LWDT V: Completing the Five Thread Plan

[Asherahan]

It all depends on what kind of democracy do you support.

Democratic centralism or pluralistic democracy?

I support Autocracy.

Dictatorial? Monarchical? Republican?

[Jackania yugo]

So, most people here are reds?

Then what's the RWDT full of? Nazis?

This is really bad if both main political discussion threads are taken up by extremists from both sides.

>implying extremism is necessarily bad

Ooh, I want better rights for oppressed and poor people. I'm such a dangerous extremist!

Then why did communism fail. Oh yes, because of some greedy fuck who basically turned it into a worse form of capitalism.
And it wasn't just the soviet union, it was also all (or most) of the other communist governments that have existed.
China, Cuba, North Korea...the list goes on. Not to mention it caused a "war" that could of resulted in a world ending nuclear exchange if not for careful political manoeuvring from both sides.

[Asherahan]

>implying extremism is necessarily bad

Ooh, I want better rights for oppressed and poor people. I'm such a dangerous extremist!

Then why did communism fail. Oh yes, because of some greedy fuck who basically turned it into a worse form of capitalism.
And it wasn't just the soviet union, it was also all (or most) of the other communist governments that have existed.
China, Cuba, North Korea...the list goes on. Not to mention it caused a "war" that could of resulted in a world ending nuclear exchange if not for careful political manoeuvring from both sides.

*Hem* Imperialism*Hem*

That is one of the many things capitalism set in motion. Nothing is perfect. Worst case scenario is you try again but better. Shame capitalism stopped doing that.

[Torrocca]

>implying extremism is necessarily bad

Ooh, I want better rights for oppressed and poor people. I'm such a dangerous extremist!

Then why did communism fail. Oh yes, because of some greedy fuck who basically turned it into a worse form of capitalism.
And it wasn't just the soviet union, it was also all (or most) of the other communist governments that have existed.
China, Cuba, North Korea...the list goes on. Not to mention it caused a "war" that could of resulted in a world ending nuclear exchange if not for careful political manoeuvring from both sides.

Communism's literally not the only extreme form of leftism, and besides that I'm not a Communist and especially not a Marxist-Leninist.

[Jackania yugo]

Then why did communism fail. Oh yes, because of some greedy fuck who basically turned it into a worse form of capitalism.
And it wasn't just the soviet union, it was also all (or most) of the other communist governments that have existed.
China, Cuba, North Korea...the list goes on. Not to mention it caused a "war" that could of resulted in a world ending nuclear exchange if not for careful political manoeuvring from both sides.

Communism's literally not the only extreme form of leftism, and besides that I'm not a Communist and especially not a Marxist-Leninist.

I know, there's also anarchism.

Anyway, what do you think of centrism?

[Torrocca]

Communism's literally not the only extreme form of leftism, and besides that I'm not a Communist and especially not a Marxist-Leninist.

I know, there's also anarchism.

Anyway, what do you think of centrism?

It's too indecisive and ineffectual as an ideology.

[Asherahan]

Communism's literally not the only extreme form of leftism, and besides that I'm not a Communist and especially not a Marxist-Leninist.

I know, there's also anarchism.

Anyway, what do you think of centrism?

It sucks having no opinion either than appeasement and upholding the status quo.

[New Emeline]

Communism's literally not the only extreme form of leftism, and besides that I'm not a Communist and especially not a Marxist-Leninist.

I know, there's also anarchism.

Anyway, what do you think of centrism?

No real strong opinions toward it either way

[Firaxin]

I support Autocracy.

Dictatorial? Monarchical? Republican?

Ideally, the autocrat is determined via trial by fire. Anyone can voluntarily enter the trial. I have yet to decide what exactly the trial is though.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

So, most people here are reds?

Then what's the RWDT full of? Nazis?

This is really bad if both main political discussion threads are taken up by extremists from both sides.

Yes, I am a red, a commie, and an extremist. In your eyes, I suppose that makes me bad. I am pleased.

