definition of hate speech and trolling. Pirate parties are fundamentally internet libertarians.
Leftist libertarians allying with right-wing populism is an alliance that we could pursue, but one that probably would split both factions in two.
As alliances go, wow is that an uneasy one.

[Proctopeo]

This is an addition to my Antifa.red page:

“Radical” has become little more than an over–used smear word. Any descriptive significance it may have once conveyed was long ago clouded by the games of partisan politics. Whatever the language, libertarian and left communists are unreservedly extremists:

Semitic: mutaṭarrif (Arabic, مُتَطَرِّف), qiyṣōniy (Hebrew, קִיצוֹנִי), sꞌənəfäña (Amharic, ጽንፈኛ), sawpanaʾ (Syriac/Sūryayaʾ, ܣܵܘܦܵܢܵܐ), and estremisti (Maltese).

Indo–Iranian: ʾin°tihā pasan°da (Urdu, اِنْتِہَا پَسَنْدَ), ʾin°tihāpasan°d (Sindhi, اِنْتِهَاپَسَنْد), ʾif°rātí (Persian and Pashto, اِفْرَاطَی), ifrotgaro (Tajik, ифротгаро), kaṭaṛavādī (Guramukhi Punjabi, ਕੱਟੜਵਾਦੀ), ḱaṭaṛavādí (Shahmukhi Punjabi, کَٹَڑَوَادِی), ativādī (Hindi, अतिवादी), and caramapanthī (Bengali, চরমপন্থী).

Sinospheric: jíduān–fēnzi (Mandarin Chinese, 极端分子), kageki ha (Japanese, 過激派, かげき は, カゲキ ハ), h̄ạw runræng (Thai, หัวรุนแรง), kŭktan chuŭija (Korean, 극단 주의자), and một kẻ cực đoan (Vietnamese).

Italic: ultra (Latin, ultrā, extrémiste (French), extremista (Spanish), extremista (Portugese), extremista (Italian), and extremist (Romanian).

Germanic: Extremist (German), extremistische (Dutch), ekstremist (Danish), ekstremistisk (Norwegian), extremist (Swedish), and ekstremistiese (Afrikaans).

East Slavic: ékstremistskij (Russian, экстремистский) and ekstremíst (Ukrainian, екстреміст).

Finnic–Uralic: äärimmäisyysmies (Finnish) and äärmuslik (Estonian).

Austronesian: seorang ekstremis (Indonesian), lan ekstremis (Javanese), tuhinga o mua (Māori/Te Reo Māori), ka poʿe extremist (Hawaiian), and isang extremist (Filipino).

Turkic: aşırılıkçı (Turkish), ékstremisttik (Kyrgyz, экстремисттик), ekstremistik (Uzbek), and ifratçı (Azerbaijani).

constructed: ekstremisto (Esperanto), lölimik (Volapük), estremiste (Lingua Franca Nova/Elefen/LFN), extremista (Interlingua), ekstremist (Interslavic), extremiste (Sambahsa/Sambahsa–Mundialect), and extremarum partium fautor (Neo–Latin).

miscellaneous: cayraheġakan (Armenian, the lone survivor of the Thraco–Phrygian Indo–European sub–family, ծայրահեղական) and extremistḗs (Modern Greek εξτρεμιστής).

these are just the word "extremist" translated into other languages
I don't see your point here

[Democratic Communist Federation]

You're missing Inuktitut (Inuktitut: ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ) in that list.

I used what I could find. I actually looked for words which which could be translated extremist in Inuktitut, as well as some other first American, languages. The only one I could find was native Hawaiian.

also,
>including Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, and Vietnamese together when they aren't even related

I never said they were. I just tried to put the languages into categories which made sense. That did not always mean language families.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Filipino feels a little forced. While technically correct, you're more likely to hear people use the term radikal (radical) or militante (militant) to describe extremists, rather than the actual word - but, more recently, there's been a kind of distinction between the two, whereas you're more likely to hear the term radikal being used for Islamist rebels, while militante is used more to describe various left-wing movements - from workers participating in a strike, to left-wing activists, to actually-armed left-wing rebels.

