UK Labour Women Mass Resignation

[Vassenor]

I'm sure those statistics must be easy for you to provide in support of your claim.

I would also like to see these statistics.

Mainly because almost all the rhetoric against transpeople and bathrooms has been against transwomen infiltrating women's bathrooms to do <nefarious things>. You don't hear much about the reverse.

That's mostly because transmen seem to get erased from the discourse in general.

[Jelmatt]

I don't think so, considering women statistically tend to be more liberal and accepting of trans people and OK with trans women in, say, women's restrooms than men are.

I'm sure those statistics must be easy for you to provide in support of your claim.

Ask and ye shall receive.

British Social Attitudes survey, section on attitudes towards moral issues:

Who is most and least likely to be accepting of people who are transgender?

Women are more likely than men to condemn prejudice against transgender people (58% of women say it is "always wrong," compared with 46% of men).

In addition, slightly more women report being quite comfortable (25%) or very comfortable (47%) with transgender women using womens' restrooms compared to men being quite (24%) or very (41%) comfortable with trans men using mens' restrooms:

For both sexes a majority say they are comfortable with a transgender person using a public toilet according to their gender identity (Table 5). Women tend to be more comfortable with this than men, with 72% of women saying they are “very” or “quite comfortable” with a transgender woman using a female toilet, compared with 64% of men saying they are comfortable with a transgender man using male toilets.

[Galloism]

I'm sure those statistics must be easy for you to provide in support of your claim.

Ask and ye shall receive.

British Social Attitudes survey, section on attitudes towards moral issues:

Who is most and least likely to be accepting of people who are transgender?

Women are more likely than men to condemn prejudice against transgender people (58% of women sya it is "always wrong," compared with 46% of men).

In addition, slightly more women report being quite comfortable (25%) or very comfortable (47%) with transgender women using womens' restrooms compared to men being quite (24%) or very (41%) comfortable with trans men using mens' restrooms.

Huh. That is interesting. Percentages are fairly close, but there is a noticeable gap.

Thank you.

[Aillyria]

Men who identify as females should be allowed on to Labour's All Women Short lists.

This mass resignation is just stupid.

Nah, I agree with the OP on this one. You shouldn't be legally considered female unless you've transitioned.

[Ifreann]

Men who identify as females should be allowed on to Labour's All Women Short lists.

This mass resignation is just stupid.

Nah, I agree with the OP on this one. You shouldn't be legally considered female unless you've transitioned.

Because there are so many legal benefits to being female, we couldn't let just anyone declare themselves female.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Wow. I didn't know there were so many TERFs in the UKLP.

Seems to be a problem with so many TERFs being in the UK in general.

No, I want to "destroy" AWSL because - like I already said - it is patronising, regressive, undemocratic and implies most women are incapable of reaching political office without handouts. The fact it would also help stamp out transphobic bigotry is a bonus.

From my (admittedly American) understanding, your whole election process is that you don't vote for a candidate, you vote for a party, and the party assigns people to fill the seats. Seems to me like complaining about all-women shortlists being undemocratic is rather moot.

Now that you mention it, yeah, there does seem to be quite a large amount of Brits comprising the TERFs I can think of.

[Imperializt Russia]

Women fail to reach political office for a long list of reasons. Your phrasing makes it sound like you believe this is due to personal factors and choices - not running, not being good enough, doubting their own self-confidence.

Personal choice has to be a factor. We know it's a factor in STEM as there is evidence of a inverse relationship between gender equality and % of women in STEM.

The extent to which it is a meaningful "choice" is pretty hotly debated.

If a girl at school is belittled in science class by her science teacher during the brief part of education where it's mandatory, there's probably a decent chance they'll not really want to progress their science education.
That's not a choice. No more than social repression is.

As for doubting their own self-confidence...that's entirely possible, and there might be factors that play into that. I'd submit telling women (who apparently according to you have a lack of confidence)

what

that the big bad boogey-patriarch living under their bed

hmm, cute

is going to come out at night and rape them is not going to be a good way to help resolve that.

