LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

I would like to question those on here who disagree with the principle of self-ownership. If this principle is false or immoral, etc, then how can one come to the conclusion that such things as rape are immoral or a trans person having control over their own body or such issues as abortion?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Not sure why "Islamophobe" is taken seriously as a term to discredit someone anymore than "Christianphobe"

Maybe because, in the countries where the term Islamophobia is used, there is little to no Christianphobia. I mean, I haven't read any stories of people being attacked in the West for wearing crucifixes.

[Genivaria]

I would like to question those on here who disagree with the principle of self-ownership. If this principle is false or immoral, etc, then how can one come to the conclusion that such things as rape are immoral or a trans person having control over their own body or such issues as abortion?

Until the time comes that the human body can be greatly replaced with cybernetics or be replaced entirely with another form (I have doubt that this will ever happen) then I reject that the human body is 'property' of a human but IS the human.
The body and person are one as far as I'm concerned.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

National-Syndicalism isn't leftist :^)

Yes. Some forms of syndicalism can be either on the left or the right, but national syndicalism is not one of them.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

No, I literally don't trust a Fascist that calls themselves Leftist. Long and short of it.

I never even heard a fascist call herself or himself a leftist. If the person did, I would assume she or he was joking.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

I would like to question those on here who disagree with the principle of self-ownership. If this principle is false or immoral, etc, then how can one come to the conclusion that such things as rape are immoral or a trans person having control over their own body or such issues as abortion?

Until the time comes that the human body can be greatly replaced with cybernetics or be replaced entirely with another form (I have doubt that this will ever happen) then I reject that the human body is 'property' of a human but IS the human.
The body and person are one as far as I'm concerned.

But if we dismiss the idea that one has ownership of their body, then how can we come to the conclusion that such things like rape are immoral?

[Genivaria]

Until the time comes that the human body can be greatly replaced with cybernetics or be replaced entirely with another form (I have doubt that this will ever happen) then I reject that the human body is 'property' of a human but IS the human.
The body and person are one as far as I'm concerned.

But if we dismiss the idea that one has ownership of their body, then how can we come to the conclusion that such things like rape are immoral?

I don't see how that's an issue.
If you transfer the human body from being a piece of property to being synonymous with the person themselves then that makes rape even MORE immoral.

[Torrocca]

[Democratic Communist Federation]

But if we dismiss the idea that one has ownership of their body, then how can we come to the conclusion that such things like rape are immoral?

I don't disagree that we have ownership over our bodies. However, when I think of all the families separated by the neofascist, quasifascist, or whatever you want to call him in the U.S. White House, I confidently assert that that those acts are immoral, perhaps sadistically so, even though I have no claims of ownership over any of the people impacted. We are separate on the level of relative reality (what we can see, hear, taste, touch, and smell). However, on the level of copresence (nonduality or unity), our separation is an illusion.

I must admit that I have spent a great deal of the last week literally crying. The capitalist world system, and its contradictions, are dragging on much too long.

[MERIZoC]

(Image)

Whos in between Ron and Ben

[Torrocca]

(Image)

Whos in between Ron and Ben

pretty sure that's philip de franco

[Jelmatt]

I would like to question those on here who disagree with the principle of self-ownership. If this principle is false or immoral, etc, then how can one come to the conclusion that such things as rape are immoral or a trans person having control over their own body or such issues as abortion?

I've talked to you about this before.

Ah, but see, I value the idea of self-ownership. I guess as a right-libertarian, we are not going to agree on the benefits and/or harms of capitalism, like at all. But I think that it plays a part. See, the reason why I embrace Libertarian view of individualism is because I see it as the great defense for self preservation and defending my existence. When one is rejected from the communities that they belong to or identify with, then this gives rise and reason for a person to adopt individualist worldview.

Conceiving of basic liberties as merely arising from self-ownership is dangerous. If you are a full owner of something, then you can trade away control over it--full rights of property include the right to alienation. As such, you've got libertarian philosophers like Nozick arguing that a person would be able to permanently sell themselves into slavery. And if you reject that one's self-ownership can be alienated, then you've got to explain where the right to alienate acquired property comes from, because it certainly can't come from your inalienable self-ownership.