Filipino is an Austronesian language. As I said, I wanted to avoid radical. I also did not want to use a word like militant.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Oh, and you should probably specify the dialect of Armenian you're using, because the transliteration would be incorrect for the Western Armenian dialect, which afaik is the most common form spoken in the diaspora.

That's not the point of the list. I am just trying to show that words for extremist can be found in various languages.

[Jelmatt]

Filipino feels a little forced. While technically correct, you're more likely to hear people use the term radikal (radical) or militante (militant) to describe extremists, rather than the actual word - but, more recently, there's been a kind of distinction between the two, whereas you're more likely to hear the term radikal being used for Islamist rebels, while militante is used more to describe various left-wing movements - from workers participating in a strike, to left-wing activists, to actually-armed left-wing rebels.

Filipino is an Austronesian language. As I said, I wanted to avoid radical. I also did not want to use a word like militant.

Why the hell would you prefer "extremist" to "radical?" The former almost universally has far worse connotations than the latter, and in academic definitions the former also means something a lot less palatable to most people.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://youtu.be/Qf4kNjXVVgo?t=422

Watch this for a three minutes then realize how partisan, dogmatic, and narrow minded the mainstream is on the issue, compare/contrast the wikipedia articles and how subjective and feminist essentialist lens of understanding all problems (The people with only one type of book on their bookshelf who refuse to read any others) is so inadequate and incoherent compared to the fact of the matter that examines the real reasons for the controversy, and how the feminist lens and the routine presentation of it as the same thing as objective reality covers up and ignores a lot of things (A major problem with the feminist lens in general) and how the shilling on behalf of progressivism and feminism is done purely to cover up the inadequacies of capitalism and how it rots everything it touches. The feminist movement were used as pawns for capitalists, and they were happy to do it. I'm bored of them being so routinely happy to do it, it happens all the damn time.

Quote really sums up inadequate the feminist lens is for explaining Gamergate:
"To this day, all the distracting crap and noise is so bad that it is difficult to find mainstream sources explaining what and why we saw this particular argument, in this particular industry, at that particular time, as far as many articles are concerned, it exploded spontaneously for no reason."

This is fundamentally what the mainstream progressive view on Gamergate is when they pretend it was about misogyny, and it's laughably incompetent and ridiculous. That anyone believes it is shocking.

Consider what it says about our society and its prospects that a lens that is fundamentally incapable of accurately identifying the problems with society is the one our institutions are beginning to embrace, and consider how the lens is internally consistent, despite being at odds with reality. In this example, they managed to demonize and vilify anyone who tried to change the subject away from what they wanted to talk about, and in the process, entrenched massive anti-consumer problems with an entire industry.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Why the hell would you prefer "extremist" to "radical?" The former almost universally has far worse connotations than the latter, and in academic definitions the former also means something a lot less palatable to most people.

As I wrote:

The term, radical, has become far too commonplace. It is, much of the time, an over–used smear word. These days, in the U.S., many Republicans absurdly ascribe that designation to most, even all, members of the Democratic Party.

The point is that I wanted to be provocative without implying military violence.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The point is that I wanted to be provocative without implying military violence.

go out wearing a crop top and thong emblazoned with the CND symbol.

[United Muscovite Nations]

https://youtu.be/Qf4kNjXVVgo?t=422

Watch this for a three minutes then realize how partisan, dogmatic, and narrow minded the mainstream is on the issue, compare/contrast the wikipedia articles and how subjective and feminist essentialist lens of understanding all problems (The people with only one type of book on their bookshelf who refuse to read any others) is so inadequate and incoherent compared to the fact of the matter that examines the real reasons for the controversy, and how the feminist lens and the routine presentation of it as the same thing as objective reality covers up and ignores a lot of things (A major problem with the feminist lens in general) and how the shilling on behalf of progressivism and feminism is done purely to cover up the inadequacies of capitalism and how it rots everything it touches. The feminist movement were used as pawns for capitalists, and they were happy to do it. I'm bored of them being so routinely happy to do it, it happens all the damn time.

