UK Labour Women Mass Resignation

[Albrenia]

Some considerations: the poll looks very interesting: Labour solution isn't getting the majority, just only 49%, while clear opposition is not so far, at 39%.
That's a very interesting result, especially given that NS forum users are mostly males - I suspect that there's a good chance that such percentages would be at least reversed in a forum with a reversed sex ratio.

Wouldn't a group which faces discrimination (such as women) be more supportive of another oppressed class (trans people), not less so?

Or do you mean women are inherently more bigoted than men? I'd disagree with that too, to be honest.

[Chessmistress]

Did chess actually post in this thread anymore after dropping the OP? A bit odd to just post and go.

It wasn't my intention, but I had to work this week.

Dont think she has no.

I do not use puppets to give multiple votes and manipulate the results, I never did, it isn't my style nor my attitude, I prefer to see real results.
Also: I don't have any puppet, actually my only puppet is that https://www.nationstates.net/nation=sister_sheila_j and it's used just only to gatekeeping the region - other puppets were used for roleplay and especially for military gameplay, but I don't have time for such things right now.

[Ifreann]

Some considerations: the poll looks very interesting: Labour solution isn't getting the majority, just only 49%, while clear opposition is not so far, at 39%.
That's a very interesting result, especially given that NS forum users are mostly males - I suspect that there's a good chance that such percentages would be at least reversed in a forum with a reversed sex ratio.

For a more relevant poll, consider the local elections that were just held. This mass resignation doesn't seem to have done Labour any harm. Maybe it would be different if England was majority female.

[Chessmistress]

Some considerations: the poll looks very interesting: Labour solution isn't getting the majority, just only 49%, while clear opposition is not so far, at 39%.
That's a very interesting result, especially given that NS forum users are mostly males - I suspect that there's a good chance that such percentages would be at least reversed in a forum with a reversed sex ratio.

Wouldn't a group which faces discrimination (such as women) be more supportive of another oppressed class (trans people), not less so?

Naturally, but being supportive = / = allowing in AWSL just only the ground of self-identification.

Or do you mean women are inherently more bigoted than men? I'd disagree with that too, to be honest.

No. I mean that, generally, men have no interest to defend AWSL - example:

Bear in mind, I oppose the All Women Short lists, so by extension I oppose the need for transwomen to have the surgery before they can be considered eligible to stand for party election under the All Women Short lists, or indeed to have completed any of the other steps along the way.

As you can see: allowing people within the AWSL just only on the ground of self-identification can be a mean to oppose (and even to destroy) AWSL.

[Albrenia]

Hmm... I wonder if there's a solution which doesn't require people to undergo a multiple-year spanning process to be identified as what they are, but can be a roadblock against misuse by angry dudebros.

[Chessmistress]

Some considerations: the poll looks very interesting: Labour solution isn't getting the majority, just only 49%, while clear opposition is not so far, at 39%.
That's a very interesting result, especially given that NS forum users are mostly males - I suspect that there's a good chance that such percentages would be at least reversed in a forum with a reversed sex ratio.

For a more relevant poll, consider the local elections that were just held. This mass resignation doesn't seem to have done Labour any harm. Maybe it would be different if England was majority female.

Most people who resigned aren't going to vote for Tories or UKIP, that would be crazy, indeed they're simply resigning from membership while still voting for Labour.
Do you know that opposition include even Mumsnet, right?
Check their messages
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rig ... d-with-GRA

I don't believe feminism is compatible with the GRA. The root of women's oppression is our biology. If men can be women, then you cannot fight that oppression

Most messages are pretty similar to that

[Ifreann]

For a more relevant poll, consider the local elections that were just held. This mass resignation doesn't seem to have done Labour any harm. Maybe it would be different if England was majority female.

Most people who resigned aren't going to vote for Tories or UKIP, that would be crazy, indeed they're simply resigning from membership while still voting for Labour.

That'll certainly show Labour what for.

Do you know that opposition include even Mumsnet, right?

I didn't know that, and don't care.

[Internationalist Bastard]

For a more relevant poll, consider the local elections that were just held. This mass resignation doesn't seem to have done Labour any harm. Maybe it would be different if England was majority female.

Most people who resigned aren't going to vote for Tories or UKIP, that would be crazy, indeed they're simply resigning from membership while still voting for Labour.
Do you know that opposition include even Mumsnet, right?
Check their messages
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rig ... d-with-GRA

I don't believe feminism is compatible with the GRA. The root of women's oppression is our biology. If men can be women, then you cannot fight that oppression

Most messages are pretty similar to that

And yet, in spite of being a trans woman yes I used that phrasing intentionally, I deal with women problems on top of trans problems

[Albrenia]

I don't believe feminism is compatible with the GRA. The root of women's oppression is our biology. If men can be women, then you cannot fight that oppression

Most messages are pretty similar to that

As uncomfortable as it may be, trans people do exist - one cannot handwave away people because they create a problem for ideology. Men (although one could argue they're never men to begin with, but always trans) can become women.

[Chessmistress]

Most messages are pretty similar to that

As uncomfortable as it may be, trans people do exist - one cannot handwave away people because they create a problem for ideology. Men (although one could argue they're never men to begin with, but always trans) can become women.

The point here is when they become women.
I stated, always, that I call them women after a complete transition, and that such transition should be provided for free through public funded healthcare, so calling me "bigoted" can't be productive since I'm a good ally and not an enemy, and you can see that even here we have a large minority, 39%, basically sharing my view.

