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RWDT XII - 12 Step program to get Right.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Kievan/Novrogrodian/Russian/Soviet leader was the greatest?

Rurik
12
6%
Vladimir I the Great
12
6%
Alexander Nevsky
9
4%
Ivan I of Moscow
3
1%
Ivan IV the Terrible
23
11%
Boris Godunov
1
0%
Michael Romanov
2
1%
Peter I The Great
66
31%
Lenin
50
24%
Iosif Stalin
32
15%
 
Total votes : 210

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:19 am

Reikoku wrote:If Förster-Nietzsche had been trying to make her brother look like an Anti-Semite, then why did she unequivocally state that he was not?

My brother was never an Anti-Semite, in addition, he was never completely convinced that Germany should be placed above everything; he always recognized that the Jews had done a great service for the intellectual movements in Germany, especially at the beginning of the century.


Perhaps you will wish to tell me where I said she was trying to make him look like an antisemite?

She was trying to turn his philosophy into something antisemites would like, however.
There were actually instances in Nietzsche's life where it would have been easy to construe him as Anti-Semitic, even one of his close friends (Franz Overbeck) regarded him as Anti-Semitic to some degree. But his sister always insisted that this was due to Wagner's influence at the time, rather than what Nietzsche himself actually believed. What she wrote in personal correspondence also doesn't make her sound like an Anti-Semite.

Only the persecutions of the Jews that Minister Goebbels is wrenched from our excellent Chancellor seems to me a bad blunder and is very unpleasant for me. I am certain that it has not been pleasant for our splendid Chancellor Adolf Hitler, and that he will do everything to ameliorate this mistake of his fellow party members.

It seems more likely that she was just a spineless opportunist who went with the prevailing winds of the time, erasing and rewriting her history as it suited her. Or, to quote NIetzsche on her, "I have no strength to defend myself against such poisonous insects."
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Reikoku
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Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:46 am

Conserative Morality wrote:Perhaps you will wish to tell me where I said she was trying to make him look like an antisemite?


Where you quoted an article which literally makes that claim.
Conserative Morality wrote:She was trying to turn his philosophy into something antisemites would like, however.


She wouldn't have needed to. Nietzsche had already lamented Zarathustra being praised in Anti-Semitic papers, and her own outspoken Anti-Anti-Semitism makes me skeptical of the claims expressed in the article you quoted.
Conserative Morality wrote:It seems more likely that she was just a spineless opportunist who went with the prevailing winds of the time, erasing and rewriting her history as it suited her. Or, to quote NIetzsche on her, "I have no strength to defend myself against such poisonous insects."


Or, more accurately, to quote Erich Podach: “Today, since no one stands up for her any longer, people have made it easy for themselves: the honorary doctor Förster-Nietzsche and she alone bears the guilt for everything.”

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Hakons
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Posts: 5619
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:47 am

Genivaria wrote:
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:
Ah, well that’s a Protestant thing tbh. The Church has been denouncing the idea of witchcraft for ages.

Not really, many of those killed were sentenced to burn by Catholics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier_witch_trials
The persecutions started in the diocese of Trier in 1581 and reached the city itself in 1587, where it was to lead to the death of about 368 people, and was as such perhaps the biggest mass execution in Europe in peace time

In 1581, Johann von Schönenberg was appointed archbishop of the independent diocese of Trier. Schönenberg greatly admired the order of the Jesuits in which he was "wonderfully addicted"; he built them a college, and as a part of his efforts to demonstrate his convictions, he ordered the purging of three groups in society; first he rooted out the Protestants, then the Jews, and then the witches: three stereotypes of nonconformity. He was the one responsible for the massacres of Trier which, because of his initiative, support and patronage, became "of an importance quite unique in the history of witchcraft".


Also the Malleus Maleficarum was written by a member of the Catholic Church.


Yeah, the reformation did lead to a lot of violence and religious tension, especially since politics and the regular feudal struggles were mixed in as well.

On an unrelated note, this makes me disagree that Islam "needs a reformation." The reformation didn't reduce zealous-ness and resulted in a few centuries of continental religious conflict.
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

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Hakons
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Posts: 5619
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakons » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:56 am

Herskerstad wrote:
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:
Ah, well that’s a Protestant thing tbh. The Church has been denouncing the idea of witchcraft for ages.


Pft, if we are to just gently sweep under the rug the Catholic witch trials or inquisitions, sure.


Witches and the like were always part of European folklore. Learned people, like lawyers and priests, discouraged such speculation. Consequently, belief in witchcraft was widespread but there were very few convictions and punishments for witchcraft. The modern idea that witchcraft trials were held on a regular basis is largely just that, an idea and nothing more.
“All elements of the national life must be made to drink in the Life which proceedeth from Him: legislation, political institutions, education, marriage and family life, capital and labour.” —Pope Leo XIII

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Canadensia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 715
Founded: Apr 11, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Canadensia » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:05 am

Hakons wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Not really, many of those killed were sentenced to burn by Catholics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier_witch_trials



Also the Malleus Maleficarum was written by a member of the Catholic Church.