Quote really sums up inadequate the feminist lens is for explaining Gamergate:
"To this day, all the distracting crap and noise is so bad that it is difficult to find mainstream sources explaining what and why we saw this particular argument, in this particular industry, at that particular time, as far as many articles are concerned, it exploded spontaneously for no reason."

This is fundamentally what the mainstream progressive view on Gamergate is when they pretend it was about misogyny, and it's laughably incompetent and ridiculous. That anyone believes it is shocking.

Consider what it says about our society and its prospects that a lens that is fundamentally incapable of accurately identifying the problems with society is the one our institutions are beginning to embrace, and consider how the lens is internally consistent, despite being at odds with reality. In this example, they managed to demonize and vilify anyone who tried to change the subject away from what they wanted to talk about, and in the process, entrenched massive anti-consumer problems with an entire industry.

So, why are we bringing up an MRA red herring from 5 years ago?

[Ostroeuropa]

https://youtu.be/Qf4kNjXVVgo?t=422

Watch this for a three minutes then realize how partisan, dogmatic, and narrow minded the mainstream is on the issue, compare/contrast the wikipedia articles and how subjective and feminist essentialist lens of understanding all problems (The people with only one type of book on their bookshelf who refuse to read any others) is so inadequate and incoherent compared to the fact of the matter that examines the real reasons for the controversy, and how the feminist lens and the routine presentation of it as the same thing as objective reality covers up and ignores a lot of things (A major problem with the feminist lens in general) and how the shilling on behalf of progressivism and feminism is done purely to cover up the inadequacies of capitalism and how it rots everything it touches. The feminist movement were used as pawns for capitalists, and they were happy to do it. I'm bored of them being so routinely happy to do it, it happens all the damn time.

Quote really sums up inadequate the feminist lens is for explaining Gamergate:
"To this day, all the distracting crap and noise is so bad that it is difficult to find mainstream sources explaining what and why we saw this particular argument, in this particular industry, at that particular time, as far as many articles are concerned, it exploded spontaneously for no reason."

This is fundamentally what the mainstream progressive view on Gamergate is when they pretend it was about misogyny, and it's laughably incompetent and ridiculous. That anyone believes it is shocking.

Consider what it says about our society and its prospects that a lens that is fundamentally incapable of accurately identifying the problems with society is the one our institutions are beginning to embrace, and consider how the lens is internally consistent, despite being at odds with reality. In this example, they managed to demonize and vilify anyone who tried to change the subject away from what they wanted to talk about, and in the process, entrenched massive anti-consumer problems with an entire industry.

So, why are we bringing up an MRA red herring from 5 years ago?

It's a piece of history and looking at it can help us to understand the current problems with the left wing and the people ruining it.
How is this an MRA "Red herring"?

From analyzing this event It's difficult to take feminists seriously as leftists when we can literally see the forces of capital using their movement to derail criticism of capitalisms flaws, and they happily go along with it and shift the conversation to yet more gynocentric waffling because their lens is fundamentally broken and ill suited to actual analysis of societies problems, their conclusion is pre-determined and they're equipped with the tools to always reach it and nothing else, while also encouraged to vilify anyone who doesn't agree with those conclusions. Let's be clear about this, there's exactly two words that accurately describe every progressive who bought in and spread the mainstream progressive narrative about Gamergate:

Class traitors. It's not the only example of it, see hollywood and the angry rants about misogyny when capitalists get annoyed they can't ship a shitty product and decide to blame misogyny, and how many feminists go along with that too.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So, why are we bringing up an MRA red herring from 5 years ago?

It's a piece of history and looking at it can help us to understand the current problems with the left wing and the people ruining it.
How is this an MRA "Red herring"?

From analyzing this event It's difficult to take feminists seriously as leftists when we can literally see the forces of capital using their movement to derail criticism of capitalisms flaws, and they happily go along with it and shift the conversation to yet more gynocentric waffling because their lens is fundamentally broken and ill suited to actual analysis of societies problems, their conclusion is pre-determined and they're equipped with the tools to always reach it and nothing else, while also encouraged to vilify anyone who doesn't agree with those conclusions. Let's be clear about this, there's exactly two words that accurately describe every progressive who bought in and spread the mainstream progressive narrative about Gamergate:

Class traitors. It's not the only example of it, see hollywood and the angry rants about misogyny when capitalists get annoyed they can't ship a shitty product and decide to blame misogyny, and how many feminists go along with that too.