It's incredibly dangerous to say that basic liberties and rights precede from self-ownership, because liberties and control over one's body shouldn't be treated in the same way as a piece of property that can be traded and sold. They're inherent to the person, not to any ownership the person has in themselves.

Bodily sovereignty isn't the same thing as self-ownership. Conflating the two is nothing other than twisting language.

[Cekoviu]

This is an addition to my Antifa.red page:

“Radical” has become little more than an over–used smear word. Any descriptive significance it may have once conveyed was long ago clouded by the games of partisan politics. Whatever the language, libertarian and left communists are unreservedly extremists:

Semitic: mutaṭarrif (Arabic, مُتَطَرِّف), qiyṣōniy (Hebrew, קִיצוֹנִי), sꞌənəfäña (Amharic, ጽንፈኛ), sawpanaʾ (Syriac/Sūryayaʾ, ܣܵܘܦܵܢܵܐ), and estremisti (Maltese).

Indo–Iranian: ʾin°tihā pasan°da (Urdu, اِنْتِہَا پَسَنْدَ), ʾin°tihāpasan°d (Sindhi, اِنْتِهَاپَسَنْد), ʾif°rātí (Persian and Pashto, اِفْرَاطَی), ifrotgaro (Tajik, ифротгаро), kaṭaṛavādī (Guramukhi Punjabi, ਕੱਟੜਵਾਦੀ), ḱaṭaṛavādí (Shahmukhi Punjabi, کَٹَڑَوَادِی), ativādī (Hindi, अतिवादी), and caramapanthī (Bengali, চরমপন্থী).

Sinospheric: jíduān–fēnzi (Mandarin Chinese, 极端分子), kageki ha (Japanese, 過激派, かげき は, カゲキ ハ), h̄ạw runræng (Thai, หัวรุนแรง), kŭktan chuŭija (Korean, 극단 주의자), and một kẻ cực đoan (Vietnamese).

Italic: ultra (Latin, ultrā, extrémiste (French), extremista (Spanish), extremista (Portugese), extremista (Italian), and extremist (Romanian).

Germanic: Extremist (German), extremistische (Dutch), ekstremist (Danish), ekstremistisk (Norwegian), extremist (Swedish), and ekstremistiese (Afrikaans).

East Slavic: ékstremistskij (Russian, экстремистский) and ekstremíst (Ukrainian, екстреміст).

Finnic–Uralic: äärimmäisyysmies (Finnish) and äärmuslik (Estonian).

Austronesian: seorang ekstremis (Indonesian), lan ekstremis (Javanese), tuhinga o mua (Māori/Te Reo Māori), ka poʿe extremist (Hawaiian), and isang extremist (Filipino).

Turkic: aşırılıkçı (Turkish), ékstremisttik (Kyrgyz, экстремисттик), ekstremistik (Uzbek), and ifratçı (Azerbaijani).

constructed: ekstremisto (Esperanto), lölimik (Volapük), estremiste (Lingua Franca Nova/Elefen/LFN), extremista (Interlingua), ekstremist (Interslavic), extremiste (Sambahsa/Sambahsa–Mundialect), and extremarum partium fautor (Neo–Latin).

miscellaneous: cayraheġakan (Armenian, the lone survivor of the Thraco–Phrygian Indo–European sub–family, ծայրահեղական) and extremistḗs (Modern Greek εξτρεμιστής).

You're missing Inuktitut (Inuktitut: ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ) in that list.
also,
>including Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, and Vietnamese together when they aren't even related

[Pasong Tirad]

This is an addition to my Antifa.red page:

“Radical” has become little more than an over–used smear word. Any descriptive significance it may have once conveyed was long ago clouded by the games of partisan politics. Whatever the language, libertarian and left communists are unreservedly extremists:

Semitic: mutaṭarrif (Arabic, مُتَطَرِّف), qiyṣōniy (Hebrew, קִיצוֹנִי), sꞌənəfäña (Amharic, ጽንፈኛ), sawpanaʾ (Syriac/Sūryayaʾ, ܣܵܘܦܵܢܵܐ), and estremisti (Maltese).