Yeah, the reformation did lead to a lot of violence and religious tension, especially since politics and the regular feudal struggles were mixed in as well.

On an unrelated note, this makes me disagree that Islam "needs a reformation." The reformation didn't reduce zealous-ness and resulted in a few centuries of continental religious conflict.


Frankly, Islam already had an early mini-Reformation in the form of the Mutazilites during the height of the Abbasid Caliphate. They more or less ran the show as far as theology was concerned for the better part of two centuries, but ultimately fell out of grace with the caliphs and were replaced by Al-Ghazali and his intellectual ilk (that is to say the forebears of the more rigid and fundamentalist Islamic theological tradition that's generally the current mainstream).

Islam had a reformation, it just withered on the vine.

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Reikoku
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Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:31 am

Fahran wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Is Herr Goethe correct?

I believe so, yes. We must by necessity draw on the oldest themes of epic poetry and persist in pursuing and elaborating on them to effect the elevation of the human soul.


I agree, that's one reason I recently started reading the Man'yōshū.

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Bienenhalde
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Posts: 5983
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:32 am

Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?

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The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:38 am

Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?

This is too funny. Please be sarcasm... Anyway, this has been Alex Jones, thank you for listening.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
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Conserative Morality
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Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:38 am

Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials.

But they don't. Medieval European Witchcraft trials weren't covered in any of my public school classes; just the ridiculous Salem Witch Trials.
But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?

... what
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
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Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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Reikoku
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Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:44 am

Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?


Dio, give Bienenhalde his account back please.

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Fahran
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19426
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:45 am

Reikoku wrote:Dio, give Bienenhalde his account back please.

Top banter. :lol:

Reikoku wrote:I agree, that's one reason I recently started reading the Man'yōshū.

How do you like it thus far?
Last edited by Fahran on Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Then it was as if all the beauty of Ardha, devastating in its color and form and movement, recalled to him, more and more, the First Music, though reflected dimly. Thus Alnair wept bitterly, lamenting the notes which had begun to fade from his memory. He, who had composed the world's first poem upon spying a gazelle and who had played the world's first song upon encountering a dove perched upon a moringa, in beauty, now found only suffering and longing. Such it must be for all among the djinn, souls of flame and ash slowly dwindling to cinders in the elder days of the world."

- Song of the Fallen Star

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Reikoku
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Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
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Postby Reikoku » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:55 am

Fahran wrote:
Reikoku wrote:I agree, that's one reason I recently started reading the Man'yōshū.

How do you like it thus far?


Quite well, its an excellent way to absorb the spirit of the age, due to the poets being from all walks of life, in contrast to the more distant Kojiki and Nihongi which were written for the imperial court. The Epicurean elements surprised me, however. This being several centuries after the introduction of Buddhism.

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Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36761
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:47 am

Good afternoon to those in the superior eastern standard time zone, and to the rest of those on nation states in time zones that don't matter. I have come to the conclusion that after some time thinking about it that nations are inherently degenerate. I am of the opinion that the future of humanity lies not within nations reaching for the stars, but within one global administration focused on "one regime, one leader, and one ideology". Now how will this administration come about you may ask future citizens? Well not by peaceful means of course since humanity is too divided and weak for that.

Instead, I propose waiting for after the inevitable die-off brought on by an apocalyptic chain reaction partially brought to start by political ideologues and others. Only parts of the planet will be beyond salvageable and be habitable for new city-state communities to be carved out and serve various purposes to advance the human species. Anything beyond of course will be left to rot, but people will be allowed to come voluntarily, and assigned a role within the state. Anyone who chooses not to come can stay in the "unadministered" zones, and most likely devolve into petty nations fighting one another, but the regime won't recognize them at all. This new order will come at the costs of peoples freedom, but being able to live, and enjoy a quality of life rather than as a warring tribe benefits everyone.

On the matters of the global military, I have thought of the issue, and believe sending valuable human lives back out into the wasteland is absurd. Instead I propose a unified military command handled by robotic overseers with human handlers only venturing outside to bring in new residents, and of course rescue state assets. Borders won't be much of an issue in travel between the communities since citizens of the global regime will be free to travel as they wish within reason. As for economic matters, people will be free to do as they wish in regards to "wants" since "needs" will be covered.


This is before I post my thread in NSG. Does anyone have any comments they want to contribute to it?
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:54 am

Benuty wrote:
Good afternoon to those in the superior eastern standard time zone, and to the rest of those on nation states in time zones that don't matter. I have come to the conclusion that after some time thinking about it that nations are inherently degenerate. I am of the opinion that the future of humanity lies not within nations reaching for the stars, but within one global administration focused on "one regime, one leader, and one ideology". Now how will this administration come about you may ask future citizens? Well not by peaceful means of course since humanity is too divided and weak for that.