[Asherahan]

Dictatorial? Monarchical? Republican?

Ideally, the autocrat is determined via trial by fire. Anyone can voluntarily enter the trial. I have yet to decide what exactly the trial is though.

How about fire?

[Jackania yugo]

what do you think of social democracy. I think that's as far left as I go.

[West Leas Oros]

So, most people here are reds?

Then what's the RWDT full of? Nazis?

This is really bad if both main political discussion threads are taken up by extremists from both sides.

If by red you mean collective ownership of the means of production, then yes. Otherwise, probably not.

[Firaxin]

Ideally, the autocrat is determined via trial by fire. Anyone can voluntarily enter the trial. I have yet to decide what exactly the trial is though.

How about fire?

Not good enough at determining their quality as a leader. The most plausible for me so far is a hyper realistic 4x simulation against the other volunteers and A.I.

[Liriena]

In Harry Potter they'd support all-round gud boi the Dark Lord as his work overthrew the semi-democracy sham in which only old families were represented, cynically used the pureblood fanatics as footsoldiers, many of them dying in the process, subjugated them to the will of a strong leader through use of the Dark Mark, and avoided the risk of future weak leaders reversing on the progress by taking measures to become a genuine Eternal Leader.

Harry Potter is why Blairites shouldn't write fiction.

I still love the books... but good gawd is JK Rowling a prime example of why "death of the author" is a good idea.

[Bienenhalde]

So, most people here are reds?

Then what's the RWDT full of? Nazis?

This is really bad if both main political discussion threads are taken up by extremists from both sides.

Most people in the RWDT are not Nazis. Oil-Exporting Peoples is a self-identified fascist, but he does not even post in the RWDT that frequently.

[Cekoviu]

A fair and realistic world in my opinion. Just to dispel some ideas about me.

*There should be a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which should be heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care. The government mandates vaccination for all children no-opt out enforceable by fines.

*Gender Neutral (aka both sexes) conscription for 2 years.

*There should be a well funded public school system from childcare to university or college plus heavily regulated private institutions. Under no circumstances should charter schools, faith schools or gender segregation schools exist.

*Universal curriculum followed by all public and private schools including Sex education after age 12, teaching evolution not creationism and some others that ain't coming up in my mind.

*All candidates should receive public funds but not be allowed to accept donations of any kind.

*All citizens should be mandatory issued with identity cards but not be required to carry them at age 12.

*Abortion should be allowed during the first and second trimesters after that they should carry to term except if there is a medical emergency.

*The government provides funding for abortions. There should be doctors able to do the operation in all major public hospitals. No private abortion clinics allowed.

*The government should offer free contraceptives in pharmacies and public toilets.

*Euthanasia should only allowed with consent from the patient and a court order.

*Companies must clearly label food and beverage products, in a manner that can be easily understood. Any chemicals used in agriculture or processing, and any GM ingredients must be listed. All ingredients and corresponding nutritional information must be listed. The government introduces, and actively enforces, food standards provisions.

*The government should fund gender reassignment surgery for people with low incomes.

*The government should introduce and actively regulates health and safety legislation in all areas of industry.

*IVF is legal and regulated in terms of the applicant's condition and procedural circumstances. No fucking octomoms.

*The use of cannabis is legal. Along with some other natural drugs.

*The government should pay partially for all citizens' pharmaceutical drugs, and pay entirely for those of low income citizens.

*Smoking should be legal outdoors and in private homes and clubs, but illegal indoors in all places of employment. Only adults may purchase tobacco.

*All sports clubs should be government owned and run. Primarily to stop the rich people from laundering their money that way.

*Surrogacy is legal, and surrogacy agreements are enforceable. Only altruistic surrogacy is legal.

*The government operates a central bank and all other banks are private. The government appoints the head of the central bank and an executive board to manage the central bank and can interfere with its operations.

*Child labour is forbidden.

*Only open shops are legal.

*Public and private sector employees have the right to collectively bargain

*Cryptocurrency is legal and regulated, the state will issue it's own cryptocurrency.