Indo–Iranian: ʾin°tihā pasan°da (Urdu, اِنْتِہَا پَسَنْدَ), ʾin°tihāpasan°d (Sindhi, اِنْتِهَاپَسَنْد), ʾif°rātí (Persian and Pashto, اِفْرَاطَی), ifrotgaro (Tajik, ифротгаро), kaṭaṛavādī (Guramukhi Punjabi, ਕੱਟੜਵਾਦੀ), ḱaṭaṛavādí (Shahmukhi Punjabi, کَٹَڑَوَادِی), ativādī (Hindi, अतिवादी), and caramapanthī (Bengali, চরমপন্থী).

Sinospheric: jíduān–fēnzi (Mandarin Chinese, 极端分子), kageki ha (Japanese, 過激派, かげき は, カゲキ ハ), h̄ạw runræng (Thai, หัวรุนแรง), kŭktan chuŭija (Korean, 극단 주의자), and một kẻ cực đoan (Vietnamese).

Italic: ultra (Latin, ultrā, extrémiste (French), extremista (Spanish), extremista (Portugese), extremista (Italian), and extremist (Romanian).

Germanic: Extremist (German), extremistische (Dutch), ekstremist (Danish), ekstremistisk (Norwegian), extremist (Swedish), and ekstremistiese (Afrikaans).

East Slavic: ékstremistskij (Russian, экстремистский) and ekstremíst (Ukrainian, екстреміст).

Finnic–Uralic: äärimmäisyysmies (Finnish) and äärmuslik (Estonian).

Austronesian: seorang ekstremis (Indonesian), lan ekstremis (Javanese), tuhinga o mua (Māori/Te Reo Māori), ka poʿe extremist (Hawaiian), and isang extremist (Filipino).

Turkic: aşırılıkçı (Turkish), ékstremisttik (Kyrgyz, экстремисттик), ekstremistik (Uzbek), and ifratçı (Azerbaijani).

constructed: ekstremisto (Esperanto), lölimik (Volapük), estremiste (Lingua Franca Nova/Elefen/LFN), extremista (Interlingua), ekstremist (Interslavic), extremiste (Sambahsa/Sambahsa–Mundialect), and extremarum partium fautor (Neo–Latin).

miscellaneous: cayraheġakan (Armenian, the lone survivor of the Thraco–Phrygian Indo–European sub–family, ծայրահեղական) and extremistḗs (Modern Greek εξτρεμιστής).

Filipino feels a little forced. While technically correct, you're more likely to hear people use the term radikal (radical) or militante (militant) to describe extremists, rather than the actual word - but, more recently, there's been a kind of distinction between the two, whereas you're more likely to hear the term radikal being used for Islamist rebels, while militante is used more to describe various left-wing movements - from workers participating in a strike, to left-wing activists, to actually-armed left-wing rebels.

[Cekoviu]

This is an addition to my Antifa.red page:

“Radical” has become little more than an over–used smear word. Any descriptive significance it may have once conveyed was long ago clouded by the games of partisan politics. Whatever the language, libertarian and left communists are unreservedly extremists:

Semitic: mutaṭarrif (Arabic, مُتَطَرِّف), qiyṣōniy (Hebrew, קִיצוֹנִי), sꞌənəfäña (Amharic, ጽንፈኛ), sawpanaʾ (Syriac/Sūryayaʾ, ܣܵܘܦܵܢܵܐ), and estremisti (Maltese).