Instead, I propose waiting for after the inevitable die-off brought on by an apocalyptic chain reaction partially brought to start by political ideologues and others. Only parts of the planet will be beyond salvageable and be habitable for new city-state communities to be carved out and serve various purposes to advance the human species. Anything beyond of course will be left to rot, but people will be allowed to come voluntarily, and assigned a role within the state. Anyone who chooses not to come can stay in the "unadministered" zones, and most likely devolve into petty nations fighting one another, but the regime won't recognize them at all. This new order will come at the costs of peoples freedom, but being able to live, and enjoy a quality of life rather than as a warring tribe benefits everyone.

On the matters of the global military, I have thought of the issue, and believe sending valuable human lives back out into the wasteland is absurd. Instead I propose a unified military command handled by robotic overseers with human handlers only venturing outside to bring in new residents, and of course rescue state assets. Borders won't be much of an issue in travel between the communities since citizens of the global regime will be free to travel as they wish within reason. As for economic matters, people will be free to do as they wish in regards to "wants" since "needs" will be covered.


This is before I post my thread in NSG. Does anyone have any comments they want to contribute to it?

Smells like Popery
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Sovaal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Benuty wrote:
This is before I post my thread in NSG. Does anyone have any comments they want to contribute to it?

Smells like Popery

With the funny hats and everything.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Benuty
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Posts: 36761
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:57 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Benuty wrote:
This is before I post my thread in NSG. Does anyone have any comments they want to contribute to it?

Smells like Popery

Parkus you know better than this.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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The Parkus Empire
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Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:00 pm

Benuty wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Smells like Popery

Parkus you know better than this.

Well if you want my honest opinion, you'll have to put some questions in there and define a clear topic for debate, or else the Gesta--er, moderators, will lock it for being bloggy.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
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Benuty
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Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:03 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Benuty wrote:Parkus you know better than this.

Well if you want my honest opinion, you'll have to put some questions in there and define a clear topic for debate, or else the Gesta--er, moderators, will lock it for being bloggy.

Well, its a draft.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60407
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:28 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?

This is why you hire Magical Girls to deal with your witch infestation. We got dis.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
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Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60407
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:30 pm

Reikoku wrote:
Fahran wrote:How do you like it thus far?


Quite well, its an excellent way to absorb the spirit of the age, due to the poets being from all walks of life, in contrast to the more distant Kojiki and Nihongi which were written for the imperial court. The Epicurean elements surprised me, however. This being several centuries after the introduction of Buddhism.

Ooh, poetry! Is this something I can find online?
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

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Aellex
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Posts: 4635
Founded: Apr 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aellex » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:24 pm

Luminesa wrote:This is why you hire Magical Girls to deal with your witch infestation. We got dis.

Ah, I knew you couldn't possibly hate the plushy cutie, after all! Good to see you've come to see the way! :^)
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Fahran
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19426
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:32 pm

Luminesa wrote:Ooh, poetry! Is this something I can find online?

I've found a couple online texts.

Source.
"Then it was as if all the beauty of Ardha, devastating in its color and form and movement, recalled to him, more and more, the First Music, though reflected dimly. Thus Alnair wept bitterly, lamenting the notes which had begun to fade from his memory. He, who had composed the world's first poem upon spying a gazelle and who had played the world's first song upon encountering a dove perched upon a moringa, in beauty, now found only suffering and longing. Such it must be for all among the djinn, souls of flame and ash slowly dwindling to cinders in the elder days of the world."

- Song of the Fallen Star

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Diopolis
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Posts: 17601
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:56 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?

In all likelihood most convicted witches were innocent of the charges against them, but the percentage of actual witches and sorcerers burned was undoubtedly higher than in the general population.
Reikoku wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?


Dio, give Bienenhalde his account back please.

Top... kek? Is that correct?
Last edited by Diopolis on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Texas nationalist, 3rd positionist, radical social conservative, post-liberal.

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Northern Davincia
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Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:05 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Our education system, which is controlled by liberals and leftists, teaches that hundreds or even thousands of "innocent" people were killed as a result of witchcraft trials. But were these people really "innocent", or is that just what they want you to think? What if their really were witches and sorcerers? What if witches and sorcerers are behind the New World Order?

This is why you hire Magical Girls to deal with your witch infestation. We got dis.

At least until one of you is trapped in a time paradox and becomes a demon.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60407
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:28 pm

Aellex wrote:
Luminesa wrote:This is why you hire Magical Girls to deal with your witch infestation. We got dis.

Ah, I knew you couldn't possibly hate the plushy cutie, after all! Good to see you've come to see the way! :^)

Delet this, the plushie played no role in this! >.>
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

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