...
the fuck, dude

But lets actually look at what I said:

fucking rich

It's patronising for a number of reasons, not just because it asks the question why shortlist advocates consider women incapable of getting elected on their own merits.

Because elections aren't a meritocracy.

It's regressive because it assumes women are infantile, unable to get to the top without help, yet we've had 2 women Prime Ministers - from the only mainstream party not to impose shortlists.

It doesn't, but whatever.
Yes. One party has had two women prime ministers. Good for them.
They have, however, even as far back as Thatcher, had a dearth of women supporters, candidates and staffers, and still do have a severe "old boys club" with limited female access to many top jobs, which I argue is substantially more meaningful and important than having one woman in the top job.
Diversity of thought, not tokenism, I thought you hated that shit?

It's undemocratic because it eliminates the freedom of choice from constituents to choose the best candidate.

No, all-women shortlists ensure that women end up in the field. They don't eliminate the possibility of male candidates.

Why are you here?

Any how many MP's are trans? From ethnic minorities? From other religions? What makes women so deserving of special protections and a leg up, more so than these other demographics? Do you have evidence that women need shortlists but the others do not?

And we're making strides on all three, please note that "women" also make up a large number of all of those categories?

Heck, you have socialist leanings, why are there no quota for lower income candidates? Are they more or less worthy of special protections than your average female Labour candidate?

It's not income that is the problem in politics, but financial interests and disconnect.

Are you going to repeat the point that Corbyn has a "wealth" of nigh on a million pounds?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Personal choice has to be a factor. We know it's a factor in STEM as there is evidence of a inverse relationship between gender equality and % of women in STEM.

The extent to which it is a meaningful "choice" is pretty hotly debated.

If a girl at school is belittled in science class by her science teacher during the brief part of education where it's mandatory, there's probably a decent chance they'll not really want to progress their science education.
That's not a choice. No more than social repression is.

Are you implying that girls are generally belittled in science class in comparison to men?

[Imperializt Russia]

The extent to which it is a meaningful "choice" is pretty hotly debated.

If a girl at school is belittled in science class by her science teacher during the brief part of education where it's mandatory, there's probably a decent chance they'll not really want to progress their science education.
That's not a choice. No more than social repression is.

Are you implying that girls are generally belittled in science class in comparison to men?

Are you implying that men are disproportionately pressured, advertently and inadvertently, which discourages them from pursuing STEM?

[The Parkus Empire]

Whatever keeps Corbyn's Labour weak and ineffectual, I'm for.

This.

I would really like to see Blue Labour's voice grow.

[Vassenor]

Whatever keeps Corbyn's Labour weak and ineffectual, I'm for.

This.

I would really like to see Blue Labour's voice grow.

Why?

[Central Asian Republics]

Though I don't believe there should be all-female shortlists at all, the Labour party ought to stick to their principles and let these men who identify as women in their special little group, after all they have been spewing this intersectional feminist nonsense for years.

[The Parkus Empire]

This.

I would really like to see Blue Labour's voice grow.

Why?

I am a tremendous fan of John Milbank, and I think Blue Labour is far preferable to the spineless state of the Tories

[Vassenor]

Why?

I am a tremendous fan of John Milbank, and I think Blue Labour is far preferable to the spineless state of the Tories

...So how is theology-based government a good thing?

[The Parkus Empire]

I am a tremendous fan of John Milbank, and I think Blue Labour is far preferable to the spineless state of the Tories

...So how is theology-based government a good thing?

All government in the west is theology-based, I suggest you read Political Theology: Four Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty . Also check out my bois Bonald and Donoso Cortes

[Tahar Joblis]

Personal choice has to be a factor. We know it's a factor in STEM as there is evidence of a inverse relationship between gender equality and % of women in STEM.

The extent to which it is a meaningful "choice" is pretty hotly debated.

If a girl at school is belittled in science class by her science teacher during the brief part of education where it's mandatory, there's probably a decent chance they'll not really want to progress their science education.

That's not a choice. No more than social repression is.

