UK Labour Women Mass Resignation

[Sovaal]

Should I feel bad for these women or something?

[MERIZoC]

I’ve been a consistent supporter of trans people my whole life, but please, cry more

I'm not the one who adheres to an ideology which makes it impossible to reconcile with allowing trans people to actually alleviate gender dysphoria.

I have no trouble believing you believe you support trans people. But you advocate for an ideology which would actively harm us, even if that is supposedly not its intent. How is safe HRT supposed to be done (much less surgery) in a social system which considers even the use of fire too technologically advanced to be allowed?

You’ve refused to engage in good faith many times in the past so I’m not sure why I should bother explaining again, especially as a thread jack. Feel free to read my responses to your old posts where you brought the issue up to get mad at it.

[Samnoreg]

No great loss. TERFs are hardly the most polite of sorts anywho, labour's better off for it.

[New Owca]

Why? If I identified as Finnish, that wouldn't make me a Finn

I addressed this.
viewtopic.php?p=33943220#p33943220

Maybe I'm blind or maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see that being addressed

[Vassenor]

I addressed this.
viewtopic.php?p=33943220#p33943220

Maybe I'm blind or maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see that being addressed

In what way does it not address your odd hypothetical?

[Imperializt Russia]

I addressed this.
viewtopic.php?p=33943220#p33943220

Maybe I'm blind or maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see that being addressed

1) "self-identification" is not a matter of, say, me, putting my hand up and saying "Please call me Jemima from now on, for I am a woman", no more than I could "self-identify" in that matter as Romani, Christian or Wicca (yes, those four examples are intentionally not equivalent).
Self-identity is - I would argue as a complete outsider, for I need identify as nothing more than presumed - a fundamental reclamation of your identity.

I would expect nothing less than revilement if I (as I am) seriously turned up at a "women's" event and kicked up a stink about not being let in "even though I'm Jemima now". That's provocateur-level shit.
Self-identity still requires, as it were, "backing up", though the way to back it up is obviously not submitting to a battery of questions under oath. Do I have a dysphoria diagnosis? Am I on therapy or a waiting list for same? Counselling? Do I engage in any significant queering?
So, I argue, not a real issue. To claim it is just legitimises the unarguably transphobic view that trans-friendly bathrooms are "allowing men into women's bathrooms" where they'll sexually predate on, I dunno, everyone I guess. Even though men who are sexual predators already enter women's bathrooms to sexually predate on women.

---

3) Based on my points argued in (1) then yes, "self-identity" is valid on its own merits for a "man" (I'd do more airquotes but I don't want another spam ban) who "identifies as a woman" (in reality, a transwoman) being allowed onto a women-only shortlist.
After all, note that a transwoman being selected onto a women-only shortlist means there either were not enough 'women' members to stand for a post, or that the transwoman accrued far more votes than any 'women' who did stand against them.

[Kramanica]

lmao

Always fun when the left eats itself.

[New Emeline]

lmao

Always fun when the left eats itself.

it's not as if the right is entirely unified

[Imperializt Russia]

lmao

Always fun when the left eats itself.

This is literally one in one thousand Labour members.

[Vassenor]

lmao

Always fun when the left eats itself.

Less than one percent of the party membership quitting is hardly "the left [eating] itself".

I get the feeling the GOP has lost more registered members over Trump's antics. Is that a sign of the Right eating itself?

[Pope Joan]

lmao

Always fun when the left eats itself.

it's not as if the right is entirely unified

Since the fall of the iron curtain we have seen the rise of more small states out of what had been larger ones.
I wonder if the same is now happening to parties?
There is some serious division emerging in the US as well, within both parties.

[Tagete]

I'm enough favourable to self identification, after a mental and medical confirmation.

[Sovaal]

I'm enough favourable to self identification, after a mental and medical confirmation.

Confirmation?

[Grenartia]

I'm enough favourable to self identification, after a mental and medical confirmation.

Confirmation?

Read: Gatekeeping, and even then, only after SRS.

[Asherahan]

Oh fuck chess is still on NSG.

By the way this poll sucks.

And to answer your question. If they have had a sex change then yes if not then no.

[Vassenor]

Oh fuck chess is still on NSG.

By the way this poll sucks.

And to answer your question. If they have had a sex change then yes if not then no.

Confirmation?

Read: Gatekeeping, and even then, only after SRS.

Especially given that some transwomen either do not or cannot access SRS.

[Asherahan]

Oh fuck chess is still on NSG.

By the way this poll sucks.

And to answer your question. If they have had a sex change then yes if not then no.

Read: Gatekeeping, and even then, only after SRS.

Especially given that some transwomen either do not or cannot access SRS.

Scoliosis Research Society?

[Albrenia]

Did chess actually post in this thread anymore after dropping the OP? A bit odd to just post and go.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Did chess actually post in this thread anymore after dropping the OP? A bit odd to just post and go.

Dont think she has no.

[Albrenia]

As it is, my opinion's pretty much the same now as it was before about the TERFS resigning. Good riddance to hypocritical bigots.

[Vassenor]

Especially given that some transwomen either do not or cannot access SRS.

Scoliosis Research Society?

No.

[Hirota]

Scoliosis Research Society?

No.

On a global scale that's probably true, some transfolk cannot access SRS. Is that true in the UK? I know it's available on the NHS, I've got no idea of the waiting times but imagine if you have the money there is always the private option.

Bear in mind, I oppose the All Women Short lists, so by extension I oppose the need for transwomen to have the surgery before they can be considered eligible to stand for party election under the All Women Short lists, or indeed to have completed any of the other steps along the way. I ask out of interest, probably interest that would be better answered in the appropriate mega thread, but still at least semi-relevant here.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Olthar wasn't explicitly calling you a coward. You have explicitly called her subhuman. One is against the rules and the other isn't. *** Warning for flaming ***.

EDIT: Gendering

Ah, so you picked the coward's response: trying to appease the vocal minority while failing to be subtle. Good choice.

You called someone subhuman, which is flaming, i.e against the rules.

There is no "appeasing" or any other nonsense going on.

[Chessmistress]

Some considerations: the poll looks very interesting: Labour solution isn't getting the majority, just only 49%, while clear opposition is not so far, at 39%.
That's a very interesting result, especially given that NS forum users are mostly males - I suspect that there's a good chance that such percentages would be at least reversed in a forum with a reversed sex ratio.

[Hirota]

Some considerations: the poll looks very interesting: Labour solution isn't getting the majority, just only 49%, while clear opposition is not so far, at 39%.
That's a very interesting result, especially given that NS forum users are mostly males - I suspect that there's a good chance that such percentages would be at least reversed in a forum with a reversed sex ratio.

If you had a better, less misleading poll, you'd find more valuable answers. But I'm sure you knew that already, and decided the only way to get even scant support would be in a shit poll in the first place