That sounds like it's secondary to the main stink about gamergate, moreover, I still don't see how this ties back into general Leftism, just your pet issue of feminism.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's a piece of history and looking at it can help us to understand the current problems with the left wing and the people ruining it.
How is this an MRA "Red herring"?

From analyzing this event It's difficult to take feminists seriously as leftists when we can literally see the forces of capital using their movement to derail criticism of capitalisms flaws, and they happily go along with it and shift the conversation to yet more gynocentric waffling because their lens is fundamentally broken and ill suited to actual analysis of societies problems, their conclusion is pre-determined and they're equipped with the tools to always reach it and nothing else, while also encouraged to vilify anyone who doesn't agree with those conclusions. Let's be clear about this, there's exactly two words that accurately describe every progressive who bought in and spread the mainstream progressive narrative about Gamergate:

Class traitors. It's not the only example of it, see hollywood and the angry rants about misogyny when capitalists get annoyed they can't ship a shitty product and decide to blame misogyny, and how many feminists go along with that too.

That sounds like it's secondary to the main stink about gamergate, moreover, I still don't see how this ties back into general Leftism, just your pet issue of feminism.

How is it secondary to the main stink about Gamergate? The entire reason it occured was falling ad revenue in the games journalism industry which pushed them into clickbait, controversy, and so on, and that the games industry was the canary in the coal mine for media in general on this issue because the very things it reports on (games) are owned by the corporations they're criticizing and they need their good will, meaning they fell into worthlessness and clickbait quicker than others. When Gamers had enough, they blamed misogyny and spontaneous net-rioting over misogyny (Again, hilarious that anyone buys it when you think about it for longer than a second) rather than note that Capital and its corrosive influence had corrupted the media in this industry, and the actual trends in play that caused the controversy in that industry, in that time, for those reasons. The feminist movement served as nothing more than a derailment of criticism of capital and they went along with it.

It ties into general leftism because it's an example of a trojan horse in the left wing that routinely does the bidding of capital, the feminist movement. It's a pattern worth noting and it's arisen elsewhere too.

[United Muscovite Nations]

That sounds like it's secondary to the main stink about gamergate, moreover, I still don't see how this ties back into general Leftism, just your pet issue of feminism.

How is it secondary to the main stink about Gamergate? The entire reason it occured was falling ad revenue in the games journalism industry which pushed them into clickbait, controversy, and so on, and that the games industry was the canary in the coal mine for media in general on this issue because the very things it reports on (games) are owned by the corporations they're criticizing, meaning they fell into worthlessness and clickbait quicker than others. When Gamers had enough, they blamed misogyny and spontaneous net-rioting over misogyny (Again, hilarious that anyone buys it when you think about it for longer than a second) rather than note that Capital and its corrosive influence had corrupted the media in this industry, and the actual trends in play that caused the controversy in that industry, in that time, for those reasons. The feminist movement served as nothing more than a derailment of criticism of capital and they went along with it.

It ties into general leftism because it's an example of a trojan horse in the left wing that routinely does the bidding of capital, the feminist movement. It's a pattern worth noting and it's arisen elsewhere too.

Wait a minute, I thought it was about some gaming journalist who blew some guy in the industry?

[Ostroeuropa]

How is it secondary to the main stink about Gamergate? The entire reason it occured was falling ad revenue in the games journalism industry which pushed them into clickbait, controversy, and so on, and that the games industry was the canary in the coal mine for media in general on this issue because the very things it reports on (games) are owned by the corporations they're criticizing, meaning they fell into worthlessness and clickbait quicker than others. When Gamers had enough, they blamed misogyny and spontaneous net-rioting over misogyny (Again, hilarious that anyone buys it when you think about it for longer than a second) rather than note that Capital and its corrosive influence had corrupted the media in this industry, and the actual trends in play that caused the controversy in that industry, in that time, for those reasons. The feminist movement served as nothing more than a derailment of criticism of capital and they went along with it.