*The government obligates trade unions and employers to negotiate the daily number of working hours.

*Energy is provided by nationalised companies.

*The exchange rate of the national currency is kept within a defined band of fluctuation.

*Professionals may run licensed fireworks shows, small fireworks are legal to the general public.

*Employers cannot fire workers who have gone on strike.

*Foreign nationals are treated the same as native citizens when searching for employment.

*Foreign investors may invest in national companies, but may not get a majority share.

*Gambling is legal, but only in private homes and casinos with special licences. Sports gambling is illegal.

*Only regulated agribusinesses may produce industrial hemp.

*The government acts as an investor of last resort, by nationalizing failing industries that provide vital goods or services.

*Trade unions should exist in all industries and all workers must have membership in one.

*Labour unions and organizations of employers negotiate a salary cap.

*There shall be a minimum wage at a level considered a "living wage," well above the poverty line for a full time worker.

*Monopolies are forbidden, and are actively broken up.

*All enterprises are required to cover basic payroll contributions for their employees.

*The state subsidizes the phone service of low income families, and regulates the rates providers can charge for phone service.

*Pornography depicting consenting adults is legal for everyone. The production of pornography is treated as any other business.

*The government encourages positive discrimination and enforces it for government hiring.

*There should be a state monopoly on prostitution.

*Recreational drugs sales are handled by private foundations which are heavily regulated by the government.

*Any trade union can go on a sympathy strike in support of other striking workers. All workers have the right to strike. Trade unions must by law hold a ballot of all members before going on strike, majority approval of those that vote is needed from its members.

*The government owns the stock exchange(s).

*The government encourages the formation of Democratic Workers' Councils through subsidies and tax exemptions.

These are some of the things I want to happen in real life.

Part of that is horrifying and part of it is great.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

what do you think of social democracy. I think that's as far left as I go.

I despise it.

[Asherahan]

A fair and realistic world in my opinion. Just to dispel some ideas about me.

*There should be a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which should be heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care. The government mandates vaccination for all children no-opt out enforceable by fines.

*Gender Neutral (aka both sexes) conscription for 2 years.

*There should be a well funded public school system from childcare to university or college plus heavily regulated private institutions. Under no circumstances should charter schools, faith schools or gender segregation schools exist.

*Universal curriculum followed by all public and private schools including Sex education after age 12, teaching evolution not creationism and some others that ain't coming up in my mind.

*All candidates should receive public funds but not be allowed to accept donations of any kind.

*All citizens should be mandatory issued with identity cards but not be required to carry them at age 12.

*Abortion should be allowed during the first and second trimesters after that they should carry to term except if there is a medical emergency.

*The government provides funding for abortions. There should be doctors able to do the operation in all major public hospitals. No private abortion clinics allowed.

*The government should offer free contraceptives in pharmacies and public toilets.

*Euthanasia should only allowed with consent from the patient and a court order.

*Companies must clearly label food and beverage products, in a manner that can be easily understood. Any chemicals used in agriculture or processing, and any GM ingredients must be listed. All ingredients and corresponding nutritional information must be listed. The government introduces, and actively enforces, food standards provisions.

*The government should fund gender reassignment surgery for people with low incomes.

*The government should introduce and actively regulates health and safety legislation in all areas of industry.

*IVF is legal and regulated in terms of the applicant's condition and procedural circumstances. No fucking octomoms.

*The use of cannabis is legal. Along with some other natural drugs.

*The government should pay partially for all citizens' pharmaceutical drugs, and pay entirely for those of low income citizens.

*Smoking should be legal outdoors and in private homes and clubs, but illegal indoors in all places of employment. Only adults may purchase tobacco.

*All sports clubs should be government owned and run. Primarily to stop the rich people from laundering their money that way.

*Surrogacy is legal, and surrogacy agreements are enforceable. Only altruistic surrogacy is legal.

*The government operates a central bank and all other banks are private. The government appoints the head of the central bank and an executive board to manage the central bank and can interfere with its operations.

