RWDT XII - 12 Step program to get Right.

[Ceolophysia]

True, but the type of socialism they advocated seems at odds with fascist syndicalist thought.
And anyway, this discussion is pointless - the right is characterized by support of hierarchy and the left not so; contrary to popular belief, it's not necessarily about economics. Due to this, fascism is quite obviously far right.

Except that fascism isn't actually that hierarchical. Fascists are essentially centrist populists on crack.

If they were actually populist they would support democracy.

[Diopolis]

Tag, you're it Ladies, Gentlemen, Ruffians, Trolls and Children of the RWDT. I have a question: how do you define the state? In many right wing(and a few left wing) models, the state does not have a monopoly on the use of force- party, church, and often family institutions are granted the legitimate right to the use of force in some circumstances.

That's sorta a misunderstanding of what "monopoly on legitimate force" means. Weber's definition means that the state has the ultimate right to decide the legitimacy of different kinds of force; all legitimate force outside the state still rests on the state recognizing that force as legitimate, under Weber's idea of it anyway.

And in most far right ideologies and paradigms, the state does not have that right exclusively.

[Albrenia]

Tag, you're it Ladies, Gentlemen, Ruffians, Trolls and Children of the RWDT. I have a question: how do you define the state? In many right wing(and a few left wing) models, the state does not have a monopoly on the use of force- party, church, and often family institutions are granted the legitimate right to the use of force in some circumstances.

gas, liquid, solid, plasma

You know how hard it was to resist making that joke?

[New Emeline]

gas, liquid, solid, plasma

Source?

https://www.nyu.edu/pages/mathmol/textb ... atter.html

[Zanera]

Source?

https://www.nyu.edu/pages/mathmol/textb ... atter.html

I did not know this about the solids. I'll never try to liquefy everything again.

[Valgora]

True, but the type of socialism they advocated seems at odds with fascist syndicalist thought.
And anyway, this discussion is pointless - the right is characterized by support of hierarchy and the left not so; contrary to popular belief, it's not necessarily about economics. Due to this, fascism is quite obviously far right.

First of all, that would make Stalinists and Ancaps centrist because they both like some hierarchies but not all, even though they are complete opposites.

Also, there are more factors than just social hierarchies, there is also capitalism (of course), cultural homogeneity, conservative values, private property, and personal responsibility, but the definition is probably pretty subjective, so I pose the question to all RWDT'ers:

How do you define "Right-Wing"?

Pro-capitalism, ranging from quite a lot of regulation to no regulation.
This may be the best answer I have for this question.
Being pro-hierarchy, but only certain hierarchies such a social hierarchies and hierarchies in jobs (I guess that's close enough).

Obviously, right-wing ain't just authoritarian or libertarian just like the left.

[New Emeline]

https://www.nyu.edu/pages/mathmol/textb ... atter.html

I did not know this about the solids. I'll never try to liquefy everything again.

Well, see, this isn't a case of solid vs. liquid really, but which works in certain contexts.

What annoys me the most is how plasma is constantly dismissed as "not a real state of matter" or a "utopian ideal". Ticks me off.

[Zanera]

I did not know this about the solids. I'll never try to liquefy everything again.

Well, see, this isn't a case of solid vs. liquid really, but which works in certain contexts.

What annoys me the most is how plasma is constantly dismissed as "not a real state of matter" or a "utopian ideal". Ticks me off.

We must superheat the weapons of war and make new arms with which to defeat the Enemy.

[New Emeline]

Well, see, this isn't a case of solid vs. liquid really, but which works in certain contexts.

What annoys me the most is how plasma is constantly dismissed as "not a real state of matter" or a "utopian ideal". Ticks me off.

We must superheat the weapons of war and make new arms with which to defeat the Enemy.

or we could try to find absolute zero :^)

[Diopolis]

Except that fascism isn't actually that hierarchical. Fascists are essentially centrist populists on crack.

If they were actually populist they would support democracy.

A fascism developing in the modern times probably would, but fascism originated in a setting where democracy was more of an intellectual idea and the working classes did not understand it.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Why is the RWDT filled with leftists?

[Diopolis]

First of all, that would make Stalinists and Ancaps centrist because they both like some hierarchies but not all, even though they are complete opposites.

Also, there are more factors than just social hierarchies, there is also capitalism (of course), cultural homogeneity, conservative values, private property, and personal responsibility, but the definition is probably pretty subjective, so I pose the question to all RWDT'ers:

How do you define "Right-Wing"?