Indo–Iranian: ʾin°tihā pasan°da (Urdu, اِنْتِہَا پَسَنْدَ), ʾin°tihāpasan°d (Sindhi, اِنْتِهَاپَسَنْد), ʾif°rātí (Persian and Pashto, اِفْرَاطَی), ifrotgaro (Tajik, ифротгаро), kaṭaṛavādī (Guramukhi Punjabi, ਕੱਟੜਵਾਦੀ), ḱaṭaṛavādí (Shahmukhi Punjabi, کَٹَڑَوَادِی), ativādī (Hindi, अतिवादी), and caramapanthī (Bengali, চরমপন্থী).

Sinospheric: jíduān–fēnzi (Mandarin Chinese, 极端分子), kageki ha (Japanese, 過激派, かげき は, カゲキ ハ), h̄ạw runræng (Thai, หัวรุนแรง), kŭktan chuŭija (Korean, 극단 주의자), and một kẻ cực đoan (Vietnamese).

Italic: ultra (Latin, ultrā, extrémiste (French), extremista (Spanish), extremista (Portugese), extremista (Italian), and extremist (Romanian).

Germanic: Extremist (German), extremistische (Dutch), ekstremist (Danish), ekstremistisk (Norwegian), extremist (Swedish), and ekstremistiese (Afrikaans).

East Slavic: ékstremistskij (Russian, экстремистский) and ekstremíst (Ukrainian, екстреміст).

Finnic–Uralic: äärimmäisyysmies (Finnish) and äärmuslik (Estonian).

Austronesian: seorang ekstremis (Indonesian), lan ekstremis (Javanese), tuhinga o mua (Māori/Te Reo Māori), ka poʿe extremist (Hawaiian), and isang extremist (Filipino).

Turkic: aşırılıkçı (Turkish), ékstremisttik (Kyrgyz, экстремисттик), ekstremistik (Uzbek), and ifratçı (Azerbaijani).

constructed: ekstremisto (Esperanto), lölimik (Volapük), estremiste (Lingua Franca Nova/Elefen/LFN), extremista (Interlingua), ekstremist (Interslavic), extremiste (Sambahsa/Sambahsa–Mundialect), and extremarum partium fautor (Neo–Latin).

miscellaneous: cayraheġakan (Armenian, the lone survivor of the Thraco–Phrygian Indo–European sub–family, ծայրահեղական) and extremistḗs (Modern Greek εξτρεμιστής).

You're missing Inuktitut (Inuktitut: ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ) in that list.
also,
>including Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, and Vietnamese together when they aren't even related

Oh, and you should probably specify the dialect of Armenian you're using, because the transliteration would be incorrect for the Western Armenian dialect, which afaik is the most common form spoken in the diaspora.

[New yugoslavaia]

article 13 and 11 got passed apprantly.

I see 2 outcomes.

1. In the next elections of EU member nations, more people will vote for pirate parties.

2. People will riot, maybe destroying that horrible German-Frence rich mans club in the process.

Well, the good news is the left hate them, the right hate them...quite a few people don't like the EU.

[Ostroeuropa]

article 13 and 11 got passed apprantly.

I see 2 outcomes.

1. In the next elections of EU member nations, more people will vote for pirate parties.

2. People will riot, maybe destroying that horrible German-Frence rich mans club in the process.

Well, the good news is the left hate them, the right hate them...quite a few people don't like the EU.

Nationalist Europe time =3

[Dumb Ideologies]

article 13 and 11 got passed apprantly.

I see 2 outcomes.

1. In the next elections of EU member nations, more people will vote for pirate parties.

2. People will riot, maybe destroying that horrible German-Frence rich mans club in the process.

Well, the good news is the left hate them, the right hate them...quite a few people don't like the EU.

It's still got to clear a vote in the parliament itself, I thought?

More likely result if it does pass is the following:

3. People complain, get cold feet at the potential economic impacts of leaving, and in the end suck it up while posting the occasional passive-aggressive twitter comment.

It's what the system relies on. The incremental transfer of power to the centre until you've sleepwalked into a single federal state, infiltrated to its core by lobbyists who are now very pleased at having to only buy off one government that can get stuff done in one go rather than a couple of dozen national governments plus change.

[Cekoviu]

article 13 and 11 got passed apprantly.