*Child labour is forbidden.

*Only open shops are legal.

*Public and private sector employees have the right to collectively bargain

*Cryptocurrency is legal and regulated, the state will issue it's own cryptocurrency.

*The government obligates trade unions and employers to negotiate the daily number of working hours.

*Energy is provided by nationalised companies.

*The exchange rate of the national currency is kept within a defined band of fluctuation.

*Professionals may run licensed fireworks shows, small fireworks are legal to the general public.

*Employers cannot fire workers who have gone on strike.

*Foreign nationals are treated the same as native citizens when searching for employment.

*Foreign investors may invest in national companies, but may not get a majority share.

*Gambling is legal, but only in private homes and casinos with special licences. Sports gambling is illegal.

*Only regulated agribusinesses may produce industrial hemp.

*The government acts as an investor of last resort, by nationalizing failing industries that provide vital goods or services.

*Trade unions should exist in all industries and all workers must have membership in one.

*Labour unions and organizations of employers negotiate a salary cap.

*There shall be a minimum wage at a level considered a "living wage," well above the poverty line for a full time worker.

*Monopolies are forbidden, and are actively broken up.

*All enterprises are required to cover basic payroll contributions for their employees.

*The state subsidizes the phone service of low income families, and regulates the rates providers can charge for phone service.

*Pornography depicting consenting adults is legal for everyone. The production of pornography is treated as any other business.

*The government encourages positive discrimination and enforces it for government hiring.

*There should be a state monopoly on prostitution.

*Recreational drugs sales are handled by private foundations which are heavily regulated by the government.

*Any trade union can go on a sympathy strike in support of other striking workers. All workers have the right to strike. Trade unions must by law hold a ballot of all members before going on strike, majority approval of those that vote is needed from its members.

*The government owns the stock exchange(s).

*The government encourages the formation of Democratic Workers' Councils through subsidies and tax exemptions.

These are some of the things I want to happen in real life.

Part of that is horrifying and part of it is great.

Where is the split though? 50/50 60/40? Which part is horrifying and which great?

[Cekoviu]

So, most people here are reds?

Not really. Most of us seem to be authoritarian socialists, social democrats, or anarcho-/libertarian communists, two of which aren't really "red".

Then what's the RWDT full of? Nazis?

It's an odd bunch, most of whom aren't Nazis.

This is really bad if both main political discussion threads are taken up by extremists from both sides.

There's a centrist discussion thread for you. It's boring and half-dead, though just like centrism.

[Liriena]

Depends on the fantasy world, I guess.

In Game of Thrones I like to think they would support the Swallows or Brotherhood Without Banners. Most likely it would be Stannis or Daenrys who can offer the political stability in which social progress can occur.

It did bother me a bit how the show adapted the High Sparrow and his supporters. While the novels make it quite clear that they are fairly strict religious fundamentalists, not unlike Savonarola, the show really glossed over the socioeconomic dimension of their rise to power (which arguably made them more sympathetic) and pushed hard on the "ISIS of Westeros" angle. It felt a bit gratuitous and manipulative, specially when it came to their homophobia.

[Asherahan]

How about fire?

Not good enough at determining their quality as a leader. The most plausible for me so far is a hyper realistic 4x simulation against the other volunteers and A.I.

Please no. I don't wanna become worker 1337# in a 4x game.

[Jackania yugo]

So, what's the status of the world.

If the regressive left is "dead", then how do we beat the alt-right? Punching them?

[New Emeline]

So, what's the status of the world.

If the regressive left is "dead", then how do we beat the alt-right? Punching them?

?

[Cekoviu]

Part of that is horrifying and part of it is great.

Where is the split though? 50/50 60/40? Which part is horrifying and which great?

Free contraceptives, legal pornography, free SRS, minimum wage, etc. are good; state-issued cryptocurrency, government-owned stock exchange, positive discrimination, etc. are bad. It's probably like a 60/40 split good-bad.