LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Dumb Ideologies]

The new Party program shall be "Socialism in one Shaker".

Seize-on (season) the means of production.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I'd agree with you on the sydicalists who're regulars here (me, Ostro, and Oily) being third position-ish. Ostro is probably the most "left" of us three in the sense of not being authoritarian and having a more balanced revolution/demsoc tendency, Oily being a self professed fascist, I lay somewhere between those two, being more authoritarian that Ostro while still being revolutionary unlike Oily.

I likewise, wouldn't recommend libertarianism in any form though. I don't believe it has the force necessary to reform society, nor keep it socialist if it somehow does.

That reads like a fair characterization. However, as you say, we come down on the sides of different theories which we would recommend to others.

[Cekoviu]

I like it, though not nationalist forms. I'm probably more of a Third Way socdem.

Third way social democracy is just centrism.

I disagree, though it's close. I would say the extent of my libertarianism puts me outside of the centrist area, anyway.

[Aillyria]

Hmm... arguably, couldn't it be seen at least as a stepping stone into more nuanced libertarian leftism?

Anything is possible. However, the history of syndicalism shows that it tends to drift to the right, not to the left.

Honest question DCF, why do you, from your academic standpoint, believe that is so? I didn't startout as a syndicalist, but a rather run-of-the-mill marxist-leninist. As I got older, I found myself more drawn to syndicalism until I decided it best fit me and what I thought socialism should look like.

*BTW I started my life as a socialist around 8th grade, happy to say that I've been evolving as a socialist for over half of my life by this point.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Honest question DCF, why do you, from your academic standpoint, believe that is so? I didn't startout as a syndicalist, but a rather run-of-the-mill marxist-leninist. As I got older, I found myself more drawn to syndicalism until I decided it best fit me and what I thought socialism should look like.

*BTW I started my life as a socialist around 8th grade, happy to say that I've been evolving as a socialist for over half of my life by this point.

I am basing what I wrote on the history of syndicalism itself, not any particular individuals. It also has nothing to do with being an academic. Syndicalism was started by Sorel as a left-wing movement, and it then moved to the right.

That said, anecdotally, of the syndicalists I have met, most moved left to right or rightish (like yourself), not right to left.

[Aillyria]

Honest question DCF, why do you, from your academic standpoint, believe that is so? I didn't startout as a syndicalist, but a rather run-of-the-mill marxist-leninist. As I got older, I found myself more drawn to syndicalism until I decided it best fit me and what I thought socialism should look like.

*BTW I started my life as a socialist around 8th grade, happy to say that I've been evolving as a socialist for over half of my life by this point.

I am basing what I wrote on the history of syndicalism itself, not any particular individuals. It also has nothing to do with being an academic. Syndicalism was started by Sorel as a left-wing movement, and it then moved to the right.

That said, anecdotally, of the syndicalists I have met, most moved left to right or rightish (like yourself), not right to left.

Believe it or not, I used to be much more rightwing. I've been drifting to the left for around the last half decade.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Believe it or not, I used to be much more rightwing. I've been drifting to the left for around the last half decade.

One of the features of third positionism is the fluctuation between right and left positions. In academia, we call them turns. I have had many myself, but all of them were on the far Left. They are a part of one's intellectual development and the sign of an active and inquisitive mind.

[Firaxin]

It seems my Ideology has shifted much farther left according to Political Compass and 8 values. I'm also apparently less nationalist as well. I am no longer labeled as a left-wing populist and now I'm labeled as a State Socialist.

8values results

Political Compass results

[Democratic Communist Federation]

It seems my Ideology has shifted much farther left according to Political Compass and 8 values. I'm also apparently less nationalist as well. I am no longer labeled as a left-wing populist and now I'm labeled as a State Socialist.

That is also a turn. Participating in online forums, like this one, can cause one to reflect on one's current positions and, sometimes, to change them.

[Cekoviu]

It seems my Ideology has shifted much farther left according to Political Compass and 8 values. I'm also apparently less nationalist as well. I am no longer labeled as a left-wing populist and now I'm labeled as a State Socialist.

That is also a turn. Participating in online forums, like this one, can cause one to reflect on one's current positions and, sometimes, to change them.

I started here as a socialist!

[Democratic Communist Federation]

FYI, I wrote this paper back when I was a Titoist. It is still revolutionary and extremist but not nearly as revolutionary and extremist as I am now.

[Reikoku]

Its pretty interesting that, in contrast to Communism which was mostly inspired by Marxist materialism, syndicalism seems to have been strongly inspired by Bergson's vitalist metaphysics. This metaphysical philosophy appealed to the praxis of the syndicalists, who emphasized spontaneity over the solid programme of parties. One example is the Australian novel Sugar Heaven where the protagonist is converted to socialism not by rational arguments, but from the élan vital which reinvigorates her life.