[Internationalist Bastard]

As uncomfortable as it may be, trans people do exist - one cannot handwave away people because they create a problem for ideology. Men (although one could argue they're never men to begin with, but always trans) can become women.

The point here is when they become women.
I stated, always, that I call them women after a complete transition, and that such transition should be provided for free through public funded healthcare, so calling me "bigoted" can't be productive since I'm a good ally and not an enemy, and you can see that even here we have a large minority, 39%, basically sharing my view.

A good allys support isn’t based on a specific condition

[Purpelia]

The point here is when they become women.
I stated, always, that I call them women after a complete transition, and that such transition should be provided for free through public funded healthcare, so calling me "bigoted" can't be productive since I'm a good ally and not an enemy, and you can see that even here we have a large minority, 39%, basically sharing my view.

A good allys support isn’t based on a specific condition

An ally is not the same as a servant.

And frankly I agree with Chessmistress here. This whole identify as anything you want fad has gone on for far enough and is doing a lot of harm. If you want to be something you are not than go transform your self into that something. If nothing else this will show your commitment and thus prove you deserving of being given what you want.

[Sovaal]

As uncomfortable as it may be, trans people do exist - one cannot handwave away people because they create a problem for ideology. Men (although one could argue they're never men to begin with, but always trans) can become women.

The point here is when they become women.
I stated, always, that I call them women after a complete transition, and that such transition should be provided for free through public funded healthcare, so calling me "bigoted" can't be productive since I'm a good ally and not an enemy, and you can see that even here we have a large minority, 39%, basically sharing my view.

I don’t see how other people sharing your view really matters.

[Internationalist Bastard]

A good allys support isn’t based on a specific condition

An ally is not the same as a servant.

Only supporting someone after they get what they want, and that ting being something many people never get due to genuine problems with the process?

[Purpelia]

The point here is when they become women.
I stated, always, that I call them women after a complete transition, and that such transition should be provided for free through public funded healthcare, so calling me "bigoted" can't be productive since I'm a good ally and not an enemy, and you can see that even here we have a large minority, 39%, basically sharing my view.

I don’t see how other people sharing your view really matters.

For the same reason you think your views matter at all. All of us (presumably) live in free societies where each of our opinions are equally worthless and insignificant and only gain significance through acceptance by our peers to a sufficient degree to start forcing the government to behave as if they were truth.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Wow. I didn't know there were so many TERFs in the UKLP.

[Ifreann]

As uncomfortable as it may be, trans people do exist - one cannot handwave away people because they create a problem for ideology. Men (although one could argue they're never men to begin with, but always trans) can become women.

The point here is when they become women.

It all comes down to how many shoes they own.

[Internationalist Bastard]

The point here is when they become women.

It all comes down to how many shoes they own.

*only owns one pair of boots*
Shit
Chess your right I’m not a woman

[Ifreann]

It all comes down to how many shoes they own.

*only owns one pair of boots*
Shit
Chess your right I’m not a woman

Nothing a shopping montage can't fix.

You may need several hundred dollars.

[Sovaal]

I don’t see how other people sharing your view really matters.

For the same reason you think your views matter at all. All of us (presumably) live in free societies where each of our opinions are equally worthless and insignificant and only gain significance through acceptance by our peers to a sufficient degree to start forcing the government to behave as if they were truth.

Eh, my views don’t really match up with many of my ‘peers’ so really i don’t care about how many people agree with a view.

[Hirota]

No. I mean that, generally, men have no interest to defend AWSL - example:

Bear in mind, I oppose the All Women Short lists, so by extension I oppose the need for transwomen to have the surgery before they can be considered eligible to stand for party election under the All Women Short lists, or indeed to have completed any of the other steps along the way.

As you can see: allowing people within the AWSL just only on the ground of self-identification can be a mean to oppose (and even to destroy) AWSL.

No, I want to "destroy" AWSL because - like I already said - it is patronising, regressive, undemocratic and implies most women are incapable of reaching political office without handouts. The fact it would also help stamp out transphobic bigotry is a bonus.

[Olivaero]

Frankly they can fuck off into the political abyss and never come back. Trans people are easily one of the most discriminated against minorities in the west. Imagine thinking that empowering that group would be wrong. Identifiying yourself as trans really only makes your life harder from anyone's perspective so it's really just transphobia by another name to try and paint these people as "fakes" Why would anyone wilfully make their life harder just to what... stand on a short list? It seems a lot like the bathroom argument in the US tbh.

[Imperializt Russia]

Wow. I didn't know there were so many TERFs in the UKLP.

300 women (claimed to) resign their membership.

Labour has significantly over 300,000 members.
Just sayin.

[Imperializt Russia]

No. I mean that, generally, men have no interest to defend AWSL - example:


As you can see: allowing people within the AWSL just only on the ground of self-identification can be a mean to oppose (and even to destroy) AWSL.

No, I want to "destroy" AWSL because - like I already said - it is patronising, regressive, undemocratic and implies most women are incapable of reaching political office without handouts. The fact it would also help stamp out transphobic bigotry is a bonus.

Women fail to reach political office for a long list of reasons. Your phrasing makes it sound like you believe this is due to personal factors and choices - not running, not being good enough, doubting their own self-confidence.

25% of all women MPs ever elected to the UK Parliament are currently sitting MPs.
It's almost like there are centuries of imbalances in society that we have only recently begun to try and redress.

[Hirota]

Wow. I didn't know there were so many TERFs in the UKLP.

300 women (claimed to) resign their membership.

Labour has significantly over 300,000 members.
Just sayin.

Almost double that, if estimates are correct.

As of January 2018, Labour had 552,000 members

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