There is little to no reason to believe that teachers push girls away from science by belittling them in the countries with high levels of gender equity.

To the contrary, teachers tend to to push girls towards the STEM fields that are still male-dominated. (Note that women make up a majority of those studying in some scientific areas, e.g., bio.)

Women not running for office, similarly, has a lot to do with personal choice, and one of the factors at play is feminists pushing the myth that women candidates are at an electoral disadvantage.

In the last few decades, feminists have done more to discourage women from running for political office in the UK / US / etc than teachers have done to discourage girls from studying math in those countries.

[Mike the Progressive]

This.

I would really like to see Blue Labour's voice grow.

Why?

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[Albrenia]

...So how is theology-based government a good thing?

All government in the west is theology-based, I suggest you read Political Theology: Four Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty . Also check out my bois Bonald and Donoso Cortes

Theology-based, rather loosely at best I'd say.

[Ostroeuropa]

Upon reflection i'm not happy these people resigned, though I disagree with their outlook. We could have used their money, as well as their activism, while just agreeing that on this issue, they had lost the internal battle. Purism in the modern era of austerity and such is short sighted imo.

I am not convinced that working class, underclass, disabled, minority, etc, trans persons, were served by their resignation. Being trans is an aspect of their existence, but not the totality of it, and the perception that this is something to terminate relationships over rather than something to discuss and tolerate from eachother (With faith that discussion and toleration will trend toward progress) is not only harmful societally, but electorally, if voters perceive that their views are not accepted by the Labour party.

On the other hand, they resigned, they weren't expelled. There is little we can do about that except express disappointment.

[Grenartia]

...So how is theology-based government a good thing?

All government in the west is theology-based, I suggest you read Political Theology: Four Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty . Also check out my bois Bonald and Donoso Cortes

"ALL WESTERN GOVERNMENTS ARE THEOLOGIES! THIS ONE RANDOM BOOK SOME RANDOM GUY WROTE AND THESE TWO OTHER RANDOS SAID SO! IT MUST BE TRUE!"

That's you, Parkus. That's basically what you just said.

[The East Marches II]

All government in the west is theology-based, I suggest you read Political Theology: Four Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty . Also check out my bois Bonald and Donoso Cortes

"ALL WESTERN GOVERNMENTS ARE THEOLOGIES! THIS ONE RANDOM BOOK SOME RANDOM GUY WROTE AND THESE TWO OTHER RANDOS SAID SO! IT MUST BE TRUE!"

That's you, Parkus. That's basically what you just said.

I hope one day I too can dismiss arguments so blithely. I don't blame you for not wanting to be related to the religious sorts but given your ideas, it's fair game to classify them in the same category.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Are you implying that girls are generally belittled in science class in comparison to men?

Are you implying that men are disproportionately pressured, advertently and inadvertently, which discourages them from pursuing STEM?

No, but the gender inverse is what you're implying. You also seem to be implying that girls are generally belittled in science class in comparison to men.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

...So how is theology-based government a good thing?

All government in the west is theology-based, I suggest you read Political Theology: Four Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty . Also check out my bois Bonald and Donoso Cortes

TIL all western government is theocratic and the first amendment (and other laws like it in other countries) doesn't exist.

[The Alma Mater]

All government in the west is theology-based, I suggest you read Political Theology: Four Chapters on the Concept of Sovereignty . Also check out my bois Bonald and Donoso Cortes

TIL all western government is theocratic and the first amendment (and other laws like it in other countries) doesn't exist.

And yet the King of the Netherlands rules "by the grace of God", the Chanchellor of Germany is a member of the CHRISTLICH Demokratische Union and the virgin Mary is formally Queen of Poland.

[Albrenia]

TIL all western government is theocratic and the first amendment (and other laws like it in other countries) doesn't exist.

And yet the King of the Netherlands rules "by the grace of God", the Chanchellor of Germany is a member of the CHRISTLICH Demokratische Union and the virgin Mary is formally Queen of Poland.

Is that all it takes for something to have an intrinsic theological base? Some words nobody bothered to change or traditions people like to keep around for old time's sake?