Emotion swayed her; rippled through her body and limbs. She knew that there in the bright sunlight she had crossed a rubicon. And some secret force, some innermost potency, doubtessly bequeathed at birth but hitherto unsuspected, quickened and pervaded her whole spirit. And suddenly she astounded Gladys and brought every eye in the vicinity upon her by crying “If you must lose the strike lose it fighting! Don't give in to them! Let their cane rot in their fields! That will teach them!”

FYI, I wrote this paper back when I was a Titoist. It is still revolutionary and extremist but not nearly as revolutionary and extremist as I am now.

Yes, you're definitely an extremist. We're quivering in our reactionary boots, Professor.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It all depends on what kind of democracy do you support.

Democratic centralism or pluralistic democracy?

I support Autocracy.

Why?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

A fair and realistic world in my opinion. Just to dispel some ideas about me.

*There should be a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which should be heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care. The government mandates vaccination for all children no-opt out enforceable by fines.

*Gender Neutral (aka both sexes) conscription for 2 years.

*There should be a well funded public school system from childcare to university or college plus heavily regulated private institutions. Under no circumstances should charter schools, faith schools or gender segregation schools exist.

*Universal curriculum followed by all public and private schools including Sex education after age 12, teaching evolution not creationism and some others that ain't coming up in my mind.

*All candidates should receive public funds but not be allowed to accept donations of any kind.

*All citizens should be mandatory issued with identity cards but not be required to carry them at age 12.

*Abortion should be allowed during the first and second trimesters after that they should carry to term except if there is a medical emergency.

*The government provides funding for abortions. There should be doctors able to do the operation in all major public hospitals. No private abortion clinics allowed.

*The government should offer free contraceptives in pharmacies and public toilets.

*Euthanasia should only allowed with consent from the patient and a court order.

*Companies must clearly label food and beverage products, in a manner that can be easily understood. Any chemicals used in agriculture or processing, and any GM ingredients must be listed. All ingredients and corresponding nutritional information must be listed. The government introduces, and actively enforces, food standards provisions.

*The government should fund gender reassignment surgery for people with low incomes.

*The government should introduce and actively regulates health and safety legislation in all areas of industry.

*IVF is legal and regulated in terms of the applicant's condition and procedural circumstances. No fucking octomoms.

*The use of cannabis is legal. Along with some other natural drugs.

*The government should pay partially for all citizens' pharmaceutical drugs, and pay entirely for those of low income citizens.

*Smoking should be legal outdoors and in private homes and clubs, but illegal indoors in all places of employment. Only adults may purchase tobacco.

*All sports clubs should be government owned and run. Primarily to stop the rich people from laundering their money that way.

*Surrogacy is legal, and surrogacy agreements are enforceable. Only altruistic surrogacy is legal.

*The government operates a central bank and all other banks are private. The government appoints the head of the central bank and an executive board to manage the central bank and can interfere with its operations.

*Child labour is forbidden.

*Only open shops are legal.

*Public and private sector employees have the right to collectively bargain

*Cryptocurrency is legal and regulated, the state will issue it's own cryptocurrency.

*The government obligates trade unions and employers to negotiate the daily number of working hours.

*Energy is provided by nationalised companies.

*The exchange rate of the national currency is kept within a defined band of fluctuation.

*Professionals may run licensed fireworks shows, small fireworks are legal to the general public.

*Employers cannot fire workers who have gone on strike.

*Foreign nationals are treated the same as native citizens when searching for employment.

*Foreign investors may invest in national companies, but may not get a majority share.

*Gambling is legal, but only in private homes and casinos with special licences. Sports gambling is illegal.

*Only regulated agribusinesses may produce industrial hemp.

*The government acts as an investor of last resort, by nationalizing failing industries that provide vital goods or services.

*Trade unions should exist in all industries and all workers must have membership in one.

*Labour unions and organizations of employers negotiate a salary cap.

*There shall be a minimum wage at a level considered a "living wage," well above the poverty line for a full time worker.

*Monopolies are forbidden, and are actively broken up.

*All enterprises are required to cover basic payroll contributions for their employees.

*The state subsidizes the phone service of low income families, and regulates the rates providers can charge for phone service.

*Pornography depicting consenting adults is legal for everyone. The production of pornography is treated as any other business.

*The government encourages positive discrimination and enforces it for government hiring.

*There should be a state monopoly on prostitution.

*Recreational drugs sales are handled by private foundations which are heavily regulated by the government.