I see 2 outcomes.

1. In the next elections of EU member nations, more people will vote for pirate parties.

2. People will riot, maybe destroying that horrible German-Frence rich mans club in the process.

Well, the good news is the left hate them, the right hate them...quite a few people don't like the EU.

The EU is fine. It's the pro-13/11 coalition that are the problem, and none of my preferred European parties are in that group. I do hope to see further success with pirate parties, which this could facilitate.

[Dumb Ideologies]

article 13 and 11 got passed apprantly.

I see 2 outcomes.

1. In the next elections of EU member nations, more people will vote for pirate parties.

2. People will riot, maybe destroying that horrible German-Frence rich mans club in the process.

Well, the good news is the left hate them, the right hate them...quite a few people don't like the EU.

The EU is fine. It's the pro-13/11 coalition that are the problem, and none of my preferred European parties are in that group. I do hope to see further success with pirate parties, which this could facilitate.

The leaders of pirate parties will probably find it very difficult to mount an effective opposition if it passes due to all the lawyering up they'll need to do to avoid jail!

It's also unlikely that they'll find much joy becomig mainstream with socialist and social liberal alliances as their hardline free speech libertarianism sets them firmly at odds with the powerful feminist lobby in each faction. If pirate parties are likely to ally with anyone their natural allies are the radical right or the populists.

[New yugoslavaia]

article 13 and 11 got passed apprantly.

I see 2 outcomes.

1. In the next elections of EU member nations, more people will vote for pirate parties.

2. People will riot, maybe destroying that horrible German-Frence rich mans club in the process.

Well, the good news is the left hate them, the right hate them...quite a few people don't like the EU.

Nationalist Europe time =3

As long as there are no genocides or mass denials of science then it's fine by me.

[Cekoviu]

The EU is fine. It's the pro-13/11 coalition that are the problem, and none of my preferred European parties are in that group. I do hope to see further success with pirate parties, which this could facilitate.

The leaders of pirate parties will probably find it very difficult to mount an effective opposition if it passes due to all the lawyering up they'll need to do to avoid jail!

It's also unlikely that they'll find much joy becomig mainstream with socialist and social liberal alliances as their hardline free speech libertarianism sets them firmly at odds with the powerful feminist lobby in each faction. If pirate parties are likely to ally with anyone their natural allies are the radical right or the populists.

I doubt it. Free software activism has mostly been left-wing, and that meshes well with their mission. I also don't really see how feminism has anything to do with being anti-Pirate, but okay.
I could see allying with populists in general, though.

[Benuty]

In terms of late responses this one takes the cake, but for utilizing aspects of authoritarianism for the most part it will be restricted to enforcing order within the habitable zones. I have in mind the ideals of a utopian police state if only because everything else will probably be hell so keeping the zones safe, and orderly will be a high priority. Any wanton nationalists or political ideologues on both sides who try to cause a mass reversion to the old order will be in for a sore surprise. Tim and sally can go warlording all they want in the wastes for all I care, but no one is going to be doing that in the habitation areas.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The leaders of pirate parties will probably find it very difficult to mount an effective opposition if it passes due to all the lawyering up they'll need to do to avoid jail!

It's also unlikely that they'll find much joy becomig mainstream with socialist and social liberal alliances as their hardline free speech libertarianism sets them firmly at odds with the powerful feminist lobby in each faction. If pirate parties are likely to ally with anyone their natural allies are the radical right or the populists.

I doubt it. Free software activism has mostly been left-wing, and that meshes well with their mission. I also don't really see how feminism has anything to do with being anti-Pirate, but okay.
I could see allying with populists in general, though.

Left increasingly favours regulations on an ever-expanding definition of hate speech and trolling. Pirate parties are fundamentally internet libertarians.

As alliances go, wow is that an uneasy one.

[-United Republic of Freedonia]

(Image)

Having lefty view at first, leaning more harder to the left as time goes. But then start to claim you're a fascist now, but still keeping some of your leftist ideals.