It ties into general leftism because it's an example of a trojan horse in the left wing that routinely does the bidding of capital, the feminist movement. It's a pattern worth noting and it's arisen elsewhere too.

Wait a minute, I thought it was about some gaming journalist who blew some guy in the industry?

It was about corruption and clickbait, both caused by the precarious situation of the industry and the capitalism system it existed in and how that system made the media unable to do its job and report factually, both corruption and gender based clickbait found an intersection in the Zoe Quinn example which kicked off the movement.

It also says a LOT that when industries needed an issue to be extremely controversial and divide people, they went for the feminist movement. This is one reason why feminisms prominence on the left is killing our chances and driving people to the right wing. All in all, if the progressives were just made to go away, the left would be successful again both because criticism wouldn't be constantly derailed into yet more gynocentrism and waffling about racism, but because we wouldn't be alienating people through constant sexism and racism against them.

Whereas Capital used to use racism and sexism to advance itself and distract from issues, it still does, merely using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Inverted sexism/racism. (Sexism/Racism Advanced through egalitarian rhetoric.)

This is all relevant to understanding how to deconstruct capitalism.

[Cekoviu]

You're missing Inuktitut (Inuktitut: ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ) in that list.

I used what I could find. I actually looked for words which which could be translated extremist in Inuktitut, as well as some other first American, languages. The only one I could find was native Hawaiian.

also,
>including Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, and Vietnamese together when they aren't even related

I never said they were. I just tried to put the languages into categories which made sense. That did not always mean language families.

The category doesn't make any sense, though. I could maayybe see Japanese and Chinese grouped together due to Japanese using the hanzi/kanji from Chinese, and if we're okay with archaic forms, Vietnamese could be included as well. Thai and Korean should be miscellaneous, though, because they don't have many similarities with the others apart from some loanwords and being in a similar wide-ranging geographic region.

Oh, and you should probably specify the dialect of Armenian you're using, because the transliteration would be incorrect for the Western Armenian dialect, which afaik is the most common form spoken in the diaspora.

That's not the point of the list. I am just trying to show that words for extremist can be found in various languages.

If accuracy can be improved at the expense of nearly nothing, I'd say it's a better idea to improve the accuracy, but whatever floats your linguistically vague boat.

[Painisia]

Is Strasserism basically antisemitic anti-capitalism?

[Ostroeuropa]

Is Strasserism basically antisemitic anti-capitalism?

Supposedly only one of the Strassers was anti-semitic.

[Cekoviu]

Is Strasserism basically antisemitic anti-capitalism?

Dumb Ideologies can answer that for you. It's my understanding that antisemitism is not explicitly part of the platform, but it's pretty common in Strasserists.

[Irou]

Is Strasserism basically antisemitic anti-capitalism?

More like nationalist theocratic guild socialism with National oversight

[Democratic Communist Federation]

The category doesn't make any sense, though. I could maayybe see Japanese and Chinese grouped together due to Japanese using the hanzi/kanji from Chinese, and if we're okay with archaic forms, Vietnamese could be included as well. Thai and Korean should be miscellaneous, though, because they don't have many similarities with the others apart from some loanwords and being in a similar wide-ranging geographic region.

The Sinosphere doesn't make sense? According to whom? We use that term in the social sciences all the time (along with the Indosphere). As I said, I was not trying to place the languages into linguistic categories (unless that was appropriate), just into categories which made sense to me.

If accuracy can be improved at the expense of nearly nothing, I'd say it's a better idea to improve the accuracy, but whatever floats your linguistically vague boat.

The categorization is useful for my purposes. You keep on bringing up linguistic. As I said, I was not always using linguistic categories.

[Ostroeuropa]

Is Strasserism basically antisemitic anti-capitalism?

More like nationalist theocratic guild socialism with National oversight

Pretty sure theocracy isn't a compulsory component or DI wouldn't go for it.

[The Parkus Empire]

More like nationalist theocratic guild socialism with National oversight

Pretty sure theocracy isn't a compulsory component or DI wouldn't go for it.

DI's power level is pretty high. Maybe not that high but still nearing 9000