Pro-capitalism, ranging from quite a lot of regulation to no regulation.
This may be the best answer I have for this question.
Being pro-hierarchy, but only certain hierarchies such a social hierarchies and hierarchies in jobs (I guess that's close enough).

Obviously, right-wing ain't just authoritarian or libertarian just like the left.

So throne and altar conservatives(who are largely anti-capitalist, or at least skeptical of capitalism) are leftists?

[New Emeline]

Why is the RWDT filled with leftists?

what are you talking about, i'm not leftist

[Ceolophysia]

If they were actually populist they would support democracy.

A fascism developing in the modern times probably would, but fascism originated in a setting where democracy was more of an intellectual idea and the working classes did not understand it.

Does fascism not require a dictator and total state control? I believe that is contradictory to the concept of democracy or even to the concept of a democratic republic.

[Ceolophysia]

So throne and altar conservatives(who are largely anti-capitalist, or at least skeptical of capitalism) are leftists?

They believe in social hierarchy, which is part of rightism, but no, they aren't the most right wing ideology.

[Rostavykhan]

Why is the RWDT filled with leftists?

This thread is now property of NAZBOL GANG.

[Zanera]

We must superheat the weapons of war and make new arms with which to defeat the Enemy.

or we could try to find absolute zero :^)

Absolute zero is the realm of pirates and deadly beasts brought to life by ancient gods that carry a bitter hatred of Mankind.

[Ceolophysia]

Why is the RWDT filled with leftists?

'Cuz it ain't meant to be an echo chamber. I'd prefer to debate and not just agree.

[Valgora]

Pro-capitalism, ranging from quite a lot of regulation to no regulation.
This may be the best answer I have for this question.
Being pro-hierarchy, but only certain hierarchies such a social hierarchies and hierarchies in jobs (I guess that's close enough).

Obviously, right-wing ain't just authoritarian or libertarian just like the left.

So throne and altar conservatives(who are largely anti-capitalist, or at least skeptical of capitalism) are leftists?

What are throne and altar conservatives?

[Jelmatt]

So throne and altar conservatives(who are largely anti-capitalist, or at least skeptical of capitalism) are leftists?

They believe in social hierarchy, which is part of rightism, but no, they aren't the most right wing ideology.

I'd say throne-and-altar conservatives are more right-wing than, say, classical liberals, despite the latter being far more in favor of laissez-faire market economies than the former.

So throne and altar conservatives(who are largely anti-capitalist, or at least skeptical of capitalism) are leftists?

What are throne and altar conservatives?

Old-school, monarchist, pro-clerical conservatives.

[Aeken]

If they were actually populist they would support democracy.

A fascism developing in the modern times probably would, but fascism originated in a setting where democracy was more of an intellectual idea and the working classes did not understand it.

I doubt they would want democracy. Populists can want democratic regimes as much as anti-democratic ones. With the rise in authoritarianism today, maintaining democracy would seem like a silly move.

[Ceolophysia]

They believe in social hierarchy, which is part of rightism, but no, they aren't the most right wing ideology.

I'd say throne-and-altar conservatives are more right-wing than, say, classical liberals, despite the latter being far more in favor of laissez-faire market economies than the former.

Explain.

[Diopolis]

So throne and altar conservatives(who are largely anti-capitalist, or at least skeptical of capitalism) are leftists?

What are throne and altar conservatives?

Old-school monarchists. The French revolution was an abomination, the state does not have a monopoly on the use of force(church and state have either a duopoly or church has a monopoly), hereditary social status, absolute monarchy, no pluralism, etc.

[Valgora]

They believe in social hierarchy, which is part of rightism, but no, they aren't the most right wing ideology.

I'd say throne-and-altar conservatives are more right-wing than, say, classical liberals, despite the latter being far more in favor of laissez-faire market economies than the former.

What are throne and altar conservatives?

Old-school, monarchist, pro-clerical conservatives.

Oh...
I'd say center-right, I guess.

[Jelmatt]

I'd say throne-and-altar conservatives are more right-wing than, say, classical liberals, despite the latter being far more in favor of laissez-faire market economies than the former.

Explain.

The spectrum was literally defined with throne-and-altar conservatives on the right and classical liberals on the left (well, the latter were accompanied by radical republicans and what we'd see as more social liberals, too, but still, classical liberals were at least seen as the center-left).