*Any trade union can go on a sympathy strike in support of other striking workers. All workers have the right to strike. Trade unions must by law hold a ballot of all members before going on strike, majority approval of those that vote is needed from its members.

*The government owns the stock exchange(s).

*The government encourages the formation of Democratic Workers' Councils through subsidies and tax exemptions.

These are some of the things I want to happen in real life.

Some of that is alright, but I object to the more socially liberal aspects. I would ban recreational drugs, including marijuana, ban abortion except in cases of rape or danger to the life of the mother, and ban prostitution and pornography (except possibly animated pornography). Also, I think either private faith schools should be permitted or religious instruction should be included in state schools.

Of course you do. Why do you even dislike socially liberal ideas?

[Firaxin]

I support Autocracy.

Why?

Unity of vision
Clarity of movement politically
Faster decision making
Idiocracy hopefully avoided

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Anything is possible. However, the history of syndicalism shows that it tends to drift to the right, not to the left.

Honest question DCF, why do you, from your academic standpoint, believe that is so? I didn't startout as a syndicalist, but a rather run-of-the-mill marxist-leninist. As I got older, I found myself more drawn to syndicalism until I decided it best fit me and what I thought socialism should look like.

*BTW I started my life as a socialist around 8th grade, happy to say that I've been evolving as a socialist for over half of my life by this point.

TFW a mere quarter of my life ago, I wasn't political at all. I feel young now.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So, what's the status of the world.

If the regressive left is "dead", then how do we beat the alt-right? Punching them?

Yes.

No.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So, what's the status of the world.

If the regressive left is "dead", then how do we beat the alt-right? Punching them?

Populism is on the rise.

Populism leads to "Greater Good" thought.

"Greater Good" thought leads to the left (or Fascism.)

We've already won.

And you actually support greater good thought, do you?

[Aillyria]

Its pretty interesting that, in contrast to Communism which was mostly inspired by Marxist materialism, syndicalism seems to have been strongly inspired by Bergson's vitalist metaphysics. This metaphysical philosophy appealed to the praxis of the syndicalists, who emphasized spontaneity over the solid programme of parties. One example is the Australian novel Sugar Heaven where the protagonist is converted to socialism not by rational arguments, but from the élan vital which reinvigorates her life.

Emotion swayed her; rippled through her body and limbs. She knew that there in the bright sunlight she had crossed a rubicon. And some secret force, some innermost potency, doubtessly bequeathed at birth but hitherto unsuspected, quickened and pervaded her whole spirit. And suddenly she astounded Gladys and brought every eye in the vicinity upon her by crying “If you must lose the strike lose it fighting! Don't give in to them! Let their cane rot in their fields! That will teach them!”

FYI, I wrote this paper back when I was a Titoist. It is still revolutionary and extremist but not nearly as revolutionary and extremist as I am now.

Yes, you're definitely an extremist. We're quivering in our reactionary boots, Professor.

I can definitely attest to that, I am attracted to the metaphysical and vitalist aspects of syndicalism, as a deeply spiritual and emotive person.

[Reikoku]

(except possibly animated pornography).

“Porn should be banned... except if its the kind I like.”

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why?

Unity of vision
Clarity of movement politically
Faster decision making
Idiocracy hopefully avoided

Unity of vision is unattainable, authoritarian and antithetical to modern society.
What?
Faster decision making is not as important as accurate, multilateral, inclusive decision making.
I'd rather be ruled by idiots than tyrants (as is what inevitably happens when you give one person absolute power). The worst idiot would rule pick a random decision on each policy. A tyrant would pick the wrong decision every time.

[Firaxin]

Populism is on the rise.

Populism leads to "Greater Good" thought.

"Greater Good" thought leads to the left (or Fascism.)

We've already won.

And you actually support greater good thought, do you?

Pretty much, yeah.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

And you actually support greater good thought, do you?

Pretty much, yeah.

Excuse me while I vomit. Greater good thought is literally the worst. It's a parody of the worst aspects of consequentialist absolutism. "Greater good" is a strawman in and of itself, saying you support it is like saying "I'm antifeminist because I hate women" or "I'm a Socialist because I want your toothbrush."

[West Leas Oros]

(except possibly animated pornography).

“Porn should be banned... except if its the kind I like.”

Anime porn is great, all praise glorious People’s Hentai

[Firaxin]

Pretty much, yeah.

Excuse me while I vomit. Greater good thought is literally the worst. It's a parody of the worst aspects of consequentialist absolutism. "Greater good" is a strawman in and of itself, saying you support it is like saying "I'm antifeminist because I hate women" or "I'm a Socialist because I want your toothbrush."

The Greater Good does not always have to be accomplished through bad actions, and a good means with good ends should always be prioritized, even if it's slower.